Thread: T'Oblique, or not t'oblique, that is the question

abs are made in the kitchen so your diet is key. lower body compound movements incorporate your abs so it's not absolutely necessary. however, weighted exercises won't hurt a couple times a week if you wanna throw them in your program. working them will make them larger, not tighter. tighter = diet.

I think you should work your core musculature whether or not it significantly increases the size of the muscles or not. Additional core training is valuable to any trainee who performs exercises that load the trunk.

So you guys are basically saying that because i'm bulking, I'm "fucked"?

Originally Posted by Flex

So you guys are basically saying that because i'm bulking, I'm "fucked"?

If your goal is to increase their definition, then you need to focus on cutting fat. Obviously, this isn't going to happen while you're bulking. If you're juicing, then it might be possible, but diet will definitely help either way.

If your goal is to maintain a slim waist while you add muscle mass, then not training your obliques is an option, but they will still grow to some degree. I would venture to say it is completely impossible to remove your obliques from the equation in the vast majority of exercises.

Of course, I think the added injury protection you get from developing a strong core outweighs the vanity aspect. This is true especially considering that inherently slow-twitch muscles have less propensity for hypertrophy, therefore making this less of an issue here. But hey, to each his own.

Originally Posted by CowPimp

If your goal is to increase their definition, then you need to focus on cutting fat.

Then riddle me this...

I've been doing "twists" or whatever the hell you call them for about 2 weeks now, and already I can see vast improvement on my obliques.

I'm assuming that's b/c I'm building (some) muscle there and b/c I'm already relatively lean?

Originally Posted by Flex

Then riddle me this...

I've been doing "twists" or whatever the hell you call them for about 2 weeks now, and already I can see vast improvement on my obliques.

I'm assuming that's b/c I'm building (some) muscle there and b/c I'm already relatively lean?

Oblique twists was going to be my suggestion. You DO NOT want to do side bends, because they will get bigger. The twisting motion is the only way to go. Like the other posts said, diet is the key, but obliques can be improved without making them bigger.

Originally Posted by Flex

Then riddle me this...

I've been doing "twists" or whatever the hell you call them for about 2 weeks now, and already I can see vast improvement on my obliques.

I'm assuming that's b/c I'm building (some) muscle there and b/c I'm already relatively lean?

Yes, you have probably increased the amount of muscle mass there. It could also be psychosomatic to some degree.

Originally Posted by Pedigree

Oblique twists was going to be my suggestion. You DO NOT want to do side bends, because they will get bigger. The twisting motion is the only way to go. Like the other posts said, diet is the key, but obliques can be improved without making them bigger.

You can't spot reduce fat, muscles either grow or shrink.

Originally Posted by CowPimp

It could also be psychosomatic to some degree.

It's def. not psychological.

A little while ago they weren't there, now they are.

Originally Posted by Flex

It's def. not psychological.

A little while ago they weren't there, now they are.

We believe you.

Originally Posted by Seanp156

You can't spot reduce fat, muscles either grow or shrink.

I agree, but the post wasn't about spot reducing fat. It was about doing a specific move to try and isolate a muscle. You can do that.

Yes, but you did say don't do side bends because you obliques will get bigger, so do the twist machine so you can improve your obliques without making them bigger... That doesn't make much sense to me.

You can't spot reduce fat, but anyone can target a specific muscle group. The oblique muscles will grow from doing side bends, which will make the waist larger. Working them in a twisting fashion lengthens the muscles but generally doesn't make them grow larger. Doing cable crossovers for the chest isn't the best move to make the chest grow, but it does stretch and lengthen the pecs.

Originally Posted by Pedigree

You can't spot reduce fat, but anyone can target a specific muscle group. The oblique muscles will grow from doing side bends, which will make the waist larger. Working them in a twisting fashion lengthens the muscles but generally doesn't make them grow larger. Doing cable crossovers for the chest isn't the best move to make the chest grow, but it does stretch and lengthen the pecs.

You can't lengthen a muscle... Its attachment to bone determine how long of a muscle it is, and no exercise can change that. Twisting motions cause the obliques to contract just like a movement on the frontal plane like a sidebend..

Originally Posted by CowPimp

You can't lengthen a muscle... Its attachment to bone determine how long of a muscle it is, and no exercise can change that. Twisting motions cause the obliques to contract just like a movement on the frontal plane like a sidebend..

In the context of my post, I was actually referring to stretching when I said lengthening.

Originally Posted by Pedigree

In the context of my post, I was actually referring to stretching when I said lengthening.

So explain to me why involving your obliques in a twisting movement won't cause growth? They are still contracting, microtrauma still occurs, there is still a hormonal response... Am I missing something?

Originally Posted by CowPimp

So explain to me why involving your obliques in a twisting movement won't cause growth? They are still contracting, microtrauma still occurs, there is still a hormonal response... Am I missing something?

During a side bend, one side of the obliques is under concentric contraction, while the other is under eccentric contraction. The twist is an eccentric contraction during lengthening and has little to no concentric contraction happening. There is plenty of science that shows quite a bit more Electromyographic (EMG) activity in a concentric move than an eccentric move. I'm sure that if a person chose to do 4 sets of 20 weighted oblique twists 3 days per week, there would be growth in that region to a degree. Any muscle will grow some under the right circumstances. However, the twist (being an eccentric move) will prevent excessive growth from occuring.

Originally Posted by Pedigree

During a side bend, one side of the obliques is under concentric contraction, while the other is under eccentric contraction. The twist is an eccentric contraction during lengthening and has little to no concentric contraction happening. There is plenty of science that shows quite a bit more Electromyographic (EMG) activity in a concentric move than an eccentric move. I'm sure that if a person chose to do 4 sets of 20 weighted oblique twists 3 days per week, there would be growth in that region to a degree. Any muscle will grow some under the right circumstances. However, the twist (being an eccentric move) will prevent excessive growth from occuring.

First of all, during a side bend only one oblique is active at a time, at least in an isotonic sense.

Explain to my why there is no concentric contraction occuring during the twisting movement. Once the eccentric contraction slows your torso's twisting velocity to zero and the direction reverses, it is now concentric. Furthermore, your obliques are much

Also, the eccentric portion of a movement is more closely related to hypertrophy. Sure, the muscle is under less tension during this portion of the movement at equivalent levels of external resistance, but the eccentric portion of the lift is the one during which microtrauma occurs.

Also, EMG numbers are far from a definitive measure of what the hypertrophic response to an exercise will be.

Originally Posted by CowPimp

First of all, during a side bend only one oblique is active at a time, at least in an isotonic sense.

Explain to my why there is no concentric contraction occuring during the twisting movement. Once the eccentric contraction slows your torso's twisting velocity to zero and the direction reverses, it is now concentric. Furthermore, your obliques are much

Also, the eccentric portion of a movement is more closely related to hypertrophy. Sure, the muscle is under less tension during this portion of the movement at equivalent levels of external resistance, but the eccentric portion of the lift is the one during which microtrauma occurs.

Also, EMG numbers are far from a definitive measure of what the hypertrophic response to an exercise will be.

OK, you win.

In any case, since when does doing eccentric workouts not cause hypertrophy?

Also, if your gym doesnt have those oblique twist machines, how can you improvise?