Little muscle soreness the next day - too little, too much, or just right?

ughsassin · 02-12-2006, 12:37 AM

I've been lifting seriously for a few weeks now and am on a high calorie/protein mass building diet to bulk up. I have been lifting casually off and on for years, a few weeks then I get bored, and now I'm getting serious.

Before, and up until now, I my muscles have always felt really sore the day after I work them, which gradually went away as I recovered the next couple of days. I thought this was a sign that I'd worked the muscle well and it was rebuilding itself stronger and larger. I always rest the muscle group 3-7 days and am careful not to 'overtrain'.

But recently, especially in my biceps, I haven't felt much, if any, soreness in my muscles post-workout. I usually warm up with 15-20 lightweight reps then do about 4 sets per exercise, and about 3 exercises per group (ex. this week - Biceps: alternating curls, ez-bar cable curls, hammer curls). So that seems about right to get a good workout and seems to conform to routines widely accepted as good. And by the time I'm done my muscles feel pretty pumped.

Also, I usually vary the exercises weekly to change things up. And I don't think I've even been lifting seriously long enough for my body to get used to a certain routine.

My question, then, is whether the lack or soreness is because I'm not working out hard enough. Or should I actually not be too sore the day after and not sore at all beyond 24 hours? Since I'm not an experienced bodybuilder I have no way of really knowing what a perfectly worked muscle should feel like. Should I just accept that I won't necessarily 'feel' the effects, or am I undertraining. If so would higher weights be the best way to go (I've been trying not to go super heavy, emphasizing perfect form over heavier weights). Also, for mass building is it better to go to failure on all or some sets, or never to failure?

Thanks for any help you can give me. To reiterate my most basic question: How long will an ideal workout leave a muscle group sore and is soreness an indication of a good workout or not? Thanks again!

fletcher6490 · 02-12-2006, 12:54 AM

Haha...This ought to be good.

ughsassin · 02-12-2006, 12:59 AM

I think I answered my own question after more digging, and found that indeed soreness means gains, which is what I assumed. I guess I'll be doing 6-8 higher weight reps and maybe finishing off with a 4-6 rep failure set?

fletcher6490 · 02-12-2006, 01:10 AM

Ok, i'll make this real simple for you.

Quote:

Thanks for any help you can give me. To reiterate my most basic question: How long will an ideal workout leave a muscle group sore and is soreness an indication of a good workout or not? Thanks again!

Soreness is not a good indication of whether or not a workout was effective.

Quote:

I think I answered my own question after more digging, and found that indeed soreness means gains, which is what I assumed. So I guess it's back to the drawing board since each work out -seemed- intense enough. Heavier weights and sets to failure?

You answered it wrong!!! The answer is NO.

Post your routine and the brilliant minds here at ironmagazine.com will definetly help you out.

ughsassin · 02-12-2006, 01:26 AM

"The good soreness that makes you stronger is called DOMS (Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness) and is caused by microscopic tears in your muscle fibers. It is not caused by lactic acid buildup. When muscles are damaged, they produce healing prostaglandin that cause muscles to become bigger and stronger than before they were exercised vigorously. Researchers have shown that DOMS heals faster when you do nothing, but if you take off every time your muscles feel sore, you will never become an athlete and you will not reach a high level of fitness. When you exert very slight pressure on your muscles when you have DOMS, you cause muscle fibers to become more fibrous and they will become stronger so they can withstand greater stress during your harder workouts."

- http://ezinearticles.com/?DOMS:-Dela...ness&id=118977

"When you work out, you literally "tear down" muscle tissue (these are microscopic tears - not like a "torn" muscle in the medical sense). During the days after the workout, the muscle begins to rebuild itself, provided it is allowed enough time to recover and sufficient nutrients are provided. This rebuilding process creates a "new" muscle that is bigger and stronger than before. In a nutshell, this is how the enitre process of muscle growth takes place.

This type of pain is different than the burn you feel during the workout and it is different from the pain of an injury. It's important that you develop the ability to differentiate between the "good pain" of soreness and the "bad pain" of injury. Unless the soreness is so extreme that it is debilitating and prevents you from participating in sports or performing routine tasks (like walking up a flight of stairs!), then next day soreness is GOOD PAIN! It is a sign that you had a good workout - that you trained hard enough to break down muscle tissue. As a result, your reward is going to be bigger and stronger muscles.

DOMS will be greatest in a beginner who has never worked out before. The more your body adapts to the workload you impose on it, the less soreness you will feel. If you continue to repeat the same workout over and over again, it will eventually cease to make you sore. Unfortunately, you will also cease to make any progress. Progressive overload is the cornerstone of getting stronger and building muscle."

- http://www.ironmagazine.com/article118.html

**CowPimp** · 02-12-2006, 12:16 PM

They're talking out of their asses. No one fully understands what causes DOMS. Muscle damage has something to do with it, yes, but there is more to it than that. If that was the only thing that caused soreness, then you would get sore after every resistance training workout that involved sufficient intensity. We all know that isn't the case.

Measure your progress by measuring your progress. Don't worry about soreness. It's really that simple.

ughsassin · 02-12-2006, 01:12 PM

Ok, thanks.

The13ig13adWolf · 02-12-2006, 02:33 PM

as stated above, DOMS isn't an indicator of a successful workout. unnecessary to switch up your workout every week. every 4-6 weeks is fine.

**P-funk** · 02-12-2006, 07:10 PM

I can hit you on the foot with a DB and you will be sore for weeks. But that doesn't make it effective.

ughsassin · 02-14-2006, 10:15 PM

ok...

02-12-2006, 12:37 AM	#1
ughsassin Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 12	Little muscle soreness the next day - too little, too much, or just right? I've been lifting seriously for a few weeks now and am on a high calorie/protein mass building diet to bulk up. I have been lifting casually off and on for years, a few weeks then I get bored, and now I'm getting serious. Before, and up until now, I my muscles have always felt really sore the day after I work them, which gradually went away as I recovered the next couple of days. I thought this was a sign that I'd worked the muscle well and it was rebuilding itself stronger and larger. I always rest the muscle group 3-7 days and am careful not to 'overtrain'. But recently, especially in my biceps, I haven't felt much, if any, soreness in my muscles post-workout. I usually warm up with 15-20 lightweight reps then do about 4 sets per exercise, and about 3 exercises per group (ex. this week - Biceps: alternating curls, ez-bar cable curls, hammer curls). So that seems about right to get a good workout and seems to conform to routines widely accepted as good. And by the time I'm done my muscles feel pretty pumped. Also, I usually vary the exercises weekly to change things up. And I don't think I've even been lifting seriously long enough for my body to get used to a certain routine. My question, then, is whether the lack or soreness is because I'm not working out hard enough. Or should I actually not be too sore the day after and not sore at all beyond 24 hours? Since I'm not an experienced bodybuilder I have no way of really knowing what a perfectly worked muscle should feel like. Should I just accept that I won't necessarily 'feel' the effects, or am I undertraining. If so would higher weights be the best way to go (I've been trying not to go super heavy, emphasizing perfect form over heavier weights). Also, for mass building is it better to go to failure on all or some sets, or never to failure? Thanks for any help you can give me. To reiterate my most basic question: How long will an ideal workout leave a muscle group sore and is soreness an indication of a good workout or not? Thanks again!
ughsassin Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 12

02-12-2006, 12:54 AM	#2
fletcher6490 God has graced us again Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Chicagoland Posts: 2,235 Photos: 4	Haha...This ought to be good.
	Can't even remember the last time I was in the gym. I suck at life.

02-12-2006, 12:59 AM	#3
ughsassin Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 12	I think I answered my own question after more digging, and found that indeed soreness means gains, which is what I assumed. I guess I'll be doing 6-8 higher weight reps and maybe finishing off with a 4-6 rep failure set?
ughsassin Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 12

02-12-2006, 01:26 AM	#5
ughsassin Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 12	"The good soreness that makes you stronger is called DOMS (Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness) and is caused by microscopic tears in your muscle fibers. It is not caused by lactic acid buildup. When muscles are damaged, they produce healing prostaglandin that cause muscles to become bigger and stronger than before they were exercised vigorously. Researchers have shown that DOMS heals faster when you do nothing, but if you take off every time your muscles feel sore, you will never become an athlete and you will not reach a high level of fitness. When you exert very slight pressure on your muscles when you have DOMS, you cause muscle fibers to become more fibrous and they will become stronger so they can withstand greater stress during your harder workouts." - http://ezinearticles.com/?DOMS:-Dela...ness&id=118977 "When you work out, you literally "tear down" muscle tissue (these are microscopic tears - not like a "torn" muscle in the medical sense). During the days after the workout, the muscle begins to rebuild itself, provided it is allowed enough time to recover and sufficient nutrients are provided. This rebuilding process creates a "new" muscle that is bigger and stronger than before. In a nutshell, this is how the enitre process of muscle growth takes place. This type of pain is different than the burn you feel during the workout and it is different from the pain of an injury. It's important that you develop the ability to differentiate between the "good pain" of soreness and the "bad pain" of injury. Unless the soreness is so extreme that it is debilitating and prevents you from participating in sports or performing routine tasks (like walking up a flight of stairs!), then next day soreness is GOOD PAIN! It is a sign that you had a good workout - that you trained hard enough to break down muscle tissue. As a result, your reward is going to be bigger and stronger muscles. DOMS will be greatest in a beginner who has never worked out before. The more your body adapts to the workload you impose on it, the less soreness you will feel. If you continue to repeat the same workout over and over again, it will eventually cease to make you sore. Unfortunately, you will also cease to make any progress. Progressive overload is the cornerstone of getting stronger and building muscle." - http://www.ironmagazine.com/article118.html
ughsassin Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 12

02-12-2006, 12:16 PM	#6
CowPimp Fueled by Testosterone Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 15,434	They're talking out of their asses. No one fully understands what causes DOMS. Muscle damage has something to do with it, yes, but there is more to it than that. If that was the only thing that caused soreness, then you would get sore after every resistance training workout that involved sufficient intensity. We all know that isn't the case. Measure your progress by measuring your progress. Don't worry about soreness. It's really that simple.
	The only time it's bad to feel the burn is when you're peeing... CowPimp Picks Up Heavy Shit MySpace YouTube Videos

02-12-2006, 01:12 PM	#7
ughsassin Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 12	Ok, thanks.
ughsassin Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 12

02-12-2006, 02:33 PM	#8
The13ig13adWolf IM Ball Buster Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: I win... Posts: 1,367	as stated above, DOMS isn't an indicator of a successful workout. unnecessary to switch up your workout every week. every 4-6 weeks is fine.
	Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar territory. -G. Behn

02-12-2006, 07:10 PM	#9
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,645	I can hit you on the foot with a DB and you will be sore for weeks. But that doesn't make it effective.
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! Ivonne's Blog on Health and Wellness! Looking for online training/coaching/consulting? --> Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

02-14-2006, 10:15 PM	#10
ughsassin Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 12	ok...
ughsassin Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 12

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