Thread: Friend been working out, has high bodyfat %

Originally Posted by stucknsc2005

OK, I have been working out with a friend of mine lately and he is a very big boy. About 400lbs at 6'2". He has a very high bodyfat %. I dont beleive his skin has elasticity anymore and I am wondering if he works out and does cardio and looses weight how will this effect him? What is the best thing for him. He just wants to loose some bodyfat the most healthy way.

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Don't have him do cardio until he is down into the high 200's.

Originally Posted by BigDyl

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Don't have him do cardio until he is down into the high 200's.

1) diet

2) he is extremely deconditioned so he should be doing some cardio to help increase his work capacity and energy expenditure.

As far as the skin goes, he may need surgery to tighten it up if he is all stretched out.

Originally Posted by stucknsc2005

OK, I have been working out with a friend of mine lately and he is a very big boy. About 400lbs at 6'2". He has a very high bodyfat %. I dont beleive his skin has elasticity anymore and I am wondering if he works out and does cardio and looses weight how will this effect him? What is the best thing for him. He just wants to loose some bodyfat the most healthy way.

He needs to hit a high protein KETO diet and worry about the skin later. His health is at risk.It's mere speculation at this point on what his skin will look like or how much weight he will lose.

Originally Posted by IRON MAN

He needs to hit a high protein KETO diet and worry about the skin later. His health is at risk.It's mere speculation at this point on what his skin will look like or how much weight he will lose.

why a Keto diet?

he needs to learn healthy eating patterns....eating a ketogenic diet doesn't teach him how to make proper food choices and the re-feed allows him the opportunity to binge on food that have gotten him to this over-fat/deconditined state already. I would say he needs to learn how to eat healthier and change his eating habits. Even if he eats a low(er) carb diet he still needs something that he can do and stick to. The re-feed binge is defenitly going to get him in trouble.

I am back P. Start getting worried.

I said start getting worried!

What's your opinion on someone like that hitting the weights P?

Originally Posted by CowPimp

What's your opinion on someone like that hitting the weights P?

someone that deconditioned will defenitly benefit from resistance training but they still need to do cardio to raise their work capacity and increase thier overal level of fitenss since it is pretty poor. It isn't the same as someone that already lifts weights and has 16%BF and wants to get ripped. Obviously a healthy diet and proper training will get them to their goal without the need to steady state cardio in most instances save for maybe the tail end of the diet when progress has completely stalled.

Originally Posted by P-funk

someone that deconditioned will defenitly benefit from resistance training but they still need to do cardio to raise their work capacity and increase thier overal level of fitenss since it is pretty poor. It isn't the same as someone that already lifts weights and has 16%BF and wants to get ripped. Obviously a healthy diet and proper training will get them to their goal without the need to steady state cardio in most instances save for maybe the tail end of the diet when progress has completely stalled.

Oh yeah, cardio is a must. Even if you just start them off walking on the treadmill at a brisk pace, which is probably about as much as they can handle in the first place.

Honestly, I think everyone should do cardio. I don't care if you are a pure bodybuilder. It's good for your health, and more people should appreciate that aspect of training. I have never seen cardio act as a detriment to my mass or strength gains, although people act like it causes fucking atrophy.

Originally Posted by CowPimp

Oh yeah, cardio is a must. Even if you just start them off walking on the treadmill at a brisk pace, which is probably about as much as they can handle in the first place.

Honestly, I think everyone should do cardio. I don't care if you are a pure bodybuilder. It's good for your health, and more people should appreciate that aspect of training. I have never seen cardio act as a detriment to my mass or strength gains, although people act like it causes fucking atrophy.

If he were my client, honestley, at that weight, I would not put him on the treadmill. He is way to big and you are running the risk of things like achilies tendonitis or shin split. Defenitly get him on the bike though.

Originally Posted by P-funk

If he were my client, honestley, at that weight, I would not put him on the treadmill. He is way to big and you are running the risk of things like achilies tendonitis or shin split. Defenitly get him on the bike though.

Even just walking, really? I mean I see your point, but I hate the fucking bike. It is so easy to fake like you are doing something. How about some rowing instead? The bike just isn't metabolic worth a shit. I guess it doesn't matter when you going from being a completely sedentary fatass to pedaling on the bike; that is quite a leap. I just dislike it for some reason...

Originally Posted by CowPimp

Even just walking, really? I mean I see your point, but I hate the fucking bike. It is so easy to fake like you are doing something. How about some rowing instead? The bike just isn't metabolic worth a shit. I guess it doesn't matter when you going from being a completely sedentary fatass to pedaling on the bike; that is quite a leap. I just dislike it for some reason...

defenitly, not even walking. to much stress, to much force. also, usually when someone is that obese, they will have altered gait and muscle imbalances because of it. The bike is the safest bet. Get them on an upright bike, sitting straigh up (not leaning down into a race type of position).

I hear ya about not faking it on the bike. But, as you will see when you start your job as a trainer, you need to know how to get the most out of your client. As far as figuring out where they are cardio wise here is what I do for someone that deconditioned on the bike to make sure I know they are working.

1) I test set them up in comfortable position on the bike.
2) get a heart rate monitor on them
3) have them start pedaling and note their heart rate
4) every 2min. increase the level on them and note their heart rate and where it stabalizes.

Now, here is where you find out if they are working. You need to keep talking to them. Remeber, that real steady state cardio (aerobic cardio) is done at a pace that you can maintain a conversation without getting out of breathe. So, as you are talking to them notice how they are breathing. Once they start panting to keep up with your conversation note their heart rate and stop the test and move on. Now, you have the number (generically but it is something to base your training off of) that they go anerobic at. So, you will simply set them up with intervals on their workouts were they are to pedal up to 2-5 beats from that 'anerobic' heart rate number and then take as much rest as they need to get back down about 20bpms from that 'anerobic' number and then perform another interval again up to 2-5 bpms of that 'anerobic' heart rate. As they increase their work capacity, the time between intervals will decrease as their recovery gets better (that is real improvement!). Also, they wont be as winded when they approach that 'anerobic' number and they will start to be able to exceed it. Around 4-6 weeks you can retest and then get a new baseline.

hope that helps.

Originally Posted by P-funk

defenitly, not even walking. to much stress, to much force. also, usually when someone is that obese, they will have altered gait and muscle imbalances because of it. The bike is the safest bet. Get them on an upright bike, sitting straigh up (not leaning down into a race type of position).

I hear ya about not faking it on the bike. But, as you will see when you start your job as a trainer, you need to know how to get the most out of your client. As far as figuring out where they are cardio wise here is what I do for someone that deconditioned on the bike to make sure I know they are working.

1) I test set them up in comfortable position on the bike.
2) get a heart rate monitor on them
3) have them start pedaling and note their heart rate
4) every 2min. increase the level on them and note their heart rate and where it stabalizes.

Now, here is where you find out if they are working. You need to keep talking to them. Remeber, that real steady state cardio (aerobic cardio) is done at a pace that you can maintain a conversation without getting out of breathe. So, as you are talking to them notice how they are breathing. Once they start panting to keep up with your conversation note their heart rate and stop the test and move on. Now, you have the number (generically but it is something to base your training off of) that they go anerobic at. So, you will simply set them up with intervals on their workouts were they are to pedal up to 2-5 beats from that 'anerobic' heart rate number and then take as much rest as they need to get back down about 20bpms from that 'anerobic' number and then perform another interval again up to 2-5 bpms of that 'anerobic' heart rate. As they increase their work capacity, the time between intervals will decrease as their recovery gets better (that is real improvement!). Also, they wont be as winded when they approach that 'anerobic' number and they will start to be able to exceed it. Around 4-6 weeks you can retest and then get a new baseline.

hope that helps.

Interesting idea. Thanks for that info. That is one area I need to focus on a little more when it comes to training; dealing with people who are in horrible shape or have some type of injury/disability.

Originally Posted by CowPimp

Interesting idea. Thanks for that info. That is one area I need to focus on a little more when it comes to training; dealing with people who are in horrible shape or have some type of injury/disability.

yea, hit me up if you have any questions or need ideas programming for clients that are extremely deconditioned.

Originally Posted by P-funk

yea, hit me up if you have any questions or need ideas programming for clients that are extremely deconditioned.

I appreciate that. I really do!

Got a quick question for you guys, since you are on the subject of a deconditioned/obese client.

What if the (older) client has difficulty using the stationary bike - he or she has an existing knee problem such as arthritis or instability in one knee (or both knees)? As a result of a fall, or just the condition of being overweight, etc.

For instance, this person has acknowledged pain straight through one knee joint (from front to back) during the exercise, followed by stiffness in the lower leg and instability in that one knee after the session is over, resulting in pain and inflammation which last for days.

What other form of aerobic activity might this person be able to do if the treadmill, walking, or stationary bike is not an option? Perhaps some work in a pool?

(As a side note, this person has been to many doctors, working to remedy the problem.)

Thanks...

Originally Posted by furion joe

Got a quick question for you guys, since you are on the subject of a deconditioned/obese client.

What if the (older) client has difficulty using the stationary bike - he or she has an existing knee problem such as arthritis or instability in one knee (or both knees)? As a result of a fall, or just the condition of being overweight, etc.

For instance, this person has acknowledged pain straight through one knee joint (from front to back) during the exercise, followed by stiffness in the lower leg and instability in that one knee after the session is over, resulting in pain and inflammation which last for days.

What other form of aerobic activity might this person be able to do if the treadmill, walking, or stationary bike is not an option? Perhaps some work in a pool?

(As a side note, this person has been to many doctors, working to remedy the problem.)

Thanks...

pool.

ice imediatly post workout.

what is the knee problem?

Originally Posted by P-funk

pool.

ice imediatly post workout.

what is the knee problem?

Torn cartilage (meniscus) from a fall, it was surgically repaired. Rehabilitation was slow and tedious, but the knee never seemed to be as it once was, as strong or as mobile (still has pain from time to time - equaling more doctor visits). And I think the other knee has little cartilage left.

Exercising in the pool was recommended early on and it was part of the rehabilitation process/program. By the time the knee was functional again, the pool was slowly forgotten and walking became part of the regime, it was leisurely walking though, nothing that would produce an aerobic effect.

Returning to the pool is a good idea.


Thanks for your help.

Originally Posted by furion joe

Torn cartilage (meniscus) from a fall, it was surgically repaired. Rehabilitation was slow and tedious, but the knee never seemed to be as it once was, as strong or as mobile (still has pain from time to time - equaling more doctor visits). And I think the other knee has little cartilage left.

Exercising in the pool was recommended early on and it was part of the rehabilitation process/program. By the time the knee was functional again, the pool was slowly forgotten and walking became part of the regime, it was leisurely walking though, nothing that would produce an aerobic effect.

Returning to the pool is a good idea.


Thanks for your help.

but I thought you said walking was causing pain?

What about the upper body ergometer (UBE)?? Those can be pretty helpful.

Is this person doing any sort of resistance training?

Originally Posted by P-funk

but I thought you said walking was causing pain?

What about the upper body ergometer (UBE)?? Those can be pretty helpful.

Is this person doing any sort of resistance training?

Oh no, my bad, it was the stationary bike that was causing the pain, the upward stroke. I was referring to one of your previous posts on obesity:

Originally Posted by P-funk

defenitly, not even walking. to much stress, to much force. also, usually when someone is that obese, they will have altered gait and muscle imbalances because of it.

Walking is OK/tolerable, it doesn't cause a lot of pain until fatigue sets in. So I guess that is still an option, I just figured based on your post that walking might be a hiderance in some way.

The upper body ergometer could be a big help, it could possibly work, for sure.

No resistance training at the moment, at 64 it may be a new beginning.

Originally Posted by furion joe

Oh no, my bad, it was the stationary bike that was causing the pain, the upward stroke. I was referring to one of your previous posts on obesity:



Walking is OK/tolerable, it doesn't cause a lot of pain until fatigue sets in. So I guess that is still an option, I just figured based on your post that walking might be a hiderance in some way.

The upper body ergometer could be a big help, it could possibly work, for sure.

No resistance training at the moment, at 64 it may be a new beginning.

yea, the set up on the bike may be off. For someone with a meniscus tear the forcefull locking out on the bike may give it some pain. The lack of cartalige is inhibiting the ability to abosrd shock in the knee.

The walking may feel better because the person is not lcoking out their knee during the walk.

As far as resistance training goes, a pain free ROM will due. If it hurts or they are really weak begning with lying quad flexes....lie on your back, legs flat, toes pointed towards the ceiling. Contract (flex) the quad and hold for time. Also, lying single leg raises, hip flexion and hip extension (lying face down) will help to build the hip musculature since the person is probably sedentary and has weaknesses up and down the posterior chain. Light ankle weights may be an option until you can progress to leg presses (not locking out the knee at the top, try and avoid that, and a pain free ROM). Upper body, nothing changes and you can even do upper body circuits to get their cardio up.

Originally Posted by P-funk

yea, the set up on the bike may be off. For someone with a meniscus tear the forcefull locking out on the bike may give it some pain. The lack of cartalige is inhibiting the ability to abosrd shock in the knee.

The walking may feel better because the person is not lcoking out their knee during the walk.

As far as resistance training goes, a pain free ROM will due. If it hurts or they are really weak begning with lying quad flexes....lie on your back, legs flat, toes pointed towards the ceiling. Contract (flex) the quad and hold for time. Also, lying single leg raises, hip flexion and hip extension (lying face down) will help to build the hip musculature since the person is probably sedentary and has weaknesses up and down the posterior chain. Light ankle weights may be an option until you can progress to leg presses (not locking out the knee at the top, try and avoid that, and a pain free ROM). Upper body, nothing changes and you can even do upper body circuits to get their cardio up.

Cool. I'm going to pass on that information!

How often can the exercises be performed?


Edit: I should know the answer to that question.

Thanks again.

Originally Posted by furion joe

Cool. I'm going to pass on that information!

How often can the exercises be performed?


Edit: I should know the answer to that question.

Thanks again.

2-3x's per week depending on the persons 'training age'.

Ofcourse, working the hip flexors and extensors is just a way to train train the lower body while they rehab their knee (how many weeks post op are they?). Ideally they will want to progress to leg press and then to modified ROM squats (90 degrees of knee flexion and then up but not locking out the knee). Usually I have people squat down to a bench.

Originally Posted by P-funk

2-3x's per week depending on the persons 'training age'.

Ofcourse, working the hip flexors and extensors is just a way to train train the lower body while they rehab their knee (how many weeks post op are they?). Ideally they will want to progress to leg press and then to modified ROM squats (90 degrees of knee flexion and then up but not locking out the knee). Usually I have people squat down to a bench.

Post Op time is probably well over a year. The rehab was successful, but as time went by the sedentary lifestyle probably contributed further to the deterioration/weakness of the knee joint - not keeping up with exercises that strengthen the muscles/ligaments/tendons around the knee. Being overweight doesn't help either. I assume the original rehab/treatment was a means to get the knee 'healthy' again so that a 'normal' lifestyle could resume - performing daily activities with little or no pain.

So it is just walking (within limits) and dieting to lose more weight. There may be other medical concerns that I am not aware of that might be contributing factors in this person's overall condition. The exercises you mentioned previously may be an acceptable way for this person to progress into resistance training.

Originally Posted by furion joe

Post Op time is probably well over a year. The rehab was successful, but as time went by the sedentary lifestyle probably contributed further to the deterioration/weakness of the knee joint - not keeping up with exercises that strengthen the muscles/ligaments/tendons around the knee. Being overweight doesn't help either. I assume the original rehab/treatment was a means to get the knee 'healthy' again so that a 'normal' lifestyle could resume - performing daily activities with little or no pain.

So it is just walking (within limits) and dieting to lose more weight. There may be other medical concerns that I am not aware of that might be contributing factors in this person's overall condition. The exercises you mentioned previously may be an acceptable way for this person to progress into resistance training.

that is the biggest problem with people that get surgery on their knees or shoulders.....they think after rehab that they shouldn't ever move again. that is the worst thing you can do. the best thing you can do it get back in the gym and start to re-strengthen the muscles surounding the joint.