My Thoughts On Training--- Matt Reynolds

**Dale Mabry** · 02-18-2006, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33ecooks

RippedNYlifter - any suggestions if someone can't squat anymore at all (2 knee surgeries last 5 years ).

Yeah, stop being a pussy.

I find it hard to believe you can't squat at all. Do you have a telescopic arm to pic up shit you drop? If your doctor told you specifically not to squat then don't, but I would imagine you are in a wheelchair if that is the case. Do you have no ACL or something?

**P-funk** · 02-18-2006, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

Yeah, stop being a pussy.

I find it hard to believe you can't squat at all. Do you have a telescopic arm to pic up shit you drop? If your doctor told you specifically not to squat then don't, but I would imagine you are in a wheelchair if that is the case. Do you have no ACL or something?

yea, for the most part, people coming out of knee surgeries are told to squat and do things to gain strength back to the muscles that extend the knee and get them firing again. In most cases I have seen, it is more hazerdous NOT to train then to train it through a pain free ROM and try and increase that ROM to a functional level as this will help to prevent further injury.

TJ Cline · 02-18-2006, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

In the top 10, 2 were from North America, 3 from the Island of Jamaica, 2 from Europe, and 3 from Africa, can't get more split than that. So there are 3 continenets and an island in the top 10, hardly everyone from the top 100 is from the same continent. And don't give me they are black, which I am sure is your next point.

1. (1.) Justin GATLIN 82 USA 1405
2. (2.) Aziz ZAKARI 76 GHA 1353
3. (3.) Dwight THOMAS 80 JAM 1340
4. (4.) Asafa POWELL 82 JAM 1333
5. (6.) Francis OBIKWELU 78 POR 1325
6. (7.) Leonard SCOTT 80 USA 1322
7. (8.) Kim COLLINS 76 SKN 1321
8. (9.) Marc BURNS 83 TRI 1319
9. (5.) Ronald POGNON 82 FRA 1316
10. (10.) Michael FRATER 82 JAM

Nice try bud but you know what I'm talking about......I can not say it openly here without breaking one of the rules.

Where were all their great great great grand parents born?????

Stop circle talking son

**P-funk** · 02-18-2006, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

Where were all their great great great grand parents born?????

only foreman.....

well, there is no way to argue with him now.

**CowPimp** · 02-18-2006, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

Nice try bud but you know what I'm talking about......I can not say it openly here without breaking one of the rules.

Where were all their great great great grand parents born?????

Stop circle talking son

If you go back far enough, we're all from Africa anyway. Your point is moot.

**P-funk** · 02-18-2006, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

If you go back far enough, we're all from Africa anyway. Your point is moot.

that is why it was funny.

TJ Cline · 02-18-2006, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

If you go back far enough, we're all from Africa anyway. Your point is moot.

That is one of the few stupid comments you have made here....

shiznit2169 · 02-18-2006, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

That is one of the few stupid comments you have made here....

so should we all hail foreman and reply "true story" to every post which is considered beyond stupid in my book?

oh mighty one, the master of the ironmagazine forums, the man who can never lose

TJ Cline · 02-18-2006, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

that is why it was funny.

You could say we all are decendents of Prebionts

**Dale Mabry** · 02-18-2006, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

You could say we all are decendents of Prebionts

RACIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

TJ Cline · 02-18-2006, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shiznit2169

so should we all hail foreman and reply "true story" to every post which is considered beyond stupid in my book?

oh mighty one, the master of the ironmagazine forums, the man who can never lose

CowPimp is correct most of the time and always has an interesting comment to make on any subject......unfortunately you are the anti-cowpimp

shiznit2169 · 02-18-2006, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

CowPimp is correct most of the time and always has an interesting comment to make on any subject......unfortunately you are the anti-cowpimp

oh i'm so sorry mr. foremanrules, i didn't know i have to read hundreds of books and study weight lifting every day of my life when i am a freshman in college focusing on school and other important things. Weightlifting is just a part of my life, not an everyday chore regarding reading and studying and learning from the best. I wish i had the mind cowpimp has but i think he is considered one of the elite members here and that would make you anti-cowpimp as well don't you think? By the time i hit your age old man, i will be so far ahead of you than you ever will be. I could just go on but i'll let you soak it all in while it's true. Enjoy it now while it lasts.

TJ Cline · 02-18-2006, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shiznit2169

oh i'm so sorry mr. foremanrules, i didn't know i have to read hundreds of books and study weight lifting every day of my life when i am a freshman in college focusing on school and other important things. Weightlifting is just a part of my life, not an everyday chore regarding reading and studying and learning from the best. I wish i had the mind cowpimp has but i think he is considered one of the elite members here and that would make you anti-cowpimp as well don't you think? By the time i hit your age old man, i will be so far ahead of you than you ever will be. I could just go on but i'll let you soak it all in while it's true. Enjoy it now while it lasts.

Good for you, enjoy college and spend some time with the ladies

33ecooks · 02-18-2006, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

what were the injuries?

what were the surgeries?

How long ago were they done?

Did you actually go to rehab and do something to try and bring them back to normal strength?

Rehabed for 12 weeks, glucosimine, shark-cartlidge, ever since. I can do just about anything else for legs except squat. Everytime I can feel it immediately once I get to that 3/4 point and lower. Shid sucks cause I still work them hard but nothing replaces the gains from squating.

1st 2001 - one to remove parts of a torn MCL (also had a torn PCL) however the Dr who performed the surgery told me I didn't need my PCL repaired. So I continued playing sports and lifting and my knee started hurting worse than before. I found out I had about a dime size section of cartildge worn down so basically had severe arthritis.

2nd surgery 2003 - (4 hours) fixed my PCL (used patella and tendon from hamstring) and cleaned out more MCL. Supposed to (optional) go back and get some sort of cartlidge transplant from a sample they took and cultured but told me I'd be down for about 4-6months on crutches.

**Dale Mabry** · 02-18-2006, 12:18 PM

Do you currently have no cartilidge in one of your knees?

Are squats contraindicated by your doc, or do you just start to feel them and decided not to do them? IMO, even squats with little or no weight are better than any of the assistance crap. The only other things I would highly recommend would be lunges or step ups and I imagine they would hurt your knees worse.

Doublebase · 02-18-2006, 01:14 PM

I'm a pussy lifter. I did cardio this morning and barely broke a sweat. I hate cardio. It sucks. I'm fine if I'm playing basketball or raquetball but running on a treadmill blows. I ran a 1.5 miles. My heartrate was up to 171. I'm 24 183lbs. It takes me awhile to sweat normally. I stopped because I was so bored.

min0 lee · 02-18-2006, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doublebase

I'm a pussy lifter. I did cardio this morning and barely broke a sweat. I hate cardio. It sucks. I'm fine if I'm playing basketball or raquetball but running on a treadmill blows. I ran a 1.5 miles. My heartrate was up to 171. I'm 24 183lbs. It takes me awhile to sweat normally. I stopped because I was so bored.

Are you in the right tread?

I'm lost?

33ecooks · 02-18-2006, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

Do you currently have no cartilidge in one of your knees?

A dime sized hole in the right knee. I would have been kewl if the 1st doc would have fixed the PCL during the 1st surgery. Without the PCL and me still being active and running I basically rubbed away the cartlidge.

I guess I need to get out of that "everybodys" watching me state if I went super light on squats. So I'll try that out..

Doublebase · 02-18-2006, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by min0 lee

Are you in the right tread?

I'm lost?

cowpimp was talking about people in his gym being pussy lifters. I was just responding to that. I shouldn't started a new thread. Sorry.

min0 lee · 02-18-2006, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doublebase

cowpimp was talking about people in his gym being pussy lifters. I was just responding to that. I shouldn't started a new thread. Sorry.

Ohhh, I See.....

Tough Old Man · 02-18-2006, 03:01 PM

I think you all suck and have no idea what trhe fuck your talking about..LOL.

IRON MAN · 02-18-2006, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RippedNYLifter

You're wrong hmm... let me see here wheres that link.... Well, we'll start off with this:
There are several schools of thought on squat depth. Many misinformed individuals caution against squatting below parallel, stating that this is hazardous to the knees. Nothing could be further from the truth. (2) Stopping at or above parallel places direct stress on the knees, whereas a deep squat will transfer the load to the hips,(3) which are capable of handling a greater amount of force than the knees should ever be exposed to. Studies have shown that the squat produces lower peak tibeo-femoral(stress at the knee joint) compressive force than both the leg press and the leg extension.(4) For functional strength, one should descend as deeply as possible, and under control. (yes, certain individuals can squat in a ballistic manner, but they are the exception rather than the rule). The further a lifter descends, the more the hamstrings are recruited, and proper squatting displays nearly twice the hamstring involvement of the leg press or leg extension. (5,6) and as one of the functions of the hamstring is to protect the patella tendon (the primary tendon involved in knee extension) during knee extension through a concurrent firing process, the greatest degree of hamstring recruitment should provide the greatest degree of protection to the knee joint. (7) When one is a powerlifter, the top surface of the legs at the hip joint must descend to a point below the top surface of the legs at the knee joint.

Knee injuries are one of the most commonly stated problems that come from squatting, however, this is usually stated by those who do not know how to squat. A properly performed squat will appropriately load the knee joint, which improves congruity by increasing the compressive forces at the knee joint. (8,(9) which improves stability, protecting the knee against shear forces. As part of a long-term exercise program, the squat, like other exercises, will lead to increased collagen turnover and hypertrophy of ligaments. (10,11) At least one study has shown that international caliber weightlifters and powerlifters experience less clinical or symptomatic arthritis. (12) Other critics of the squat have stated that it decreases the stability of the knees, yet nothing could be further from the truth. Studies have shown that the squat will increase knee stability by reducing joint laxity, as well as decrease anterior-posterior laxity and translation. (13,14) The squat is, in fact, being used as a rehabilitation exercise for many types of knee injuries, including ACL repair. (15)

REFERENCES;2 Ariel, B.G., 1974. Biomechanical analysis of the knee joint during deep knee bends with a heavy load. Biomechanics. IV(1):44-52.

3 High- and low-bar squatting techniques during weight-training. Wretenberg P; Feng Y; Arborelius UP, Med Sci Sports Exerc, 28(2):218-24 1996 Feb

4 An analytical model of the knee for estimation of internal forces during exercise. Zheng N; Fleisig GS; Escamilla RF; Barrentine SW, J Biomech, 31(10):963-7 1998 Oct

5 Biomechanics of the knee during closed kinetic chain and open kinetic chain exercises. Escamilla RF; Fleisig GS; Zheng N; Barrentine SW; Wilk KE; Andrews JR Med Sci Sports Exerc, 30(4):556-69 1998 Apr

6 A comparison of tibiofemoral joint forces and electromyographic activity during open and closed kinetic chain exercises. Wilk KE; Escamilla RF; Fleisig GS; Barrentine SW; Andrews JR; Boyd ML Am J Sports Med, 24(4):518-27 1996 Jul-Aug

7 Chandler TJ and Stone MH. (1991) The squat exercise in athletic conditioning: a review of the literature. NSCA Journal. 13(5): 58-60.
8 Hsieh, H. and P.S. Walker. 1976. Stabilizing mechanisms of the loaded and unloaded knee joint. Journal of Bone and Joint Surgery. 58A(1):87-93.

9 Uhl, T.L. and P.V. Loubert. 1990. Axial compression effect on anterior displacement of the in vivo tibeofemoral joint. Master’s thesis, University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, MI.

10 Shankman, G. 1989. Training guidelines for strengthening the injured knee: basic concepts for the strength coach. NSCA Journal. 11(4):32-42.

11 Tipton, C.M., Matthes, R.D., Maynard, J.A. and Carey, R.A. 1975. The influence of physical activity on ligaments and tendons. Medicine and Science in Sports. 7(3):165-175.

12 Herrick, R.T., Stone, M.H. and Herrick, S. 1983. Injuries in strength-power activities. Powerlifting USA. 7(5):7-9.

13 Panariello, R.A., Backus, S.I., and Parker, J.W. 1994. The effect of the squat exercise on anterior-posterior knee translation in professional football players. American Journal of Sports Medicine. 22(6):768-773.

14 Steiner, M.E., Grana, W.A., Chillag, K., and Schelberg-Karnes, E. The effect of exercise on anterior-posterior knee laxity. 1986. American Journal of Sports Medicine. 14(1): 24-29.

15 Palmitier, R.A., Kai-Nan, A., Scott, S.G., and Chao, E.Y.S. 1991. Kinetic chain exercise in knee rehabilitation. Sports Medicine. 11(6):402-413.

I've read all those studies and put them to the test.

It's been my experience that the majority of those with knee and or lower back problems cannot squat below parallel without worsening their condition. That in itself tells me that squatting below parallel puts more stress on the "lower back"/sacrum and the "knees".

While it is true that more stress will transfer over to the hips during a deep squat,there will also be more stress placed on the knees and lower back when one assends out of that deeper position.

There has been many studies out there that sound good on paper, but many don't hold true when put to the test. If you can squat deep without knee or lower back pain and like deep squats, then by all means contiune to do them. But I want be having my clients do them because I have real life experience with various groups of people that has shown me that "parallel squats" are safer than "deep squats".

**Dale Mabry** · 02-18-2006, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IRON MAN

I've read all those studies and put them to the test.

It's been my experience that the majority of those with knee and or lower back problems cannot squat below parallel without worsening their condition. That in itself tells me that squatting below parallel puts more stress on the "lower back"/sacrum and the "knees".

Problem with that kind of logic is that people with a dysfunction do not line up with normal folk. For example, if person A has skin cancer and person B does not, it would be advised that person A not go out in the sun, not that the Sun causes cancer. Same with the squat, if people with bad knees can't squat below parallel without pain, it doesn't mean everyone is going to get knee damage from deep squatting. In all actuality, the people with bad knees are prolly either being pussies, or too proud to use a lower weight. Both should be punishable by death, IMO.

IRON MAN · 02-18-2006, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

Problem with that kind of logic is that people with a dysfunction do not line up with normal folk. For example, if person A has skin cancer and person B does not, it would be advised that person A not go out in the sun, not that the Sun causes cancer. Same with the squat, if people with bad knees can't squat below parallel without pain, it doesn't mean everyone is going to get knee damage from deep squatting. In all actuality, the people with bad knees are prolly either being pussies, or too proud to use a lower weight. Both should be punishable by death, IMO.

Agree about many trying to use too much weight.

What I forgot to mention is that I have seen several trainers develop lower back problems by squatting butt to the ground. Therefore anyone concerned with the health of their "lower back" should never squat deep.

In general it's been mostly lower back problems I have seen occur from using deep squats but I have seen a few knee prob

02-18-2006, 12:18 PM	#45
Dale Mabry Moderator Moderator Join Date: May 2003 Location: Elsewhere Posts: 13,883 Photos: 10	Do you currently have no cartilidge in one of your knees? Are squats contraindicated by your doc, or do you just start to feel them and decided not to do them? IMO, even squats with little or no weight are better than any of the assistance crap. The only other things I would highly recommend would be lunges or step ups and I imagine they would hurt your knees worse.
	If sense were common, everyone would have it. 4/2007-Current 75th Ranked most popular image 1 spot behind Prince's bulge...

02-18-2006, 01:14 PM	#46
Doublebase Lightweight, Ya Buddy! Elite Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Philly Posts: 6,653	I'm a pussy lifter. I did cardio this morning and barely broke a sweat. I hate cardio. It sucks. I'm fine if I'm playing basketball or raquetball but running on a treadmill blows. I ran a 1.5 miles. My heartrate was up to 171. I'm 24 183lbs. It takes me awhile to sweat normally. I stopped because I was so bored.

02-18-2006, 03:01 PM	#51
Tough Old Man Canine club CEO Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: baja calif, Mexico Posts: 6,933 Photos: 1	I think you all suck and have no idea what trhe fuck your talking about..LOL.