Downtime: Not enough in my Routine?

NMOY · 02-22-2006, 01:51 PM

Hello all, I'm new to the forums. I workout regularly at the gym with friends, and attend Ithaca College. I have been considering a new 3 day Split with opposing muscle groups to optimize time, and would love some input on whether or not I'm giving myself enough recovery time:
I was thinking about the following:
-------------------------
Monday: Legs + Shoulders.
~
Wednesday: Chest + Biceps
~
Friday: Back + Triceps
~
-------------------------
My Question:
Will this Split leave enough time for my Shoulders(Mon.) to heal before Bench Press/inclining(Wed.), and for my triceps *worked while benching(Wed.)* to heal before working them specifically Friday?
Thank you for your help.

~Zack A.

The13ig13adWolf · 02-22-2006, 01:57 PM

you'd be better off with a full body split 3 times per week IMO. reason: it doesn't take 6 days for any one muscle group to recover so you're not getting as much bang for your workout buck as you could be.

**P-funk** · 02-22-2006, 02:01 PM

i agree with her. ^^^

NMOY · 02-22-2006, 02:11 PM

thank you for your advice, I did a much more intense workout schedule for sometime, and am cutting back for a bit.

I just wanted to make sure that working my shoulders as a major part of an exercise on Monday, wouldnt negativly effect me working shoulders as a minor part of my chest day on Wednesday with only one day of rest inbetween - same deal for triceps.

My body just happens to respond better to more intense workouts less frequently.
I also Row heavily inbetween these workout days (ie tues/thurs/sat.)

**P-funk** · 02-22-2006, 02:14 PM

1) total body can be really intense.

2) your chest (pectoralis major) crosses the shoulder and makes up the shoulder structure so why not work chest and shoulders on the same day to avoid over working a muscle that is already grossely activated in our daily lives?

NMOY · 02-22-2006, 02:23 PM

I wasn't aware of that Anatomy-Factoid, thank you. In light of that, pretending that I still want to stay with my 3 day split, spaced the way it is, would you recommend that I have:

Monday: Legs + BICEPS
Wednesday: Chest + SHOULDERS
Friday: Back + TRICEPS

therefore switching biceps and shoulders, so chest and shoulders can be worked together...
thank you for your help.

Zack.

**P-funk** · 02-22-2006, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NMOY

I wasn't aware of that Anatomy-Factoid, thank you. In light of that, pretending that I still want to stay with my 3 day split, spaced the way it is, would you recommend that I have:

Monday: Legs + BICEPS
Wednesday: Chest + SHOULDERS
Friday: Back + TRICEPS

therefore switching biceps and shoulders, so chest and shoulders can be worked together...
thank you for your help.

Zack.

not bad....how about:

monday- legs
wed- chest, shoulders and triceps
fri- back and biceps

that way you can group your pushes adn pulls in the upper body together since they work together....remember..all these muscles cross the shoulder joint.

NMOY · 02-22-2006, 02:30 PM

Thank you for all the assistance.
-In the past when I have done triceps WITH chest, I have felt that my tri's were so exhausted from all the chest exercises, that I didn't have enough juice left, and that 3 diff tri exercises ONTOP of all the tricep work from the Chest stuff would be considered overtraining somehow.

Is this not so?

The13ig13adWolf · 02-22-2006, 02:40 PM

why would you want three tricep isolation movements following chest? triceps are a significantly smaller muscle and yes, IMO you'd be overtraining them.

**P-funk** · 02-22-2006, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The13ig13adWolf

why would you want three tricep isolation movements following chest? triceps are a significantly smaller muscle and yes, IMO you'd be overtraining them.

also, if your intensity is high with the chest and shoulder work you wont need all that tricep work anyway because they will have already gotten hit pretty hard.

The13ig13adWolf · 02-22-2006, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

also, if your intensity is high with the chest and shoulder work you wont need all that tricep work anyway because they will have already gotten hit pretty hard.

NMOY · 02-22-2006, 02:45 PM

So lets say I'm doing:
Bench Press 4 sets-
Dumbell Flys 3 sets-
Incline Dumbell Press 3 sets-
for chest.

how many isolation exercises would you suggest ontop of that to accomplish a thorough workout for triceps and/or shoulders??
(thanks again I appreciate this)
one more for tri's? *extentions?
and maybe both front and side shoulder flys?

*I assume whatever the answer to this is also applies directly to working biceps after several back exercises, in the range of 1-2 more bicep iso's after 3 back...?

The13ig13adWolf · 02-22-2006, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NMOY

So lets say I'm doing:
Bench Press 4 sets-
Dumbell Flys 3 sets-
Incline Dumbell Press 3 sets-
for chest.

how many isolation exercises would you suggest ontop of that to accomplish a thorough workout for triceps and/or shoulders??
(thanks again I appreciate this)
one more for tri's? *extentions?
and maybe both front and side shoulder flys?

why 4 sets for BP and 3 for the other exercises? how many reps? just trying to understand your loading parameters. i'd scrap the Flys and add Military Press (or Push Presses) and Skull Crushers.

Quote:

*I assume whatever the answer to this is also applies directly to working biceps after several back exercises, in the range of 1-2 more bicep iso's after 3 back...?

yes. one is plenty IMO.

NMOY · 02-22-2006, 07:23 PM

I have read around that it's optimal to do 3 exercises per muscle group, thats why I do bench, incline press, and decline flys, to work every part of the pec in different way. I was doing 4 sets of Bench because It's what I consider the core exercise for my chest.
-I typically do 2 x 6 bench-press, drop weight a little and do 2 x 8. (4 total)
-I do 3 x 8 for Incline,
-and normally less weight: 8-10 reps flys to stretch out the pec and get a nice range of motion going.

Are you suggesting that I do:
4 sets Bench Press
4 sets Incline Press
4 sets Military Press
4 sets Scull Crushers?

If so, does that really cover all of the parts of Shoulder muscle, and is it really enough of a Chest workout?

Squaggleboggin · 02-22-2006, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NMOY

I have read around that it's optimal to do 3 exercises per muscle group

Consider all the ways in which individuals vary. There is really no magic number that is optimal for all people. People have different goals and respond differently to different parameters. There's no way that I'd work my biceps three times a week (with any goals in mind) and get steady progress. It might work for you, but it won't work for everyone. Just wanted to point that out.

Squaggleboggin · 02-22-2006, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NMOY

thats why I do bench, incline press, and decline flys, to work every part of the pec in different way. I was doing 4 sets of Bench because It's what I consider the core exercise for my chest.
-I typically do 2 x 6 bench-press, drop weight a little and do 2 x 8. (4 total)
-I do 3 x 8 for Incline,
-and normally less weight: 8-10 reps flys to stretch out the pec and get a nice range of motion going.

Are you suggesting that I do:
4 sets Bench Press
4 sets Incline Press
4 sets Military Press
4 sets Scull Crushers?

If so, does that really cover all of the parts of Shoulder muscle, and is it really enough of a Chest workout?

Firstly, a muscle is either stimulated or it's not. You can't work just one part of a muscle. Think of driving a car. Either the whole car moves or it doesn't. You can't accelerate and leave behind part of the car (assuming it's not a POS).

You're covering movements in which you press overhead, inclined, and straight out in front of you. This covers several ROMs and they will all work the triceps and pecs to some degree. It's enough of a chest workout if you work HARD. If not, you can do 100 exercises and see no progress if you're giving 1% to each one. You really only need to stick to extremely basic things and give them 100% to see gains in any way.

**CowPimp** · 02-22-2006, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NMOY

Are you suggesting that I do:
4 sets Bench Press
4 sets Incline Press
4 sets Military Press
4 sets Scull Crushers?

If so, does that really cover all of the parts of Shoulder muscle, and is it really enough of a Chest workout?

What are your goals anyway? If they are mass gains/cosmetic, then just make sure you are eating a good diet. That routine would work fine.

NMOY · 02-22-2006, 10:47 PM

I'm looking to gradually gain mass and strength while staying in good health, and hope to achieve that by hitting every part of the body hard at least once a week along with cardio for every part of the body throughout the week, but not enough to negate all of my caloric intake.

Healthy - Cut - Lean

**CowPimp** · 02-22-2006, 10:54 PM

Any particular reason why you want to achieve that by hitting each body part once per week? I mean it's perfectly plausible, but I don't see why it must be that way...

02-22-2006, 01:51 PM	#1
NMOY Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 127	Downtime: Not enough in my Routine? Hello all, I'm new to the forums. I workout regularly at the gym with friends, and attend Ithaca College. I have been considering a new 3 day Split with opposing muscle groups to optimize time, and would love some input on whether or not I'm giving myself enough recovery time: I was thinking about the following: ------------------------- Monday: Legs + Shoulders. ~ Wednesday: Chest + Biceps ~ Friday: Back + Triceps ~ ------------------------- My Question: Will this Split leave enough time for my Shoulders(Mon.) to heal before Bench Press/inclining(Wed.), and for my triceps worked while benching(Wed.) to heal before working them specifically Friday? Thank you for your help. ~Zack A.
NMOY Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 127

02-22-2006, 01:57 PM	#2
The13ig13adWolf IM Ball Buster Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: I win... Posts: 1,367	you'd be better off with a full body split 3 times per week IMO. reason: it doesn't take 6 days for any one muscle group to recover so you're not getting as much bang for your workout buck as you could be.
	Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar territory. -G. Behn

02-22-2006, 02:01 PM	#3
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,645	i agree with her. ^^^
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! Ivonne's Blog on Health and Wellness! Looking for online training/coaching/consulting? --> Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

02-22-2006, 02:11 PM	#4
NMOY Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 127	thank you for your advice, I did a much more intense workout schedule for sometime, and am cutting back for a bit. I just wanted to make sure that working my shoulders as a major part of an exercise on Monday, wouldnt negativly effect me working shoulders as a minor part of my chest day on Wednesday with only one day of rest inbetween - same deal for triceps. My body just happens to respond better to more intense workouts less frequently. I also Row heavily inbetween these workout days (ie tues/thurs/sat.)
NMOY Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 127

02-22-2006, 02:14 PM	#5
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,645	1) total body can be really intense. 2) your chest (pectoralis major) crosses the shoulder and makes up the shoulder structure so why not work chest and shoulders on the same day to avoid over working a muscle that is already grossely activated in our daily lives?
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! Ivonne's Blog on Health and Wellness! Looking for online training/coaching/consulting? --> Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

02-22-2006, 02:23 PM	#6
NMOY Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 127	I wasn't aware of that Anatomy-Factoid, thank you. In light of that, pretending that I still want to stay with my 3 day split, spaced the way it is, would you recommend that I have: Monday: Legs + BICEPS Wednesday: Chest + SHOULDERS Friday: Back + TRICEPS therefore switching biceps and shoulders, so chest and shoulders can be worked together... thank you for your help. Zack.
NMOY Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 127

02-22-2006, 02:30 PM	#8
NMOY Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 127	Thank you for all the assistance. -In the past when I have done triceps WITH chest, I have felt that my tri's were so exhausted from all the chest exercises, that I didn't have enough juice left, and that 3 diff tri exercises ONTOP of all the tricep work from the Chest stuff would be considered overtraining somehow. Is this not so?
NMOY Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 127

02-22-2006, 02:40 PM	#9
The13ig13adWolf IM Ball Buster Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: I win... Posts: 1,367	why would you want three tricep isolation movements following chest? triceps are a significantly smaller muscle and yes, IMO you'd be overtraining them.
	Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar territory. -G. Behn

02-22-2006, 02:45 PM	#12
NMOY Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 127	So lets say I'm doing: Bench Press 4 sets- Dumbell Flys 3 sets- Incline Dumbell Press 3 sets- for chest. how many isolation exercises would you suggest ontop of that to accomplish a thorough workout for triceps and/or shoulders?? (thanks again I appreciate this) one more for tri's? extentions? and maybe both front and side shoulder flys? I assume whatever the answer to this is also applies directly to working biceps after several back exercises, in the range of 1-2 more bicep iso's after 3 back...?
NMOY Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 127

02-22-2006, 07:23 PM	#14
NMOY Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 127	I have read around that it's optimal to do 3 exercises per muscle group, thats why I do bench, incline press, and decline flys, to work every part of the pec in different way. I was doing 4 sets of Bench because It's what I consider the core exercise for my chest. -I typically do 2 x 6 bench-press, drop weight a little and do 2 x 8. (4 total) -I do 3 x 8 for Incline, -and normally less weight: 8-10 reps flys to stretch out the pec and get a nice range of motion going. Are you suggesting that I do: 4 sets Bench Press 4 sets Incline Press 4 sets Military Press 4 sets Scull Crushers? If so, does that really cover all of the parts of Shoulder muscle, and is it really enough of a Chest workout?
NMOY Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 127

02-22-2006, 10:47 PM	#18
NMOY Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 127	I'm looking to gradually gain mass and strength while staying in good health, and hope to achieve that by hitting every part of the body hard at least once a week along with cardio for every part of the body throughout the week, but not enough to negate all of my caloric intake. Healthy - Cut - Lean
NMOY Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 127

02-22-2006, 10:54 PM	#19
CowPimp Fueled by Testosterone Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 15,434	Any particular reason why you want to achieve that by hitting each body part once per week? I mean it's perfectly plausible, but I don't see why it must be that way...
	The only time it's bad to feel the burn is when you're peeing... CowPimp Picks Up Heavy Shit MySpace YouTube Videos

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