Ridiculously sore

Flex · 03-15-2006, 08:32 PM

I realize DOMS has a lot do with sleep (or lack thereof). And I definitely don't get enough sleep at night (average about 6 hours/night and 2 hour nap everyday), but i mean DAMN, after 9 years of training, i still get like immobily sore.
Granted i work my fuckin ass off when I'm training, and I train very intense. But I only average about 10 working sets/big body part and a little less on smaller ones, and I tend to use higher reps and get a crazy pump/burn.

For instance, I deadlifted yesterday. I hit 475x8, then 405x10. I've been deadlifting consistently for a year or so now, but my lower back still gets ridiculously sore today and for the next few days.

When I hit legs on Fridays, i literally can't walk right until the next Friday, when it's time to hit legs again.

I eat my ass off, and drink a ton of water. Is it all due to not enought sleep?
Wtf?

soxmuscle · 03-15-2006, 08:35 PM

I don't get enough sleep, and actually have identical sleeping patterns to yours ironically, so I won't be of much help here.

However, I have never been of the belief that because I've been training for a certain amount of time that I won't go sore regardless of what I do. Some of my friends don't get sore at all. Personally, I think thats a sign of not pushing your body as hard as it needs to be pushed for hypertrophy.

**Dale Mabry** · 03-15-2006, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flex

I realize DOMS has a lot do with sleep (or lack thereof).

So you think about DOMS while you are laying in bed alone at night trying to sleep?

Ghey!

Flex · 03-15-2006, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

So you think about DOMS while you are laying in bed alone at night trying to sleep?

Ghey!

You're a funny guy, Dale, I like you.

That's why i'm going to kill you last.

Flex · 03-15-2006, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

So you think about DOMS while you are laying in bed alone at night trying to sleep?

Ghey!

And yes, I always think about your mother, Dominque Mabry, before i go to bed at night.

Only woman i've ever met that can suck a golfball through a gardenhose.

**Dale Mabry** · 03-15-2006, 08:54 PM

You know whom you were thinking about.

DOMS · 03-15-2006, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

So you think about DOMS while you are laying in bed alone at night trying to sleep?

Ghey!

**Dale Mabry** · 03-15-2006, 09:25 PM

Speak of the devil.

DOMS · 03-15-2006, 09:28 PM

Who the fuck told you?!!!

DOMS · 03-15-2006, 09:28 PM

I was watching the latest episode of The Shield and felt a disturbance in my crotch. I figured it must be you posting about me, so I logged on.

**CowPimp** · 03-15-2006, 09:32 PM

Eating a ton doesn't necessarily mean eating healthy. I think diet is a more likely culprit. It sounds to me like you are getting enough sleep, unless it is low quality constantly interrupted sleep.

You may just push yourself more than most people. A lot of people have mental barriers that make them hit mental failure before muscular failure. You may lack that barrier.

Unfortunately, in the end, the true cause of soreness is still unknown. It has something to do with inflammation. You could do things to reduce this inflammation, and it may help. You could also consider a higher frequency routine (I know, I pimp them far too much) as you would be taking on less volume each session and forcing your body to recover faster.

Do you do anything special to aid in recovery? Stretching, active recovery, contrast showers, etc?

Flex · 03-15-2006, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

Eating a ton doesn't necessarily mean eating healthy. I think diet is a more likely culprit. It sounds to me like you are getting enough sleep, unless it is low quality constantly interrupted sleep.

You may just push yourself more than most people. A lot of people have mental barriers that make them hit mental failure before muscular failure. You may lack that barrier.

Unfortunately, in the end, the true cause of soreness is still unknown. It has something to do with inflammation. You could do things to reduce this inflammation, and it may help. You could also consider a higher frequency routine (I know, I pimp them far too much) as you would be taking on less volume each session and forcing your body to recover faster.

Do you do anything special to aid in recovery? Stretching, active recovery, contrast showers, etc?

As far as diet, I get a ton of protein and carbs in each day.

I hear ya about the mental barriers, and i usually leave those in the rearview mirror.

I don't understand how higher frequency would help.....as I don't do very high volume as it is

And as far as aiding recovery........i stretch randomly during wo's as well as just a tad after each wo (as little as possible haha). I don't know what active recovery is.......and by contrast showers, you mean hot then cold? No, I don't do those.

But keep the suggestions/ideas coming.......very informative

Brutus_G · 03-15-2006, 09:51 PM

Is doms necessary to build muscle? http://www-rohan.sdsu.edu/~ens632/DamageRepair.htm
"There is a vast body of research indicating that DOMS is most highly correlated with the eccentric portion of a given lift. There is also evidence the same portion of the lift is the most likely to cause hypertrophy.

Does this mean one indicates the other? NO. But they are closely connected, clearly."
Anthony Roberts

"I think it's an indicator of unfamiliar stimulus... something your body isn't accustomed to. I have a hard time believing it's an indicator of growth anecdotally for this simple fact.

my arms are my easiest body part to grow... they NEVER get sore
my legs are my hardest body part to grow... they are almost always sore from a workout"

-Layne

Just curious to hear your views on this subject

**Dale Mabry** · 03-16-2006, 05:30 AM

There is certainly a relationship between DOMS and hypertrophy, you can throw in emphasis on the evventric portioon as well since it is highly related to both as well.

Flex, do you hit up food relatively soon after training? Active recovery would be to just do some low intensity activity afterwards and the day after to get blood flowing. Myofascial release on a foam roller helps with DOMS and contrasts showers have been shown to be effective, but they are a real bitch, at least for me.

**CowPimp** · 03-16-2006, 05:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flex

As far as diet, I get a ton of protein and carbs in each day.

How about your fat intake? Is that sufficient? Do you get a decent amount of healthy fats in your diet? Balancing out the ratio of omega-3 to omega-6 fatty acids is supposed to help with inflammation of all kinds, which (in theory) should also help reduce DOMS.

Quote:

I hear ya about the mental barriers, and i usually leave those in the rearview mirror.

Heh, good man.

Quote:

I don't understand how higher frequency would help.....as I don't do very high volume as it is

Because you're doing less each session, so the soreness won't be as bad. However, at the same time there will still be some damage. If you hit the muscle again while it's still in some stage of the healing process then your body is going to be forced to adapt by improving the efficiency of this healing process.

Quote:

And as far as aiding recovery........i stretch randomly during wo's as well as just a tad after each wo (as little as possible haha). I don't know what active recovery is.......and by contrast showers, you mean hot then cold? No, I don't do those.

Try stepping up your stretching sessions after your workouts. Active recovery consists of some light cardio, or any kind of activity that is low to moderate intensity but gets the blood flowing so that the muscles are pumped with nutrient-rich blood. Yes, that is what I mean by contrast showers. Check out this article, it contains a couple of other tips too:

http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle....5-015-training

gr81 · 03-16-2006, 06:23 AM

Quote:

For instance, I deadlifted yesterday. I hit 475x8, then 405x10. I've been deadlifting consistently for a year or so now, but my lower back still gets ridiculously sore today and for the next few days.

yo my man, how much specific core training do you do? I mean I know the dead is great but trust, I have lifting partners who have been deadin heavy for 10 + years with no real ab strength training/ specific lowerback training and they are payin for it. Core is so important and I have defn found after having been training my abs hella heavy and consistent for about two years that my lower back is much more suited to the powerlifts. I know I kinda went off topic from teh soarness and if you do the core training forgive me, just a thought though.

Quote:

When I hit legs on Fridays, i literally can't walk right until the next Friday, when it's time to hit legs again.

as for this, I am the same way and kindof always have been. I think its just the price we pay for hitting the legs as hard as we do, right

Quote:

Eating a ton doesn't necessarily mean eating healthy. I think diet is a more likely culprit. It sounds to me like you are getting enough sleep, unless it is low quality constantly interrupted sleep.You may just push yourself more than most people

I feel this, but also what are your pre/post workout activities. like what kindof warmup do you do. and someone just mentioned it that certain kinds of stretching can help post WO. really thou man, its just the cost of doin business mayn, and personally I feel quite satisfied in a masochist kindof way when my legs feel that soar..lol. is the soarness a problem for you brotha?

Flex · 03-16-2006, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gr81

really thou man, its just the cost of doin business mayn, and personally I feel quite satisfied in a masochist kindof way when my legs feel that soar..lol. is the soarness a problem for you brotha?

As always, you put it in ways I agree with haha
I guess that is just the cost of BB.

Thanks for all your tips, boys

Oh well, fuck it. I'll just go on the rest of my life not being able to walk 6 out of 7 days/week haha

**P-funk** · 03-16-2006, 06:01 PM

I don't get enough sleep either and it fucks with my recovery and I am always sore. It sucks but that is the way it is right now. That is why i only train 3 days a week. Hopefully once i move I will get more sleep and rest and be able to go back to training 4 days a week and do a modified westide program with the olympic lifts.

**Dale Mabry** · 03-16-2006, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

I don't get enough sleep either and it fucks with my recovery and I am always sore. It sucks but that is the way it is right now. That is why i only train 3 days a week. Hopefully once i move I will get more sleep and rest and be able to go back to training 4 days a week and do a modified westide program with the olympic lifts.

My internal clock seems to be set at about the same time as AZ.

gr81 · 03-16-2006, 06:03 PM

Quote:

and do a modified westide program with the olympic lifts.

sounds pretty sweet there Pman

**P-funk** · 03-16-2006, 06:05 PM

yea thanks gr8. I have some ideas. were have you been?

lol@dale.

gr81 · 03-16-2006, 07:04 PM

workin, school, training, keeps a guy pretty busy for sure. the backs lookin pretty solid in that AVI brotha

oh btw I just love that Mel Siff quote in your sig man, I am always telling that to a buddy of mine who is just constantly running cycles but never makin any real signifigant progress.. its so frustrating to listen to him talk like he's the shit

Super Hulk · 03-16-2006, 07:13 PM

how long do you rest between sets ?

03-15-2006, 08:32 PM	#1
Flex FLEXecutioner Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Pomping Iyuhn Posts: 6,278 Photos: 2	Ridiculously sore I realize DOMS has a lot do with sleep (or lack thereof). And I definitely don't get enough sleep at night (average about 6 hours/night and 2 hour nap everyday), but i mean DAMN, after 9 years of training, i still get like immobily sore. Granted i work my fuckin ass off when I'm training, and I train very intense. But I only average about 10 working sets/big body part and a little less on smaller ones, and I tend to use higher reps and get a crazy pump/burn. For instance, I deadlifted yesterday. I hit 475x8, then 405x10. I've been deadlifting consistently for a year or so now, but my lower back still gets ridiculously sore today and for the next few days. When I hit legs on Fridays, i literally can't walk right until the next Friday, when it's time to hit legs again. I eat my ass off, and drink a ton of water. Is it all due to not enought sleep? Wtf?
	You're a funny guy, Sully, I like you. Dat's why I'm going to kill you lahst. * Got juice?Need Motivation?How to Train* Arnold vs. Ronnie vs. Haney vs. Sergio YEAH BUDDY...LIGHT WEIGHT!Ahhnold*

03-15-2006, 08:35 PM	#2
soxmuscle do work son Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: I will eat your face Posts: 8,283 Photos: 10	I don't get enough sleep, and actually have identical sleeping patterns to yours ironically, so I won't be of much help here. However, I have never been of the belief that because I've been training for a certain amount of time that I won't go sore regardless of what I do. Some of my friends don't get sore at all. Personally, I think thats a sign of not pushing your body as hard as it needs to be pushed for hypertrophy.
	Age: 20 \| Height: 5'7" \| Weight: 150 lbs \| Penis: 12 inches

03-15-2006, 08:54 PM	#6
Dale Mabry Moderator Moderator Join Date: May 2003 Location: Elsewhere Posts: 13,844 Photos: 10	You know whom you were thinking about.
	If sense were common, everyone would have it. 4/2007-Current 75th Ranked most popular image 1 spot behind Prince's bulge...

03-15-2006, 09:25 PM	#8
Dale Mabry Moderator Moderator Join Date: May 2003 Location: Elsewhere Posts: 13,844 Photos: 10	Speak of the devil.
	If sense were common, everyone would have it. 4/2007-Current 75th Ranked most popular image 1 spot behind Prince's bulge...

03-15-2006, 09:28 PM	#9
DOMS Metrosexual Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: In a van, down by the river... Posts: 21,514 Photos: 5	Who the fuck told you?!!!
	I never lie because I don't fear anyone. You only lie when you're afraid.—John Gotti

03-15-2006, 09:32 PM	#11
CowPimp Fueled by Testosterone Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 15,405	Eating a ton doesn't necessarily mean eating healthy. I think diet is a more likely culprit. It sounds to me like you are getting enough sleep, unless it is low quality constantly interrupted sleep. You may just push yourself more than most people. A lot of people have mental barriers that make them hit mental failure before muscular failure. You may lack that barrier. Unfortunately, in the end, the true cause of soreness is still unknown. It has something to do with inflammation. You could do things to reduce this inflammation, and it may help. You could also consider a higher frequency routine (I know, I pimp them far too much) as you would be taking on less volume each session and forcing your body to recover faster. Do you do anything special to aid in recovery? Stretching, active recovery, contrast showers, etc?
	The only time it's bad to feel the burn is when you're peeing... CowPimp Picks Up Heavy Shit MySpace YouTube Videos

03-15-2006, 09:51 PM	#13
Brutus_G Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 5,124 Photos: 24	Is doms necessary to build muscle? http://www-rohan.sdsu.edu/~ens632/DamageRepair.htm "There is a vast body of research indicating that DOMS is most highly correlated with the eccentric portion of a given lift. There is also evidence the same portion of the lift is the most likely to cause hypertrophy. Does this mean one indicates the other? NO. But they are closely connected, clearly." Anthony Roberts "I think it's an indicator of unfamiliar stimulus... something your body isn't accustomed to. I have a hard time believing it's an indicator of growth anecdotally for this simple fact. my arms are my easiest body part to grow... they NEVER get sore my legs are my hardest body part to grow... they are almost always sore from a workout" -Layne Just curious to hear your views on this subject

03-16-2006, 05:30 AM	#14
Dale Mabry Moderator Moderator Join Date: May 2003 Location: Elsewhere Posts: 13,844 Photos: 10	There is certainly a relationship between DOMS and hypertrophy, you can throw in emphasis on the evventric portioon as well since it is highly related to both as well. Flex, do you hit up food relatively soon after training? Active recovery would be to just do some low intensity activity afterwards and the day after to get blood flowing. Myofascial release on a foam roller helps with DOMS and contrasts showers have been shown to be effective, but they are a real bitch, at least for me.
	If sense were common, everyone would have it. 4/2007-Current 75th Ranked most popular image 1 spot behind Prince's bulge...

03-16-2006, 06:01 PM	#18
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,435	I don't get enough sleep either and it fucks with my recovery and I am always sore. It sucks but that is the way it is right now. That is why i only train 3 days a week. Hopefully once i move I will get more sleep and rest and be able to go back to training 4 days a week and do a modified westide program with the olympic lifts.
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! http://ivonneberkowitz.blogspot.com/....check out Ivonne's new blog! Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

03-16-2006, 06:05 PM	#21
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,435	yea thanks gr8. I have some ideas. were have you been? lol@dale.
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! http://ivonneberkowitz.blogspot.com/....check out Ivonne's new blog! Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

03-16-2006, 07:04 PM	#22
gr81 You Lack Intensity!!!! Elite Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Just below our civil disguise Posts: 6,378 Photos: 10	workin, school, training, keeps a guy pretty busy for sure. the backs lookin pretty solid in that AVI brotha oh btw I just love that Mel Siff quote in your sig man, I am always telling that to a buddy of mine who is just constantly running cycles but never makin any real signifigant progress.. its so frustrating to listen to him talk like he's the shit
	Testosterone Site/Elite Fitness-Dave Tate/West Side Barbell/Berardi Nutrition & Sports Performance/Steroid Laws- Rick Collins/John Defendis Intensity or Insanity articles/Save the Supersonics

03-16-2006, 07:13 PM	#23
Super Hulk Registered User Join Date: May 2005 Location: A Dark Cave Some Where Posts: 839 Photos: 18	how long do you rest between sets ?
	http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s7/graphics/711_06.jpg ========================================== Starting Weight:248....CurrentWeight=196..GoalWeight=8%bf Stats:........................... Goals: (April 1).........................(by Oct 1) Bench: 220ish..................Bench:400x1 Leg Press: 880 x 5 ish.......Leg Press:1000 Mil Press:150 ish x4 ish......Mil Press:250 http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/678...ta2copy4nh.jpg

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