Starr 5x5 question

biggun1234 · 04-04-2006, 01:31 PM

I know I've been asking a ton of questions on the Bill Starr 5x5, but I want to make sure and get it right. How hard should I be working when lifting with this routine? Would I want to do my max weight on every last set of 5x5? If so, what kind of weight should I be doing for the 1st,2nd,3rd and 4th set? Also, should I be going up 2.5% every set, every workout, or every week? thanks a bunch! sorry for all the questions...

**P-funk** · 04-04-2006, 02:24 PM

I believe he has a set up for the percentages you are working at.

yes, you should be working very hard on this program. it is very demanding. you are squatting a lot!!

On the squats there is one max day where you are going for a max 5 rep set. On monday I believe it is 5x5 all sets with a constant weight, something like 80% of 1RM? Or I believe the traditional program was a percentage of your max 5...can't remeber. On the middle day, you are doing something like a deadlift or a front squat....something that is different then the back squat. or there was another perentage that you are supposed to take for the back squat on that day.

the program has been changed by so many people so many times that I can't remeber what the exact program used to be.

post what you are going to do complete with exercises, sets, reps and percentages you are using and I will try and help you create something useable.

biggun1234 · 04-04-2006, 03:22 PM

Cool thanks! I have one quick question before I post all of the info... If I have plenty of time to lift, should I lift somewhere in the range of 4-5 days instead? I think three would be most effective for muscle growth and strength, but I'm still learning. Anyways, Here is what I am going to do:
To me, Its kind of confusing on paper. I'm not changing anything from the orignal workout. the original workout is posted here for reference: http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow...Linear_5x5.htm

Monday
Squat 5x5 Ramping(does this mean to work up to that weight, and not begin with it? Or should I be maxing every set?) weight to top set of 5 (which should equal the previous
Friday's heavy triple)
Bench 5x5 Ramping weight to top set of 5 (which should equal the previous
Friday's heavy triple)
Barbell Row 5x5 Ramping weight to top set of 5 (which should equal the
previous Friday's heavy triple)
Assistance: 2 sets of weighted hypers and 4 sets of weighted sit-ups

Wednesday
Squat 4x5 First 3 sets are the same as Monday, the 4th set is repeating the
3rd set again
Incline or Military 4x5 Ramping weight to top set of 5
Deadlift 4x5 Ramping weight to top set of 5
Assistance: 3 sets of sit-ups

Friday
Squat 4x5, 1x3, 1x8 (6 sets total?)First 4 sets are the same as Monday's, the triple is 2.5% above your Monday top set of 5, use the weight from the 3rd set for a final set of 8
Bench 4x5, 1x3, 1x8 First 4 sets are the same as Monday's, the triple is 2.5% above your Monday top set of 5, use the weight from the 3rd set for a final set of 8
Barbell Row 4x5, 1x3, 1x8 First 4 sets are the same as Monday's, the triple is 2.5% above your Monday top set of 5, use the weight from the 3rd set for a final set of 8
Assistance: 3 sets of weighted dips (5-8 reps), 3 sets of barbell curls and 3 sets of triceps extensions (8 reps)

More to this post:
I really like that starr routine; however, I also like this upper - lower split routine that CowPimp has setup.

Bodybuilder – Undulating Periodization

Monday – Upper:

Overhead Press
Week A: 8x3 @ 5RM - 75sec RI
Week B: 3x12 @ 15RM – 30sec RI
Week C: 4x6 @ 8RM – 60sec RI

Chinups
Week A: 8x3 @ 5RM - 75sec RI
Week B: 3x12 @ 15RM – 30sec RI
Week C: 4x6 @ 8RM – 60sec RI

DB Decline Press
Week A: 4x10 @ 12RM – 45sec RI
Week B: 5x5 @ 7RM – 75sec RI
Week C: 5x8 @ 10RM – 60sec RI

Seated Cable Rows
Week A: 4x10 @ 12RM – 45sec RI
Week B: 5x5 @ 7RM – 75sec RI
Week C: 5x8 @ 10RM – 60sec RI

Wednesday – Lower:

Squats
Week A: 8x3 @ 5RM - 75sec RI
Week B: 3x12 @ 15RM – 30sec RI
Week C: 4x6 @ 8RM – 60sec RI

SLDLs
Week A: 8x3 @ 5RM - 75sec RI
Week B: 3x12 @ 15RM – 30sec RI
Week C: 4x6 @ 8RM – 60sec RI

Lunges
Week A: 4x10 @ 12RM – 45sec RI
Week B: 5x5 @ 7RM – 75sec RI
Week C: 5x8 @ 10RM – 60sec RI

Situps
Week A: 4x10 @ 12RM – 45sec RI
Week B: 5x5 @ 7RM – 75sec RI
Week C: 5x8 @ 10RM – 60sec RI

Friday – Upper

Bench Press
Week A: 8x3 @ 5RM - 75sec RI
Week B: 3x12 @ 15RM – 30sec RI
Week C: 4x6 @ 8RM – 60sec RI

Yates' Rows
Week A: 8x3 @ 5RM - 75sec RI
Week B: 3x12 @ 15RM – 30sec RI
Week C: 4x6 @ 8RM – 60sec RI

Dips
Week A: 4x10 @ 12RM – 45sec RI
Week B: 5x5 @ 7RM – 75sec RI
Week C: 5x8 @ 10RM – 60sec RI

Pulldowns
Week A: 4x10 @ 12RM – 45sec RI
Week B: 5x5 @ 7RM – 75sec RI
Week C: 5x8 @ 10RM – 60sec RI

Sunday – Lower:

Deadlifts
Week A: 8x3 @ 5RM - 75sec RI
Week B: 3x12 @ 15RM – 30sec RI
Week C: 4x6 @ 8RM – 60sec RI

Split Squats
Week A: 8x3 @ 5RM - 75sec RI
Week B: 3x12 @ 15RM – 30sec RI
Week C: 4x6 @ 8RM – 60sec RI

Glute Ham Raises
Week A: 4x10 @ 12RM – 45sec RI
Week B: 5x5 @ 7RM – 75sec RI
Week C: 5x8 @ 10RM – 60sec RI

Hyperextensions
Week A: 4x10 @ 12RM – 45sec RI
Week B: 5x5 @ 7RM – 75sec RI
Week C: 5x8 @ 10RM – 60sec RI

Choices, choices.....Which do you recommend? Maybe I'll do the Starr routine for a month, then switch to CowPimps and so on...???

**P-funk** · 04-04-2006, 08:15 PM

both are good routines.

the one you lied out looks like the traditional bill starr routine except I believe on wed. there was also a deadlift of some kind (RDL or conventional deadlift) in a 5x5 manner as well.

The routine would go something like:

mon- 5x5 using a weight that is around 80-85% of your 1RM (6-8RM)..this is your "medium intensity day". Weight increases 5-10lbs each week depending on last weeks difficulty.

wed- 5x5. this is your light day....you want to go with about 15-20% less weight then what you performed 5x5 with on monday.

fri- 1x5. this is your high intensity day. this is where you are going to work up to that max set of 5 reps. I say 1x5 beacause it is only the last set that counts. The other 4 sets are preparation sets for that big set. Again. you don't want to go nuts and start with to high of weight. try and set records in week 3. So if 200lbs if you max set of 5 currently.....start with 190lbs for week 1, week 2 work up to 195-200 and then week 3 break the record and go for 205. Week for try and again and go for 210 etc....

The option of which routine to choose is up to you. The Starr routine is pretty flexable as well. There are other things you can do with it to make it more towards you goals. The volume is high. After 4-5 weeks I would taper it down, maybe 3x3, and keep that intensity up. That would be accumulation/intensification right there. Other exercises could be swapped in the upper body too.....the routine is really squat intensive. it is a high volume squat routine. It doesn't mean that you have to do the same things for the upper body. Also, I have seen it on day 2 (your light day) as lower intensity leg exercises like front squats to give yourself a break. Usually in the intensification period you would drop squatting all together and go with the deadlift, leaving the squating to just two days (mon and fri).

hope that helps.

biggun1234 · 04-04-2006, 11:20 PM

Yes that helps alot! So in all reality, the 1st 4 sets are just warm ups and practice to prepare for the last 5 rep max set? Its basically just like most workouts in those terms. For some reason I was all mixed up lol. Hey thanks alot I appreciate the help!

I noticed you said on Wed there is usually some kind of deadlift, but isn't there a dead lift 5x5 in there already?

Lastly, With a 225lb 5 rep max, The calculator on the starr routine website told me that Set #1 should be 105lb, set #2 should be 146, and so on...does that seem a little low??

**P-funk** · 04-05-2006, 04:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biggun1234

Yes that helps alot! So in all reality, the 1st 4 sets are just warm ups and practice to prepare for the last 5 rep max set? Its basically just like most workouts in those terms. For some reason I was all mixed up lol. Hey thanks alot I appreciate the help!

that only applies for the heavy day, friday. On monday the weight is the same weight for all 5x5 and it is at about your 6RM.

Quote:

I noticed you said on Wed there is usually some kind of deadlift, but isn't there a dead lift 5x5 in there already?

yes, I put it in. I believe he may have included squats on that day as well. But I can't remeber. I have seen people drop the squats and just leave the deadlifts for the entire program. And I have seen peopel perform both squats and deadlifts on wed. and then in the intensification phase dro pthe squats and leave the deadlifts.

Quote:

Lastly, With a 225lb 5 rep max, The calculator on the starr routine website told me that Set #1 should be 105lb, set #2 should be 146, and so on...does that seem a little low??

that sounds about right.

biggun1234 · 04-05-2006, 06:15 PM

oh ok ok I believe I have it now. lets hope lol. Thanks again. I think I might post a journal when I start the routine next week.

**P-funk** · 04-05-2006, 09:11 PM

okay good stuff. really make sure that you understand your progressios over the course of the weeks. It is all in the program!

04-04-2006, 03:22 PM	#3
biggun1234 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 17	heres the workout Cool thanks! I have one quick question before I post all of the info... If I have plenty of time to lift, should I lift somewhere in the range of 4-5 days instead? I think three would be most effective for muscle growth and strength, but I'm still learning. Anyways, Here is what I am going to do: To me, Its kind of confusing on paper. I'm not changing anything from the orignal workout. the original workout is posted here for reference: http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow...Linear_5x5.htm Monday Squat 5x5 Ramping(does this mean to work up to that weight, and not begin with it? Or should I be maxing every set?) weight to top set of 5 (which should equal the previous Friday's heavy triple) Bench 5x5 Ramping weight to top set of 5 (which should equal the previous Friday's heavy triple) Barbell Row 5x5 Ramping weight to top set of 5 (which should equal the previous Friday's heavy triple) Assistance: 2 sets of weighted hypers and 4 sets of weighted sit-ups Wednesday Squat 4x5 First 3 sets are the same as Monday, the 4th set is repeating the 3rd set again Incline or Military 4x5 Ramping weight to top set of 5 Deadlift 4x5 Ramping weight to top set of 5 Assistance: 3 sets of sit-ups Friday Squat 4x5, 1x3, 1x8 (6 sets total?)First 4 sets are the same as Monday's, the triple is 2.5% above your Monday top set of 5, use the weight from the 3rd set for a final set of 8 Bench 4x5, 1x3, 1x8 First 4 sets are the same as Monday's, the triple is 2.5% above your Monday top set of 5, use the weight from the 3rd set for a final set of 8 Barbell Row 4x5, 1x3, 1x8 First 4 sets are the same as Monday's, the triple is 2.5% above your Monday top set of 5, use the weight from the 3rd set for a final set of 8 Assistance: 3 sets of weighted dips (5-8 reps), 3 sets of barbell curls and 3 sets of triceps extensions (8 reps) More to this post: I really like that starr routine; however, I also like this upper - lower split routine that CowPimp has setup. Bodybuilder – Undulating Periodization Monday – Upper: Overhead Press Week A: 8x3 @ 5RM - 75sec RI Week B: 3x12 @ 15RM – 30sec RI Week C: 4x6 @ 8RM – 60sec RI Chinups Week A: 8x3 @ 5RM - 75sec RI Week B: 3x12 @ 15RM – 30sec RI Week C: 4x6 @ 8RM – 60sec RI DB Decline Press Week A: 4x10 @ 12RM – 45sec RI Week B: 5x5 @ 7RM – 75sec RI Week C: 5x8 @ 10RM – 60sec RI Seated Cable Rows Week A: 4x10 @ 12RM – 45sec RI Week B: 5x5 @ 7RM – 75sec RI Week C: 5x8 @ 10RM – 60sec RI Wednesday – Lower: Squats Week A: 8x3 @ 5RM - 75sec RI Week B: 3x12 @ 15RM – 30sec RI Week C: 4x6 @ 8RM – 60sec RI SLDLs Week A: 8x3 @ 5RM - 75sec RI Week B: 3x12 @ 15RM – 30sec RI Week C: 4x6 @ 8RM – 60sec RI Lunges Week A: 4x10 @ 12RM – 45sec RI Week B: 5x5 @ 7RM – 75sec RI Week C: 5x8 @ 10RM – 60sec RI Situps Week A: 4x10 @ 12RM – 45sec RI Week B: 5x5 @ 7RM – 75sec RI Week C: 5x8 @ 10RM – 60sec RI Friday – Upper Bench Press Week A: 8x3 @ 5RM - 75sec RI Week B: 3x12 @ 15RM – 30sec RI Week C: 4x6 @ 8RM – 60sec RI Yates' Rows Week A: 8x3 @ 5RM - 75sec RI Week B: 3x12 @ 15RM – 30sec RI Week C: 4x6 @ 8RM – 60sec RI Dips Week A: 4x10 @ 12RM – 45sec RI Week B: 5x5 @ 7RM – 75sec RI Week C: 5x8 @ 10RM – 60sec RI Pulldowns Week A: 4x10 @ 12RM – 45sec RI Week B: 5x5 @ 7RM – 75sec RI Week C: 5x8 @ 10RM – 60sec RI Sunday – Lower: Deadlifts Week A: 8x3 @ 5RM - 75sec RI Week B: 3x12 @ 15RM – 30sec RI Week C: 4x6 @ 8RM – 60sec RI Split Squats Week A: 8x3 @ 5RM - 75sec RI Week B: 3x12 @ 15RM – 30sec RI Week C: 4x6 @ 8RM – 60sec RI Glute Ham Raises Week A: 4x10 @ 12RM – 45sec RI Week B: 5x5 @ 7RM – 75sec RI Week C: 5x8 @ 10RM – 60sec RI Hyperextensions Week A: 4x10 @ 12RM – 45sec RI Week B: 5x5 @ 7RM – 75sec RI Week C: 5x8 @ 10RM – 60sec RI Choices, choices.....Which do you recommend? Maybe I'll do the Starr routine for a month, then switch to CowPimps and so on...??? Last edited by biggun1234 : 04-04-2006 at 04:27 PM.

04-04-2006, 08:15 PM	#4
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 31,703	both are good routines. the one you lied out looks like the traditional bill starr routine except I believe on wed. there was also a deadlift of some kind (RDL or conventional deadlift) in a 5x5 manner as well. The routine would go something like: mon- 5x5 using a weight that is around 80-85% of your 1RM (6-8RM)..this is your "medium intensity day". Weight increases 5-10lbs each week depending on last weeks difficulty. wed- 5x5. this is your light day....you want to go with about 15-20% less weight then what you performed 5x5 with on monday. fri- 1x5. this is your high intensity day. this is where you are going to work up to that max set of 5 reps. I say 1x5 beacause it is only the last set that counts. The other 4 sets are preparation sets for that big set. Again. you don't want to go nuts and start with to high of weight. try and set records in week 3. So if 200lbs if you max set of 5 currently.....start with 190lbs for week 1, week 2 work up to 195-200 and then week 3 break the record and go for 205. Week for try and again and go for 210 etc.... The option of which routine to choose is up to you. The Starr routine is pretty flexable as well. There are other things you can do with it to make it more towards you goals. The volume is high. After 4-5 weeks I would taper it down, maybe 3x3, and keep that intensity up. That would be accumulation/intensification right there. Other exercises could be swapped in the upper body too.....the routine is really squat intensive. it is a high volume squat routine. It doesn't mean that you have to do the same things for the upper body. Also, I have seen it on day 2 (your light day) as lower intensity leg exercises like front squats to give yourself a break. Usually in the intensification period you would drop squatting all together and go with the deadlift, leaving the squating to just two days (mon and fri). hope that helps. E-Book: Take Charge! Everything You Need To Know To Write Your Own Training Programs Online Consulting/Program Design Reality Based Fitness Podcast Check me out on Twitter! Subscribe to our free monthly newsletter! "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

04-04-2006, 11:20 PM	#5
biggun1234 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 17	Yes that helps alot! So in all reality, the 1st 4 sets are just warm ups and practice to prepare for the last 5 rep max set? Its basically just like most workouts in those terms. For some reason I was all mixed up lol. Hey thanks alot I appreciate the help! I noticed you said on Wed there is usually some kind of deadlift, but isn't there a dead lift 5x5 in there already? Lastly, With a 225lb 5 rep max, The calculator on the starr routine website told me that Set #1 should be 105lb, set #2 should be 146, and so on...does that seem a little low?? Last edited by biggun1234 : 04-04-2006 at 11:46 PM.

04-05-2006, 09:11 PM	#8
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 31,703	okay good stuff. really make sure that you understand your progressios over the course of the weeks. It is all in the program! E-Book: Take Charge! Everything You Need To Know To Write Your Own Training Programs Online Consulting/Program Design Reality Based Fitness Podcast Check me out on Twitter! Subscribe to our free monthly newsletter! "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

04-04-2006, 01:31 PM	#1
biggun1234 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 17	Starr 5x5 question I know I've been asking a ton of questions on the Bill Starr 5x5, but I want to make sure and get it right. How hard should I be working when lifting with this routine? Would I want to do my max weight on every last set of 5x5? If so, what kind of weight should I be doing for the 1st,2nd,3rd and 4th set? Also, should I be going up 2.5% every set, every workout, or every week? thanks a bunch! sorry for all the questions...

04-04-2006, 02:24 PM	#2
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 31,703	I believe he has a set up for the percentages you are working at. yes, you should be working very hard on this program. it is very demanding. you are squatting a lot!! On the squats there is one max day where you are going for a max 5 rep set. On monday I believe it is 5x5 all sets with a constant weight, something like 80% of 1RM? Or I believe the traditional program was a percentage of your max 5...can't remeber. On the middle day, you are doing something like a deadlift or a front squat....something that is different then the back squat. or there was another perentage that you are supposed to take for the back squat on that day. the program has been changed by so many people so many times that I can't remeber what the exact program used to be. post what you are going to do complete with exercises, sets, reps and percentages you are using and I will try and help you create something useable. E-Book: Take Charge! Everything You Need To Know To Write Your Own Training Programs Online Consulting/Program Design Reality Based Fitness Podcast Check me out on Twitter! Subscribe to our free monthly newsletter! "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

04-05-2006, 06:15 PM	#7
biggun1234 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 17	oh ok ok I believe I have it now. lets hope lol. Thanks again. I think I might post a journal when I start the routine next week.