Body Part Training

Steed77 · 04-11-2006, 07:11 PM

Okay...many people here do not like body part training. I DO NOT disagree with that, but my question is this:

Wouldn't leg curls, extensions, calf raises, be body part training? So, how would you train your legs without "Body Part Training"? Squats? Lunges?

Also...Leg extensions DO build muscle mass, but is it practicle? We don't really use our legs that way, so why do it-other than to try and get more strength/muscle? Same thing with leg curls...???

I'm not trying to be a smart ass...I am just curious what everyone else thinks?

Thanks!

TJ Cline · 04-11-2006, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steed77

Okay...many people here do not like body part training. I DO NOT disagree with that, but my question is this:

Wouldn't leg curls, extensions, calf raises, be body part training? So, how would you train your legs without "Body Part Training"? Squats? Lunges?

Also...Leg extensions DO build muscle mass, but is it practicle? We don't really use our legs that way, so why do it-other than to try and get more strength/muscle? Same thing with leg curls...???

I'm not trying to be a smart ass...I am just curious what everyone else thinks?

Thanks!

Squats, SLDL and lower legs

MWpro · 04-11-2006, 07:55 PM

Someone claiming that they do not use bodypart training is not entirely true. For instance, a push day would be the same as working your chest, shoulders, and triceps. But the difference lies in using compound movements to accomplish hitting each muscle, and not trying to completely isolate a particular muscle. For example, instead of doing tricep pushdowns, do dips or CG bench press. For shoulders, instead of doing front raises, do overhead presses. That way when you get down to the smaller muscle groups such as triceps, you will only need a few sets if that to stimulate them. For quads, instead of leg extensions do squats and leg press.

AKIRA · 04-11-2006, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steed77

Okay...many people here do not like body part training. I DO NOT disagree with that, but my question is this:

Wouldn't leg curls, extensions, calf raises, be body part training? So, how would you train your legs without "Body Part Training"? Squats? Lunges?

Also...Leg extensions DO build muscle mass, but is it practicle? We don't really use our legs that way, so why do it-other than to try and get more strength/muscle? Same thing with leg curls...???

I'm not trying to be a smart ass...I am just curious what everyone else thinks?

Thanks!

A leg day or hip day is yes a bodypart day, but that doesnt mean you think of just one part of the leg. Part=Leg Not Part=quad.

Why not do squats then leg extensions?
Or Deadlifts then ham curls?
Or switch them for pre-exhaustment..?

Now you got best of both worlds.

**CowPimp** · 04-11-2006, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MWpro

Someone claiming that they do not use bodypart training is not entirely true. For instance, a push day would be the same as working your chest, shoulders, and triceps. But the difference lies in using compound movements to accomplish hitting each muscle, and not trying to completely isolate a particular muscle. For example, instead of doing tricep pushdowns, do dips or CG bench press. For shoulders, instead of doing front raises, do overhead presses. That way when you get down to the smaller muscle groups such as triceps, you will only need a few sets if that to stimulate them. For quads, instead of leg extensions do squats and leg press.

It is true. Guess what other muscles work when you are overhead pressing? Your trapezius works to superiorly rotate the scapula to get a full range of motion. Do you dumbbell pullovers for your chest? Well, you're working your lats too. You like to do WG pullups? Well, the chest assist in shoulder adduction in this movement.

Let's not discount stabilizers either. Are you retracting your scapula and firing your lats to stabilize the bar during a bench press? Well, probably not, most people bench wrong, but you should be! Are you keeping your spine in a neutral position when deadlifting? Well, that takes an assload of isometric contraction from muscles all up and down your back, but the primary movement is still hip extension and knee extension, which is carried out by the lower body.

You see a curl as a bicep movement. I see it as elbow flexion. You see the leg curl as a hamstring movement. I see it as knee flexion. You see the situp as an ab movement. I see it as hip/spinal flexion. On and on...

furion joe · 04-12-2006, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

It is true. Guess what other muscles work when you are overhead pressing? Your trapezius works to superiorly rotate the scapula to get a full range of motion. Do you dumbbell pullovers for your chest? Well, you're working your lats too. You like to do WG pullups? Well, the chest assist in shoulder adduction in this movement.

Let's not discount stabilizers either. Are you retracting your scapula and firing your lats to stabilize the bar during a bench press? Well, probably not, most people bench wrong, but you should be! Are you keeping your spine in a neutral position when deadlifting? Well, that takes an assload of isometric contraction from muscles all up and down your back, but the primary movement is still hip extension and knee extension, which is carried out by the lower body.

You see a curl as a bicep movement. I see it as elbow flexion. You see the leg curl as a hamstring movement. I see it as knee flexion. You see the situp as an ab movement. I see it as hip/spinal flexion. On and on...

Geez, what a party pooper, you take all the fun out body part training.

mike456 · 04-12-2006, 10:51 AM

Im starting bodypart training because: When i do push pull legs, on push day i do chest than shoulders than triceps, the next day only my chest is sore, but when i do triceps on a day by itself they are sore the next day, I think when im doing a push the triceps are being fatigued and not overworked, its like doing a light weight set of 20 theyll get tired but they are not being overworked IMO

well im gonna start doing this max-ot workout(body part training):
Monday Legs
Tuesday Arms(biceps, triceps, forearms), Abs
Wednesday Shoulders, Traps
Thursday Back
Friday Chest

I will still be doing compund movements, but compounds that target the muscle I am traing that day example: Chest I will do Flat Bench Press, Shoulders I will do overhead press

**P-funk** · 04-12-2006, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike456

Im starting bodypart training because: When i do push pull legs, on push day i do chest than shoulders than triceps, the next day only my chest is sore, but when i do triceps on a day by itself they are sore the next day, I think when im doing a push the triceps are being fatigued and not overworked, its like doing a light weight set of 20 theyll get tired but they are not being overworked IMO

well im gonna start doing this max-ot workout(body part training):
Monday Legs
Tuesday Arms(biceps, triceps, forearms), Abs
Wednesday Shoulders, Traps
Thursday Back
Friday Chest

I will still be doing compund movements, but compounds that target the muscle I am traing that day example: Chest I will do Flat Bench Press, Shoulders I will do overhead press

sorenss is not an indicator of a good workout. It means nothing.

trust me, your triceps are being overworked with all that pressing.

Vieope · 04-12-2006, 10:55 AM

Why the body produces lactic acid?

mike456 · 04-12-2006, 10:56 AM

"You see a curl as a bicep movement. I see it as elbow flexion. You see the leg curl as a hamstring movement. I see it as knee flexion. You see the situp as an ab movement. I see it as hip/spinal flexion. On and on..."

Cowpimp why do you think that way we know that curls do other muscles but the muscle it targets are the biceps
The same for benchpress it also works triceps, and shoulders, but the chest is what is being worked the most

**P-funk** · 04-12-2006, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vieope

Why the body produces lactic acid?

it is a byprodcut of anerobic metablism. It is produced because there is not enough oxygen present in the blood to convert energy quick enough for the task at hand. that is why (in short).

**P-funk** · 04-12-2006, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike456

Cowpimp why do you think that way we know that curls do other muscles but the muscle it targets are the biceps
The same for benchpress it also works triceps, and shoulders, but the chest is what is being worked the most

that is complete bullshit. you don't know that for sure. you could be a shoulder bencher or a tricep bencher....it is horizontal abduction (or horizontal flexion depending on which anatomy book you want to go by). it works many things.

Vieope · 04-12-2006, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

it is a byprodcut of anerobic metablism. It is produced because there is not enough oxygen present in the blood to convert energy quick enough for the task at hand. that is why (in short).

Why everything with you must be in short, tiny, small?

Jesus!

Bakerboy · 04-12-2006, 11:19 AM

"...that is complete bullshit. you don't know that for sure. you could be a shoulder bencher or a tricep bencher...."

P-funk this is a very interesting point. It is also why some people prefer some exercises over others: depends on your specific structure, how you lift (technique), etc.. That is why lifting is both a science and an art.

It's always about the details...

**P-funk** · 04-12-2006, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vieope

Why everything with you must be in short, tiny, small?

Jesus!

because I am short.....sorry.

**P-funk** · 04-12-2006, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bakerboy

"...that is complete bullshit. you don't know that for sure. you could be a shoulder bencher or a tricep bencher...."

P-funk this is a very interesting point. It is also why some people prefer some exercises over others: depends on your specific structure, how you lift (technique), etc.. That is why lifting is both a science and an art.

It's always about the details...

It is also why people who overdo it on the bench press complain about their shoulder hurting....

....Have you ever heard someone overdo it on the bench press and complain about pec pain? Nope! It is always..."god, my shoulder is killing me."

mike456 · 04-12-2006, 12:17 PM

go to this website: http://www.exrx.net/Lists/Directory.html , click on the muscle you want an exercise for and choose one, the exercise will target the muscle you choose but of course it also works other muscles, it tells you wich other muscles the exercise works

**P-funk** · 04-12-2006, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike456

go to this website: http://www.exrx.net/Lists/Directory.html , click on the muscle you want an exercise for and choose one, the exercise will target the muscle you choose but of course it also works other muscles, it tells you wich other muscles the exercise works

ah...because the website says so......that is pretty archaic.

it is like the football coach that tests his players in the 2 mile run when that has nothing to do with playing football. When asked about it he says "well, that is the way we always did it."

give me a break.

**P-funk** · 04-12-2006, 12:22 PM

and still answer the question why people who overdo their bench press complain about their shoulder bothering them....can you explain that to me?

mike456 · 04-12-2006, 12:25 PM

Squats and Lunges are targeted for the quads but also hit alot of other lower body muscles, your hitting the quads the most therefore it is the main muscle worked, why doesnt everybody else think like that, whats wrong with that?
I dont know why mostly everyone on this forum hates bodypart training,

mike456 · 04-12-2006, 12:32 PM

WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO PROVE BY THAT QUESTION
no one ever said that to me, I bench press alot and my shoulder never gets fucked up, they probably stretch there chest before working out and don't even know how to stretch there anterior deltoid
also i didnt say the benchpress doesnt work the shoulder, the chest is a bigger and stronger muscle thats why the shoulder would probably get injured and the chest would not
answer this: yesterday i only did bench press, my chest is sore as hell, but i dont feel anything in my shoulder .. can you explain that to me?

**P-funk** · 04-12-2006, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike456

Squats and Lunges are targeted for the quads but also hit alot of other lower body muscles, your hitting the quads the most therefore it is the main muscle worked, why doesnt everybody else think like that, whats wrong with that?
I dont know why mostly everyone on this forum hates bodypart training,

quad dominant exercises focus on the quads but hit the hammies also.

ham/hip dominant exercises focus on the glutes/hammies (hip extensors) but hit the quads also (depending on the exercise...ie...step ups, deadlifts from the floor to a certain extent depending on how you pull, etc...).

those are how we catergorize those exercises. Quad or hip dominant.

in the upper body it is movement planes.....vertical and horizontal.....bench press is a horizontal movement. It hits the chest, shoulders, triceps to the greatest extent.....the reason we don't like Body part training is because you are NEVER ISOLATING ONE MUSCLE GROUP. that is not how the body works. As a way to balance out our joints in a hopes to preven injury we group things in these movement planes so that we can manage volume at the joint more effeciently.

It isn't like WE made this shit up here at this forum. this is how a lot of people are training now, save for those that are still rocking D-bol or stuck in the same old.....the times move on...things evolve and we try and find more effecient ways of getting things done.

I have given the reason...you have provided no good reasons for body part training. Your arguments lack content.

On a side note, I could see using body part training as a mesocycle for increasing volume before backing off and increasing the intensity, see-sawing between structural training/increases (muscluar hypertrophy) and functional training/increases (intra/inter muscular coordination, strength and power).

Please, try and keep on open mind.

**P-funk** · 04-12-2006, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike456

WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO PROVE BY THAT QUESTION
no one ever said that to me, I bench press alot and my shoulder never gets fucked up, they probably stretch there chest before working out and don't even know how to stretch there anterior deltoid
also i didnt say the benchpress doesnt work the shoulder, the chest is a bigger and stronger muscle thats why the shoulder would probably get injured and the chest would not
answer this: yesterday i only did bench press, my chest is sore as hell, but i dont feel anything in my shoulder .. can you explain that to me?

great! You are lucky. Tell that to foremanrules or anyone else that has had shoulder impingment. I am sure you chest is sore. Who's chest doesn't get sore when they are pressing in a horizontal manner....that is the way the pectoralis fibers run/work.....DUH....

ReproMan · 04-12-2006, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

I am sure you chest is sore. Who's chest doesn't get sore when they are pressing in a horizontal manner....that is the way the pectoralis fibers run/work.....DUH....

Apparently alot of people on this forum don't get sore. You said yourself soreness means nothing... You are starting to confuse me P-funk.....

mike456 · 04-12-2006, 01:03 PM

im saying how come my shoulder or tricep isnt sore, im not talking about injured..
you are the one that needs to keep an open mind
when i do triceps on a day by themselves or just not with chest or anterior delt, they get worked not fatigued and i feel the soreness the next day (that is a good thing)
when i do a push, pull, legs like you say to do, on push days i do chest, shoulders, triceps
for example for chest exercises i do bench presses(regular), then i do shoulder presses, then i do triceps extensions, the triceps and anterior deltoid were already fatigued from the previous exercies, they are tired not worked, they are not sore the next day only the chest is because it was not pre-exhausted
fatigued and worked are two different things, just because a muscle is tired it does not mean there will be increased strength or hypertrophy or as much of hypertrophy or strength as being worked

its like doing a set of 20 reps on a light weight for the triceps and shoulders, they will become tired but not worked
bench press does not hit the shoulders and tris as hard as doing shoulder presses for the delts, and tricep extensions for the triceps, therefore they are not being worked enough for hypertrophy
bodypart training is better
this would be a great routine:
Monday - Chest/Biceps
Tuesday - off
Wednesday - Shoulders/Legs
Thursday - off
Friday - Back/Triceps
Saturday - off
Sunday - off

And how many times do i have to say this, I know exercises do not isolate only one muscle but one muscle is worked alot more than the other ones that are worked!!
such as lunges- quads are worked the most therefore it is a quad exercise!

04-11-2006, 07:11 PM	#1
Steed77 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Bay Area Posts: 67	Body Part Training Okay...many people here do not like body part training. I DO NOT disagree with that, but my question is this: Wouldn't leg curls, extensions, calf raises, be body part training? So, how would you train your legs without "Body Part Training"? Squats? Lunges? Also...Leg extensions DO build muscle mass, but is it practicle? We don't really use our legs that way, so why do it-other than to try and get more strength/muscle? Same thing with leg curls...??? I'm not trying to be a smart ass...I am just curious what everyone else thinks? Thanks!

04-11-2006, 07:55 PM	#3
MWpro Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 876	Someone claiming that they do not use bodypart training is not entirely true. For instance, a push day would be the same as working your chest, shoulders, and triceps. But the difference lies in using compound movements to accomplish hitting each muscle, and not trying to completely isolate a particular muscle. For example, instead of doing tricep pushdowns, do dips or CG bench press. For shoulders, instead of doing front raises, do overhead presses. That way when you get down to the smaller muscle groups such as triceps, you will only need a few sets if that to stimulate them. For quads, instead of leg extensions do squats and leg press.
MWpro Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 876

04-12-2006, 10:51 AM	#7
mike456 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,284	Im starting bodypart training because: When i do push pull legs, on push day i do chest than shoulders than triceps, the next day only my chest is sore, but when i do triceps on a day by itself they are sore the next day, I think when im doing a push the triceps are being fatigued and not overworked, its like doing a light weight set of 20 theyll get tired but they are not being overworked IMO well im gonna start doing this max-ot workout(body part training): Monday Legs Tuesday Arms(biceps, triceps, forearms), Abs Wednesday Shoulders, Traps Thursday Back Friday Chest I will still be doing compund movements, but compounds that target the muscle I am traing that day example: Chest I will do Flat Bench Press, Shoulders I will do overhead press
mike456 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,284

04-12-2006, 10:55 AM	#9
Vieope Monochromatic Bunny Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: drinking coffee.. Posts: 14,857 Photos: 10	Why the body produces lactic acid?
	FURtherness

04-12-2006, 10:56 AM	#10
mike456 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,284	"You see a curl as a bicep movement. I see it as elbow flexion. You see the leg curl as a hamstring movement. I see it as knee flexion. You see the situp as an ab movement. I see it as hip/spinal flexion. On and on..." Cowpimp why do you think that way we know that curls do other muscles but the muscle it targets are the biceps The same for benchpress it also works triceps, and shoulders, but the chest is what is being worked the most
mike456 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,284

04-12-2006, 11:19 AM	#14
Bakerboy cat burglar Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: the city of champions Posts: 4,146 Photos: 3	"...that is complete bullshit. you don't know that for sure. you could be a shoulder bencher or a tricep bencher...." P-funk this is a very interesting point. It is also why some people prefer some exercises over others: depends on your specific structure, how you lift (technique), etc.. That is why lifting is both a science and an art. It's always about the details...

04-12-2006, 12:17 PM	#17
mike456 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,284	go to this website: http://www.exrx.net/Lists/Directory.html , click on the muscle you want an exercise for and choose one, the exercise will target the muscle you choose but of course it also works other muscles, it tells you wich other muscles the exercise works
mike456 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,284

04-12-2006, 12:22 PM	#19
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,574	and still answer the question why people who overdo their bench press complain about their shoulder bothering them....can you explain that to me?
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! Ivonne's Blog on Health and Wellness! Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

04-12-2006, 12:25 PM	#20
mike456 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,284	Squats and Lunges are targeted for the quads but also hit alot of other lower body muscles, your hitting the quads the most therefore it is the main muscle worked, why doesnt everybody else think like that, whats wrong with that? I dont know why mostly everyone on this forum hates bodypart training,
mike456 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,284

04-12-2006, 12:32 PM	#21
mike456 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,284	WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO PROVE BY THAT QUESTION no one ever said that to me, I bench press alot and my shoulder never gets fucked up, they probably stretch there chest before working out and don't even know how to stretch there anterior deltoid also i didnt say the benchpress doesnt work the shoulder, the chest is a bigger and stronger muscle thats why the shoulder would probably get injured and the chest would not answer this: yesterday i only did bench press, my chest is sore as hell, but i dont feel anything in my shoulder .. can you explain that to me?
mike456 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,284

04-12-2006, 01:03 PM	#25
mike456 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,284	im saying how come my shoulder or tricep isnt sore, im not talking about injured.. you are the one that needs to keep an open mind when i do triceps on a day by themselves or just not with chest or anterior delt, they get worked not fatigued and i feel the soreness the next day (that is a good thing) when i do a push, pull, legs like you say to do, on push days i do chest, shoulders, triceps for example for chest exercises i do bench presses(regular), then i do shoulder presses, then i do triceps extensions, the triceps and anterior deltoid were already fatigued from the previous exercies, they are tired not worked, they are not sore the next day only the chest is because it was not pre-exhausted fatigued and worked are two different things, just because a muscle is tired it does not mean there will be increased strength or hypertrophy or as much of hypertrophy or strength as being worked its like doing a set of 20 reps on a light weight for the triceps and shoulders, they will become tired but not worked bench press does not hit the shoulders and tris as hard as doing shoulder presses for the delts, and tricep extensions for the triceps, therefore they are not being worked enough for hypertrophy bodypart training is better this would be a great routine: Monday - Chest/Biceps Tuesday - off Wednesday - Shoulders/Legs Thursday - off Friday - Back/Triceps Saturday - off Sunday - off And how many times do i have to say this, I know exercises do not isolate only one muscle but one muscle is worked alot more than the other ones that are worked!! such as lunges- quads are worked the most therefore it is a quad exercise!
mike456 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,284