How important is to work out biceps and triceps?

ssaurya@hammer. · 04-21-2006, 09:38 AM

Hi All,
Simple question: How important is to work out biceps and triceps?
If yes, how many exercise and how many sets of each?
If no, as I have seen many people advocating for compound exercises to get the same effect instead of doing isloation exercises for biceps and triceps. So what are the exercises recommended in this category?
How effective is one strategy (say isolation) over the other strategy say compound)?
What is the right combination or not combinations required for bigger biceps and triceps?
My aplogies- the more I read the more I am confused?
Thanks
S

TJ Cline · 04-21-2006, 09:39 AM

Isolation is fine but it should only be a small part of your workout.

**CowPimp** · 04-21-2006, 10:14 AM

It depends on your goals. ..

If you are lifting for strength, then isolation work is largely a waste of time. Sometimes it can be beneficial in that context, such as the case of a strongman competitor who needs to strengthen the musculotendinous junction of their bicep so that it doesn't tear when they're lifting big ass stones. However, your average weekend warrior who is interested in increasing muscular strength should, for the most part, not be concerned with isolation arm work.

If you are lifting for general health, then isolation work is definitely a waste of time. You are going to get much better results by performing exercises that not only tax the muscular, skeletal, and nervous systems to a larger degree, but by performing exercises that involve a greater demand from your cardiovascular system. Go ahead and do a set of 20 repetition squats and tell me you aren't breathing hard.

If you are a bodybuilder, whether it be competitively or recreationally, then isolation arm work can be beneficial. Nonetheless, as Foreman already said, it should only comprise a small portion of your routine. Most of the stimulus, and often even all of the stimulus, necessary for growth will come from the big compound movements. Some supplementation with isolation work can certainly be beneficial, but you don't need to devote an entire day to arm training, and you shouldn't have more variations of bicep curls than you do variations of squats in your program.

Another thing to keep in mind is that professional bodybuilders are most all jacked up on special sauce. Their ability to recover is far greater than your will ever be because of this. They can train their arms, and the rest of their bodies too, with a lot more volume than you can and see great results.

ablc · 04-21-2006, 10:41 AM

I look at it as frosting and cake. Isolation work is the frosting, compound moves are the cake...the occasional spoonful of frosting is fine, but it lacks form and substance, whereas cake by itself is fine. Best use for frosting is on a good cake...heavy frosting on a poorly-made cake just tears the cake apart.

MyK · 04-21-2006, 10:49 AM

MMMmmmmmm....cake!

**CowPimp** · 04-21-2006, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ablc

I look at it as frosting and cake. Isolation work is the frosting, compound moves are the cake...the occasional spoonful of frosting is fine, but it lacks form and substance, whereas cake by itself is fine. Best use for frosting is on a good cake...heavy frosting on a poorly-made cake just tears the cake apart.

Yeah, and there are a lot of dumbshit kids who lick the frosting off the cake.

ablc · 04-21-2006, 12:20 PM

See? Best analogy ever.
I eat the cake in public, but save the frosting at home because I make a mess of it

mrmark · 04-21-2006, 12:41 PM

A lot of the time, the guys who come in who only do chest, also only train biceps. They spend ~30 min on biceps and do so about 4 times a week. It's silly but that's their priority.

ablc · 04-21-2006, 12:46 PM

There's a guy at my gym who only does triceps. He's there almost every time I'm there, so probably lots of other times, too, as my schedule is a bit random. I've never seen him do anything besides triceps...closest he's come is a CG BP, at least it was compound.

**Gazhole** · 04-21-2006, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ablc

I look at it as frosting and cake. Isolation work is the frosting, compound moves are the cake...the occasional spoonful of frosting is fine, but it lacks form and substance, whereas cake by itself is fine. Best use for frosting is on a good cake...heavy frosting on a poorly-made cake just tears the cake apart.

Now im just damned hungry for cake!

I havent had cake for ages.

I WAS DOING SO WELL! :P

***

But yes, try and mix compound and isolation together, but there should definitely be more of the former.

Ive seen better gains the last few weeks doing chin ups than i did when i used to do just curls. Though curls (especially the barbell curl) did work for me, chins seem to be working just as well, and im not overtraining my biceps anymore.

For triceps i find the tricep-orientated version of push-ups work well, when combined with extensions of some kind. I've still gotta look for the correct form on skullcrushers before i try them though.

ablc · 04-21-2006, 01:48 PM

I'm such a bad influence!

**Gazhole** · 04-21-2006, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ablc

I'm such a bad influence!

CAKE is a bad influence. You are just it's minion.

Triple Threat · 04-21-2006, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ablc

I look at it as frosting and cake. Isolation work is the frosting, compound moves are the cake.

There's a couple of guys at the gym where I go who have mounds and mounds of frosting whenever I see them there.

ablc · 04-21-2006, 01:57 PM

And they look very silly like that, don't they?

Triple Threat · 04-21-2006, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ablc

And they look very silly like that, don't they?

Chicken legs, flat butt, drooping shoulders, and tiny little golf balls protruding on their upper arms.

ssaurya@hammer. · 04-24-2006, 07:48 AM

Thanks guys for your opinion. So if I divide my workout into Chest, back, shoulder and legs, what will be the right workout program for me, considering two muscles a day. Currently I am doing, chest and shoulders on one day and back and legs on another day. (two to three days/week). I would like that my biceps and triceps get covered in these two days.
S

**CowPimp** · 04-24-2006, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssaurya@hammer.

Thanks guys for your opinion. So if I divide my workout into Chest, back, shoulder and legs, what will be the right workout program for me, considering two muscles a day. Currently I am doing, chest and shoulders on one day and back and legs on another day. (two to three days/week). I would like that my biceps and triceps get covered in these two days.
S

I'm a big fan of push-pull-legs. If you perform a split routine, then I don't think pairing back and legs together is a good idea. These are the two largest masses of muscle on your body. It seems to me like you're unecessarily stressing your body's ability to recover by pairing them together.

scbz01602 · 04-24-2006, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

I'm a big fan of push-pull-legs. If you perform a split routine, then I don't think pairing back and legs together is a good idea. These are the two largest masses of muscle on your body. It seems to me like you're unecessarily stressing your body's ability to recover by pairing them together.

I agree- I'm also currently using the push/pull/legs split. If I do work the arms at all, I do low volume activity. Triceps are heavily recruited on the press movements, and biceps and forearms are heavily recruited on pulls.

I don't think you should eliminate bicep and tricep movement out of the routine, as it only helps to implement a few sets of each at the end of each workout, but the majority of work of the arms should be on the compound movements.

I can see where you are coming from with combining back and legs, but as CowPimp stated, that is so much work to cover in one day. It would be best to separate the two, even though most of the compound back/leg movements have similiar muscle recuitment. Separate back and legs with several days inbetween, if you can do so.

Brutus_G · 04-24-2006, 10:37 AM

The only case i make for isolation is that on bench presses any kind IE close grip or wide my chest will take 75% of the load so skull crushers are a must. Hey also it's fun at the end of a real workout to work the biceps. I also feel squats and dead lifts don't hit the gastrocnemius like bench and pull ups hit the biceps and triceps.

kenwood · 04-24-2006, 10:55 AM

cake is sick to me..theirs 2 things that i realy dont like....
1.cake

2.candy

i just never liked any of it ....i never have any cavities either

kenwood · 04-24-2006, 10:57 AM

i say training should be 90% compound and 10% isolation...the isolation is just the glazing on the donut

TJ Cline · 04-24-2006, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenwood

i say training should be 90% compound and 10% isolation...the isolation is just the glazing on the donut

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/sh...88&postcount=1 (The "my advice" thread)
#31

Brutus_G · 04-24-2006, 11:55 AM

I must admit i've always hated frosting.

kenwood · 04-24-2006, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/sh...88&postcount=1 (The "my advice" thread)
#31

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/sh...88&postcount=1 (The "my advice" thread)

#32

The13ig13adWolf · 04-24-2006, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

Isolation is fine but it should only be a small part of your workout.

i agree.

TheCurse · 04-24-2006, 01:51 PM

on push day ill spend about 30-40 minutes doing chest exercises and 20-30 doing tricep exercises and about 10 doing lateral delt exercises. on back day i spend about 50 minutes doing back exercises, 10 minutes doing rear delt isolation exercises, and about 15 minutes doing bicep exercises. Ive been doing this for years, except i never used to do any direct bicep work at all until pretty recently.

ssaurya@hammer. · 05-16-2006, 09:47 AM

Hi all,
Those who follow Push/pull/legs regime, where do you fit abdominals exercises?
S

33sun33 · 05-16-2006, 11:01 AM

04-21-2006, 09:38 AM	#1
ssaurya@hammer. Registered User Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 20	How important is to work out biceps and triceps? BODYBUILDING SUPPLEMENTS High Quality Supplements For Bodybuilders and Athletes. www.ironmaglabs.com Hi All, Simple question: How important is to work out biceps and triceps? If yes, how many exercise and how many sets of each? If no, as I have seen many people advocating for compound exercises to get the same effect instead of doing isloation exercises for biceps and triceps. So what are the exercises recommended in this category? How effective is one strategy (say isolation) over the other strategy say compound)? What is the right combination or not combinations required for bigger biceps and triceps? My aplogies- the more I read the more I am confused? Thanks S

04-21-2006, 09:39 AM	#2
TJ Cline Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,544	Isolation is fine but it should only be a small part of your workout.
TJ Cline Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,544

04-21-2006, 12:41 PM	#8
mrmark Londoner Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: London Posts: 999 Photos: 1	A lot of the time, the guys who come in who only do chest, also only train biceps. They spend ~30 min on biceps and do so about 4 times a week. It's silly but that's their priority.
	I love it when a plan comes together.

04-24-2006, 10:37 AM	#19
Brutus_G Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 4,913 Photos: 24	The only case i make for isolation is that on bench presses any kind IE close grip or wide my chest will take 75% of the load so skull crushers are a must. Hey also it's fun at the end of a real workout to work the biceps. I also feel squats and dead lifts don't hit the gastrocnemius like bench and pull ups hit the biceps and triceps.
	"People do it everyday, they talk to themselves... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."-Tyler Durden

04-24-2006, 11:55 AM	#23
Brutus_G Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 4,913 Photos: 24	I must admit i've always hated frosting.
	"People do it everyday, they talk to themselves... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."-Tyler Durden

04-21-2006, 10:14 AM	#3
CowPimp Fueled by Testosterone Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 15,400	It depends on your goals. .. If you are lifting for strength, then isolation work is largely a waste of time. Sometimes it can be beneficial in that context, such as the case of a strongman competitor who needs to strengthen the musculotendinous junction of their bicep so that it doesn't tear when they're lifting big ass stones. However, your average weekend warrior who is interested in increasing muscular strength should, for the most part, not be concerned with isolation arm work. If you are lifting for general health, then isolation work is definitely a waste of time. You are going to get much better results by performing exercises that not only tax the muscular, skeletal, and nervous systems to a larger degree, but by performing exercises that involve a greater demand from your cardiovascular system. Go ahead and do a set of 20 repetition squats and tell me you aren't breathing hard. If you are a bodybuilder, whether it be competitively or recreationally, then isolation arm work can be beneficial. Nonetheless, as Foreman already said, it should only comprise a small portion of your routine. Most of the stimulus, and often even all of the stimulus, necessary for growth will come from the big compound movements. Some supplementation with isolation work can certainly be beneficial, but you don't need to devote an entire day to arm training, and you shouldn't have more variations of bicep curls than you do variations of squats in your program. Another thing to keep in mind is that professional bodybuilders are most all jacked up on special sauce. Their ability to recover is far greater than your will ever be because of this. They can train their arms, and the rest of their bodies too, with a lot more volume than you can and see great results.
	The only time it's bad to feel the burn is when you're peeing... CowPimp Picks Up Heavy Shit MySpace YouTube Videos

04-21-2006, 10:41 AM	#4
ablc Girly Girl Lifter Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 83	I look at it as frosting and cake. Isolation work is the frosting, compound moves are the cake...the occasional spoonful of frosting is fine, but it lacks form and substance, whereas cake by itself is fine. Best use for frosting is on a good cake...heavy frosting on a poorly-made cake just tears the cake apart.

04-21-2006, 10:49 AM	#5
MyK Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: consumerville! Posts: 10,201 Photos: 1	MMMmmmmmm....cake!

04-21-2006, 12:20 PM	#7
ablc Girly Girl Lifter Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 83	See? Best analogy ever. I eat the cake in public, but save the frosting at home because I make a mess of it

04-21-2006, 12:46 PM	#9
ablc Girly Girl Lifter Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 83	There's a guy at my gym who only does triceps. He's there almost every time I'm there, so probably lots of other times, too, as my schedule is a bit random. I've never seen him do anything besides triceps...closest he's come is a CG BP, at least it was compound.

04-21-2006, 01:48 PM	#11
ablc Girly Girl Lifter Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 83	I'm such a bad influence!

04-21-2006, 01:57 PM	#14
ablc Girly Girl Lifter Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 83	And they look very silly like that, don't they?

04-24-2006, 07:48 AM	#16
ssaurya@hammer. Registered User Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 20	Thanks guys for your opinion. So if I divide my workout into Chest, back, shoulder and legs, what will be the right workout program for me, considering two muscles a day. Currently I am doing, chest and shoulders on one day and back and legs on another day. (two to three days/week). I would like that my biceps and triceps get covered in these two days. S

04-24-2006, 10:55 AM	#20
kenwood Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 4,878 Photos: 1	cake is sick to me..theirs 2 things that i realy dont like.... 1.cake 2.candy i just never liked any of it ....i never have any cavities either

04-24-2006, 10:57 AM	#21
kenwood Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 4,878 Photos: 1	i say training should be 90% compound and 10% isolation...the isolation is just the glazing on the donut

04-24-2006, 01:51 PM	#26
TheCurse Barbell Ninja Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Dago Posts: 762 Photos: 5	on push day ill spend about 30-40 minutes doing chest exercises and 20-30 doing tricep exercises and about 10 doing lateral delt exercises. on back day i spend about 50 minutes doing back exercises, 10 minutes doing rear delt isolation exercises, and about 15 minutes doing bicep exercises. Ive been doing this for years, except i never used to do any direct bicep work at all until pretty recently.
	Thread killer.

05-16-2006, 09:47 AM	#27
ssaurya@hammer. Registered User Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 20	Hi all, Those who follow Push/pull/legs regime, where do you fit abdominals exercises? S

05-16-2006, 11:01 AM	#28
33sun33 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Albany, New York Posts: 159