Thread: do people overrate the basics too much?

yes lol now its 5am and i'm prolly gonna slepp all day ....but anyways yes i get where u commin from...compund is the donut and the isolation is the glazing...compund is the cake and the isolation is the frosting ...compund is nachos and the isolation is the dip but yeah 70% compound and 30% isolation

Originally Posted by swordfish

yes im talking about the squat, bench and deadlift. i think they are valuable exercises but people say that these are the ones that make you big. i disagree with this slightly. you need to do these but you need to incorporate lots of isolation movements to really get big. lunges, dumbell press, skull crushers, barbell rows, pullups, incline dumbell press, raises, overhead extensions, hammer curls and many many other exercises.

i keep hearing people say let the big exercises take care of you arms and do little to no direct movements. i disagree 100% your major growth seems to come from supplementing the isolation lifts in there along with doing the big ones.

anyone know where im coming from?

Are you implying these are isolation exercises? Or are you just saying they are good for growth?

Well I think squat, deadlift, and bench press are great for strength and growth. However, I def. don't think that one should only do these movements.

lunges are basically the same thing as a squat, but 1 leg at a time IMO..
if u could choose to only have 1 in your routine- any variation of pull-ups or pull-downs or any variation of a squat- including lunges, 1 leg squats, all squats, etc.- not including leg press, wich would u choose, i would do pullups- fuck the squats and do leg press...

what im trying to say is pull-ups should also be one of the famous basics(squats, deadlifts, and bench press)

if you are a beginer- then just let the main lifts get you to where you need to go and then get fancy later on.

if you are a seasoned vet, looking for hypertrophy- the big/main lifts are going to be your bread and butter. Do them with intensity and don't leave them out of your routine. Once you have done them, you should add in some isolation/gay shit/beach shit to finish off the workout. You can increase the reps a little with the beach shit to increase your amount of metabolic activity/mechanical work.

Originally Posted by P-funk

if you are a beginer- then just let the main lifts get you to where you need to go and then get fancy later on.

if you are a seasoned vet, looking for hypertrophy- the big/main lifts are going to be your bread and butter. Do them with intensity and don't leave them out of your routine. Once you have done them, you should add in some isolation/gay shit/beach shit to finish off the workout. You can increase the reps a little with the beach shit to increase your amount of metabolic activity/mechanical work.

Originally Posted by fufu

*busted*

just trying to sneak it in.

So, what's the difference between the "gay shit" and the "beach shit"

Originally Posted by shiznit2169

So, what's the difference between the "gay shit" and the "beach shit"

same thing. just a differnet name. they are interchangeable. Kind of Like Kenwood and Kefe....Both are fucking morons so we can use either name.

Originally Posted by P-funk

same thing. just a differnet name. they are interchangeable. Kind of Like Kenwood and Kefe....Both are fucking morons so we can use either name.

Originally Posted by swordfish

i keep hearing people say let the big exercises take care of you arms and do little to no direct movements. i disagree 100% your major growth seems to come from supplementing the isolation lifts in there along with doing the big ones.

anyone know where im coming from?

So you at 18 years of age, are discounting information from people who have been there and done that. You have a picture of Tom Platz's legs in your avatar, but you dont think the squat is good enough for the bulk of your leg work despite what built those legs?

Pick a direction and stick to it, until you find that it works or it doesn't.

Doing 20 sets of bent over concentration curls isn't going to give you massive biceps.

do people overrate the basics too much?



I almost never see people doing the basics so to answer your question, NO!

Exactly, so about 2% of the people on the boards - who actually have some numbers to brag about, are busy overrating what has taken them to where they are?

Maybe its not overrated when it produces results to back up those claims.

I'm with whoever said Pull-ups should be added to the Big 3
They are definantly awesome.
Either pull-ups or Bent over barbell rows should be added.
Both are awesome compound movements.

i never discounted them im just asking why people say do squats to help make your upper body bigger, do the big movements and your arms will grow, the isolation lifts are very important i think and the big lifts will only take you so far imo. i think they are great dont get me wrong but there are so many other lifts that you have to add to them in order to really get the size you want( discounting diet here and just focusing on lifting)

Originally Posted by swordfish

i never discounted them im just asking why people say do squats to help make your upper body bigger, do the big movements and your arms will grow, the isolation lifts are very important i think and the big lifts will only take you so far imo. i think they are great dont get me wrong but there are so many other lifts that you have to add to them in order to really get the size you want( discounting diet here and just focusing on lifting)

Well, from personal experience, I believe this to be true now.
A year ago, I would have agreed with you, however:
Now that I do a thorough, tough back workout, my biceps are always completely burned out at the end. So I don't do bicep isolation anymore.
As for triceps...Mine are pretty well developed so I still do a couple sets on my push day, after chest and shoulders, but thats it.

Originally Posted by swordfish

i never discounted them im just asking why people say do squats to help make your upper body bigger, do the big movements and your arms will grow, the isolation lifts are very important i think and the big lifts will only take you so far imo. i think they are great dont get me wrong but there are so many other lifts that you have to add to them in order to really get the size you want( discounting diet here and just focusing on lifting)

Doing those big movements causes your body to release more GH and everything good as far as muscle building fat burning hormones go than doing smaller movements. They work so many muscles at once. Squats especially are king.

I'm not in the camp that says you need no isolation movements. It depends really. If you want the biggest biceps/triceps etc. possible I think you do need to do some isolation moves for them. That is not to say they won't grow from doing heavy back/chest work cause they will. Will they reach their best size that way? I don't think so. If you concentrate too much on isolation moves though and don't do the big ones, they won't get there either. The only problem may be overtraining but that's pretty objective and no one can clearly define what is overtraining for everybody.

Whether you're young or old I would definitely spend the most time/energy on the big compound movements, but beginners especially need to get those moves down before they go doing 10 sets of bicep isolation moves.

Originally Posted by myCATpowerlifts

Well, from personal experience, I believe this to be true now.
A year ago, I would have agreed with you, however:
Now that I do a thorough, tough back isolation (3 sets of curls), my biceps are always completely burned out at the end. So I don't do bicep isolation anymore.
As for triceps...Mine are pretty well developed so I still do a couple sets on my push day, after chest and shoulders, but thats it.

that is my same exact situation, although i do have bicep work in my routine, i try to do them but i just cant they get so tired from the bigger movements, i think im just going to drop them, although my triceps on push day dont get hit as much as my biceps do on pull day, so i still have enough energy with them so i do a couple of sets of isolation movements

I think everyone is different, and not everyone has to do three exercises to see huge results.
For instance, P-funk said he hasn't bench pressed in almost a year. I don’t know about you, but I sure as hell wouldn't say P-funk doesn't know what he is doing judging from his pictures.
I don't do deadlifts, and I have seen fantastic gains. My back simply isn't in the shape to risk another injury, so I will not do deadlifts again ever.
I think a person should do at least two of the "big three" lifts, but I wouldn’t say someone has to do all three.
That’s just my 2 cents worth.

Jesus I think the only two iso's I do are bicep curls and calves.

Chest. all benches
delts. Overhead presses
Back width. pullups or pulldowns
Back thickness. Deads or Bent rows
Quads: squats, hacks or leg presses
Tri's. Dips or Cg Bench
Hams. SLDL

I wouldnt say the basics are overrated or underated, I'd say for the most part they are completely ignored. The real question is do people ovverate the stupid shit too much?

There is nothing basic about the "basics".

You can spend half your life perfecting a basic squat and deadlift.

Some of what you considered "isolation" movements are far from that. Bent rows and pullups certainly deserve to be in the basics category in my opinion. Pushing, pulling, squatting, lunging, stepping, and deadlifting/pulling are the keys to success in my opinion.

This isn't to say that isolation work has no place. I've never said that. People just tend to overdo it. When I see someone's entire workout consisting of only 3 sets of bench pressing and the rest isolation shit it makes me want to smack them across the face. The isolation work should intelligently supplement the basics, not the other way around.

Originally Posted by Tough Old Man

Jesus I think the only two iso's I do are bicep curls and calves.

Chest. all benches
delts. Overhead presses
Back width. pullups or pulldowns
Back thickness. Deads or Bent rows
Quads: squats, hacks or leg presses
Tri's. Dips or Cg Bench
Hams. SLDL

Sometimes I just want to when I read what these little know it all shits write!

The only isolation i use are skull crusher/nosebleeds and calf raises. I have a dominating chest that takes over on cg bench and i think calfs are a muscle that isn't hit hard enough by squats or delfts. Do whatever power lifters or Olympic lifters are doing and you will get big. But please oh please just eat healthy massive amounts of food.

I think people overrate the basics. We all need to concentrate on those machines you see on late-night infomercials, and the miracle diet pills. Forget Squats, Bench, and Deadlifts; chuck norris uses the power glider!

I quit training biceps for 6 month just to see what would happen and lost 1 inch in my arms. And yes I was still doing heavy rows n chins and my weight remained unchanged. So for me the proof is in the pudding.

I consider barbell curls a basic movement for the biceps. If you want big triceps, lying tricep extensions are equivalent to what the squats is for the quads. I am with Lee Priest and Manfred Hoeberl on the idea that rows and presses are not enough for the biggest guns possible!!!

I could not have grown 22 inch guns by using ONLY Back, Chest, and Shoulder work. I tried and failed miserably.

It's weird cause at my school ( I use the gym their ) I hardly ever see guys doing anything, but bench and squat ( almost no deads ) - why? Their dumb 14 year old kids who yell when their benching 135. But anyhow, most of the older smarter guys spend a lot of time on auxiliaries.