realistic - but ambitious

nikegurl · 04-26-2002, 05:24 PM

i'll admit it. when i first started working out in college i trained legs HARD. i found my old training logs and damnnnnn.

anyway - something happened and i started slacking big time. i got away with it for a long time too. now that i'm back at it training really hard and being insanely strict with my food my upper body is just about back to where it was when i was at my best shape. (chest just needs another month or so....)

my legs are really lagging. it's my own fault. i've been a wussy girl and i regret it. that being said - i've been hitting them hard. last week i trained them thursday and they got sore late in the day friday and the soreness stuck around 'til wednesday.

trained them last night. won't look all that impressive but i know i went to absolute failure.

4 sets leg press (after 1 warm up set)
4 sets extensions
4 sets stiff legged deadlifts
4 sets seated leg curls

squats have been hurting my lower back so i'm going to take the hint and lay off them for a bit.

i planned to alternate leg press with hacks. may try that sled thing....not so sure. it's sort of a cross between the hack machine and a leg press. you lay down and there's pads over your shoulders like the hack (but you're laying down) and you press like the leg press.

is that good to alternate the hacks/presses or should i do both every time?

i could use some guidance on how many exercises and sets to do. hamstrings are a weaker point then quads - but not that big a difference between the two. i'm training legs once a week.

i was wondering too what is a realistic time frame to really bring them up? obviously a year can make a big difference but that's so long. should i be able to see real change (muscle gains) in 3 months? is that unrealistic?

**gopro** · 04-26-2002, 06:17 PM

Personally, I would like to see more variation in your program. If you really want to bring your legs up, try my 3 week leg cycle. Its tough, it hurts, but it works...and fast!

week 1...power...

-leg press...3 x 8-10
-hack squat...3 x 8-10
-leg extension...2-3 x 8-10
-lying leg curl...3 x 6-8
-stiff deadlift...3 x 6-8

week 2...rep range...

-hack squat...3 x 10-12
-leg press...3 x 12-15
-single leg extension...2 x 15-20
-seated leg curl...2 x 8-10
-lying leg curl...2 x 10-12
-stiff deadlift...2 x 12-15

week 3...shock...

-leg extension/leg press superset...2 x 8-10 each
-leg extension/hack squat superset...2 x 8-10 each
-lunge...1 x max
-lying leg curl/stiff deadlift superset...2 x 8-10 each
-seated leg curl dropset...1 x 8-10, drop, 8-10

I have seen this work wonders on many of my clients. Try it if you dare! Best of luck!

nikegurl · 04-26-2002, 06:26 PM

yep - i used to do lots of supersets and my legs were great. they were so hard. so that tells me it's the way to go!

thanks for taking the time to post this for me.
i'm going to do it! just did legs last night so won't be 'til next thursday.

can you tell me more on week 3. like the lunges. with weight? (like what weight do you chose to do "max" reps?)

and for the dropset on leg curls. you chose a weight you can do 8-10 reps with. do that. then move the pin to a lighter weight and immediately do 8-10 more no rest. yes? (so it's one set with one drop and total of 16-20 reps?)

after week 3 do you go back to week 1 and repeat?

thanks so much. i'm ready!

**gopro** · 04-26-2002, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by nikegurl
yep - i used to do lots of supersets and my legs were great. they were so hard. so that tells me it's the way to go!

thanks for taking the time to post this for me.
i'm going to do it! just did legs last night so won't be 'til next thursday.

can you tell me more on week 3. like the lunges. with weight? (like what weight do you chose to do "max" reps?)

and for the dropset on leg curls. you chose a weight you can do 8-10 reps with. do that. then move the pin to a lighter weight and immediately do 8-10 more no rest. yes? (so it's one set with one drop and total of 16-20 reps?)

after week 3 do you go back to week 1 and repeat?

thanks so much. i'm ready!

You will be very pleased at how your legs will react to this program. Here's the answers to your questions...

-with the lunges, hold a pair of dumbells...say 15 lbs, and go for as many as you can stand in perfect form...then the next time you do them, try to top it!

-yes, with the dropset, get 8-10 to failure, then drop the pin and get another 8-10 immediately...no rest...if you can't get 8-10, drop the pin again!

-yes, after week 3, repeat the cycle

Get to it!!!!!

nikegurl · 04-26-2002, 06:41 PM

thanks. awesome of you to take the time.

lunges (last question - next you'll be getting progress reports)
do you prefer they be done all one leg then all the other or alternate? most people seem to alternate. i think i prefer all one leg then all the other. does it matter?

elvn · 04-26-2002, 09:35 PM

i know gopro posted this for you bu i'll comment on thelunges
i find that doing one leg at a time more beneficial b/c you really feel the muscle burn as opposed to alternating legs.
just my opinion though
i may have to try this workout as well, looks awesome

**gopro** · 04-27-2002, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by nikegurl
thanks. awesome of you to take the time.

lunges (last question - next you'll be getting progress reports)
do you prefer they be done all one leg then all the other or alternate? most people seem to alternate. i think i prefer all one leg then all the other. does it matter?

Ask as many questions as you need! With the lunges, do them one leg at a time like already mentioned. After you finish one leg, take a 30 second break and do the other

nikegurl · 04-27-2002, 11:20 PM

i'm so psyched. yes, i know that sounds very 80s of me.

i've got the diet totally in order. i can see it happening. now i've got a plan for the weak point - legs. if i didn't make this change i know exactly what would happen. i'd keep getting leaner (good thing) and my upper body would be very defined - just about there now. seeing all the heads in my delts and the vein in my bicep is here to stay....

BUT i'd have these skinny little stick legs at the bottom and that's no good at all! thanks so much for taking the time to help me and giving me a good solid routine so i can get my butt in gear and fix it before the imbalance gets more obvious.

did i say i'm psyched?

**gopro** · 04-28-2002, 09:47 AM

I'm psyched for you....

ActionMatt · 04-28-2002, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gopro
Personally, I would like to see more variation in your program. If you really want to bring your legs up, try my 3 week leg cycle. Its tough, it hurts, but it works...and fast!

week 1...power...

-leg press...3 x 8-10
-hack squat...3 x 8-10
-leg extension...2-3 x 8-10
-lying leg curl...3 x 6-8
-stiff deadlift...3 x 6-8

week 2...rep range...

-hack squat...3 x 10-12
-leg press...3 x 12-15
-single leg extension...2 x 15-20
-seated leg curl...2 x 8-10
-lying leg curl...2 x 10-12
-stiff deadlift...2 x 12-15

week 3...shock...

-leg extension/leg press superset...2 x 8-10 each
-leg extension/hack squat superset...2 x 8-10 each
-lunge...1 x max
-lying leg curl/stiff deadlift superset...2 x 8-10 each
-seated leg curl dropset...1 x 8-10, drop, 8-10

I have seen this work wonders on many of my clients. Try it if you dare! Best of luck!

Is this ONLY for three weeks? If those sets are anywhere close to failure, I know *I* wouldn't want to do it for more than one week-- that's an awful lot of work.

Secondly, why do you describe sets of 8-10 as "power" work? It becomes even more confusing when the next week only involves rep ranges slightly higher.

GP, I'd really like to know your logic in designing this, because it doesn't seem to offer much above and beyond a straight loading program. I mean, if you're going to periodize, do it right.

**gopro** · 04-28-2002, 02:33 PM

Action...your presence here is useless...back to the library for you!

ActionMatt · 04-28-2002, 04:27 PM

So I can't have a civil debate without you taking it personally?

**gopro** · 04-29-2002, 05:56 AM

Action...you are not here to have a civil debate. You are here to try and discredit my methods...you know it and I know it...unfortunately, you cannot discredit anything that has been wildly successful for a great many people, as my methods have been. You seem to forget that I am not an "imitator" but an "innovator." Although I like reading books, I love writing them.

So go away and let me help out all the great people on this website.

**dg806** · 04-29-2002, 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gopro
them.

So go away and let me help out all the great people on this website.

Neil · 04-29-2002, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gopro
Personally, I would like to see more variation in your program. If you really want to bring your legs up, try my 3 week leg cycle. Its tough, it hurts, but it works...and fast!

week 1...power...

-leg press...3 x 8-10
-hack squat...3 x 8-10
-leg extension...2-3 x 8-10
-lying leg curl...3 x 6-8
-stiff deadlift...3 x 6-8

week 2...rep range...

-hack squat...3 x 10-12
-leg press...3 x 12-15
-single leg extension...2 x 15-20
-seated leg curl...2 x 8-10
-lying leg curl...2 x 10-12
-stiff deadlift...2 x 12-15

week 3...shock...

-leg extension/leg press superset...2 x 8-10 each
-leg extension/hack squat superset...2 x 8-10 each
-lunge...1 x max
-lying leg curl/stiff deadlift superset...2 x 8-10 each
-seated leg curl dropset...1 x 8-10, drop, 8-10

I have seen this work wonders on many of my clients. Try it if you dare! Best of luck!

Is this something an intermediate could try or do you recommend it only for more advanved lifters? Also, how long do you wait inbetween sets for the non-superset weeks?

Robboe · 04-29-2002, 11:03 AM

I gotta admit, Matt has a valid point when he asked "Secondly, why do you describe sets of 8-10 as "power" work? It becomes even more confusing when the next week only involves rep ranges slightly higher."

I too would be interested in hearing reasoning here.

**gopro** · 04-29-2002, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Neil

Is this something an intermediate could try or do you recommend it only for more advanved lifters? Also, how long do you wait inbetween sets for the non-superset weeks?

An intermediate can try this routine, but you may need to cut back slightly on sets...it depends on your recovery ability.

As for rests, I probably go about 3 minutes between sets on power week, and slightly less on rep range week. Don't get too caught up with rests between sets and focus more on the quality of work during your sets.

Let me know if you try it!

**gopro** · 04-29-2002, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy
I gotta admit, Matt has a valid point when he asked "Secondly, why do you describe sets of 8-10 as "power" work? It becomes even more confusing when the next week only involves rep ranges slightly higher."

I too would be interested in hearing reasoning here.

Generally I make "power" week slightly lower in reps, however, when I train a female and we are talking about legs, I go a little higher. I have found this to be more effective.

You must also remember that what I call power week may not be what a "powerlifter" would consider power week. This is a hypertrophy focused routine meant for bodybuilding purposes. This is different than what I prescribe to athletes looking primarily for strength, with hypertrophy being a secondary concern.

nikegurl · 04-29-2002, 04:14 PM

my thoughts - less important what it's called.
more important - what it is and what it does.

when i started training in college i was doing a routine similar to this with great results. supersets were key for me in getting my legs where i wanted.

stopping them - not so good.....lol

ActionMatt · 04-29-2002, 06:00 PM

Originally posted by gopro
Generally I make "power" week slightly lower in reps, however, when I train a female and we are talking about legs, I go a little higher. I have found this to be more effective.

Ok, that makes a bit more sense now.

You must also remember that what I call power week may not be what a "powerlifter" would consider power week. This is a hypertrophy focused routine meant for bodybuilding purposes. This is different than what I prescribe to athletes looking primarily for strength, with hypertrophy being a secondary concern.

Ok, given. But that set up basically trains three different goals at three different times. I've found that its more effective to concentrate on a single metabolic pathway for longer blocks, say at least 3-5 weeks, before changing up; otherwise, its too little time spent on any one thing and nothing gets done.

**gopro** · 04-29-2002, 06:52 PM

Quote:

[i][b]Originally posted by ActionMatt

Ok, given. But that set up basically trains three different goals at three different times. I've found that its more effective to concentrate on a single metabolic pathway for longer blocks, say at least 3-5 weeks, before changing up; otherwise, its too little time spent on any one thing and nothing gets done.

I have found the opposite. This particular set up is not meant for beginners, but more intermediate to advanced lifters, and has produced the most outstanding results of any routine I have ever formulated.

I feel the body needs alot of change, and alot more often than people think. Hypertrophy is caused by the effects of many types of training methods, and this 3 week rotation addresses most of them. I of course have developed several hybrids of this routine for use with extremely advanced athletes as well as ones who are not as advanced.

I would not preach anything that doesn't work...and simply put...THIS DOES! I realize it conflicts with alot that has been written in journals and by certain strength coaches, and that is exactly what you base most of what YOU say on...but if you limit yourself to what is already written, you can't advance further. I refuse to limit myself that way.

Nuff said!

Neil · 04-29-2002, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gopro

An intermediate can try this routine, but you may need to cut back slightly on sets...it depends on your recovery ability.

As for rests, I probably go about 3 minutes between sets on power week, and slightly less on rep range week. Don't get too caught up with rests between sets and focus more on the quality of work during your sets.

Let me know if you try it!

It looks very interesting, I certainly will try it. Do you do similar workouts for other body parts or is this something you do exclusively for legs?

**gopro** · 04-30-2002, 06:47 AM

I do this for all bodyparts for much of the year. It works well for everything!

ActionMatt · 04-30-2002, 06:53 AM

Well, to be absolutely honest, I don't see that it *wouldn't* work. The only thing I'd have to say is that the set volume looks a little high for my tastes; other than that, I can't really see anything "wrong" per se with it.

My preference while hypertrophy training was/is to combine the multiple pathways in a single session; but whatever works for you.

**gopro** · 04-30-2002, 07:03 AM

Set volume can be adjusted for the individual and their recovery abilities.

Robboe · 04-30-2002, 09:03 AM

Well, good luck with the routine.

04-26-2002, 05:24 PM	#1
nikegurl Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: LA, CA Posts: 5,634	LEGS - realistic goals? BODYBUILDING SUPPLEMENTS High Quality Supplements For Bodybuilders and Athletes. www.ironmaglabs.com i'll admit it. when i first started working out in college i trained legs HARD. i found my old training logs and damnnnnn. anyway - something happened and i started slacking big time. i got away with it for a long time too. now that i'm back at it training really hard and being insanely strict with my food my upper body is just about back to where it was when i was at my best shape. (chest just needs another month or so....) my legs are really lagging. it's my own fault. i've been a wussy girl and i regret it. that being said - i've been hitting them hard. last week i trained them thursday and they got sore late in the day friday and the soreness stuck around 'til wednesday. trained them last night. won't look all that impressive but i know i went to absolute failure. 4 sets leg press (after 1 warm up set) 4 sets extensions 4 sets stiff legged deadlifts 4 sets seated leg curls squats have been hurting my lower back so i'm going to take the hint and lay off them for a bit. i planned to alternate leg press with hacks. may try that sled thing....not so sure. it's sort of a cross between the hack machine and a leg press. you lay down and there's pads over your shoulders like the hack (but you're laying down) and you press like the leg press. is that good to alternate the hacks/presses or should i do both every time? i could use some guidance on how many exercises and sets to do. hamstrings are a weaker point then quads - but not that big a difference between the two. i'm training legs once a week. i was wondering too what is a realistic time frame to really bring them up? obviously a year can make a big difference but that's so long. should i be able to see real change (muscle gains) in 3 months? is that unrealistic? Last edited by nikegurl : 04-26-2002 at 05:57 PM.

04-26-2002, 06:17 PM	#2
gopro NGA/IFPA Pro Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Ft. Lauderdale Florida Posts: 10,477	Personally, I would like to see more variation in your program. If you really want to bring your legs up, try my 3 week leg cycle. Its tough, it hurts, but it works...and fast! week 1...power... -leg press...3 x 8-10 -hack squat...3 x 8-10 -leg extension...2-3 x 8-10 -lying leg curl...3 x 6-8 -stiff deadlift...3 x 6-8 week 2...rep range... -hack squat...3 x 10-12 -leg press...3 x 12-15 -single leg extension...2 x 15-20 -seated leg curl...2 x 8-10 -lying leg curl...2 x 10-12 -stiff deadlift...2 x 12-15 week 3...shock... -leg extension/leg press superset...2 x 8-10 each -leg extension/hack squat superset...2 x 8-10 each -lunge...1 x max -lying leg curl/stiff deadlift superset...2 x 8-10 each -seated leg curl dropset...1 x 8-10, drop, 8-10 I have seen this work wonders on many of my clients. Try it if you dare! Best of luck!
	Monthly columnist for Muscular Development and Ironman magazines. VPX Sponsored Athlete/Board Rep www.prrstraining.com Time to GROW Without Plateau! Personal Training Gopro is available for online personal training, dietary guidance, and contest prep coaching. Send me a PM or e-mail if interested. Thank you.

04-26-2002, 06:26 PM	#3
nikegurl Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: LA, CA Posts: 5,634	yep - i used to do lots of supersets and my legs were great. they were so hard. so that tells me it's the way to go! thanks for taking the time to post this for me. i'm going to do it! just did legs last night so won't be 'til next thursday. can you tell me more on week 3. like the lunges. with weight? (like what weight do you chose to do "max" reps?) and for the dropset on leg curls. you chose a weight you can do 8-10 reps with. do that. then move the pin to a lighter weight and immediately do 8-10 more no rest. yes? (so it's one set with one drop and total of 16-20 reps?) after week 3 do you go back to week 1 and repeat? thanks so much. i'm ready!
	Tomorrow may be the best day of your life. Or not.

04-26-2002, 06:41 PM	#5
nikegurl Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: LA, CA Posts: 5,634	thanks. awesome of you to take the time. lunges (last question - next you'll be getting progress reports) do you prefer they be done all one leg then all the other or alternate? most people seem to alternate. i think i prefer all one leg then all the other. does it matter?
	Tomorrow may be the best day of your life. Or not.

04-27-2002, 11:20 PM	#8
nikegurl Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: LA, CA Posts: 5,634	i'm so psyched. yes, i know that sounds very 80s of me. i've got the diet totally in order. i can see it happening. now i've got a plan for the weak point - legs. if i didn't make this change i know exactly what would happen. i'd keep getting leaner (good thing) and my upper body would be very defined - just about there now. seeing all the heads in my delts and the vein in my bicep is here to stay.... BUT i'd have these skinny little stick legs at the bottom and that's no good at all! thanks so much for taking the time to help me and giving me a good solid routine so i can get my butt in gear and fix it before the imbalance gets more obvious. did i say i'm psyched?
	Tomorrow may be the best day of your life. Or not.

04-26-2002, 09:35 PM	#6
elvn Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: ontario Posts: 74	i know gopro posted this for you bu i'll comment on thelunges i find that doing one leg at a time more beneficial b/c you really feel the muscle burn as opposed to alternating legs. just my opinion though i may have to try this workout as well, looks awesome

04-28-2002, 09:47 AM	#9
gopro NGA/IFPA Pro Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Ft. Lauderdale Florida Posts: 10,477	I'm psyched for you....
	Monthly columnist for Muscular Development and Ironman magazines. VPX Sponsored Athlete/Board Rep www.prrstraining.com Time to GROW Without Plateau! Personal Training Gopro is available for online personal training, dietary guidance, and contest prep coaching. Send me a PM or e-mail if interested. Thank you.

04-28-2002, 02:33 PM	#11
gopro NGA/IFPA Pro Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Ft. Lauderdale Florida Posts: 10,477	Action...your presence here is useless...back to the library for you!
	Monthly columnist for Muscular Development and Ironman magazines. VPX Sponsored Athlete/Board Rep www.prrstraining.com Time to GROW Without Plateau! Personal Training Gopro is available for online personal training, dietary guidance, and contest prep coaching. Send me a PM or e-mail if interested. Thank you.

04-28-2002, 04:27 PM	#12
ActionMatt Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Here Posts: 127	So I can't have a civil debate without you taking it personally?

04-29-2002, 05:56 AM	#13
gopro NGA/IFPA Pro Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Ft. Lauderdale Florida Posts: 10,477	Action...you are not here to have a civil debate. You are here to try and discredit my methods...you know it and I know it...unfortunately, you cannot discredit anything that has been wildly successful for a great many people, as my methods have been. You seem to forget that I am not an "imitator" but an "innovator." Although I like reading books, I love writing them. So go away and let me help out all the great people on this website.
	Monthly columnist for Muscular Development and Ironman magazines. VPX Sponsored Athlete/Board Rep www.prrstraining.com Time to GROW Without Plateau! Personal Training Gopro is available for online personal training, dietary guidance, and contest prep coaching. Send me a PM or e-mail if interested. Thank you.

04-29-2002, 11:03 AM	#16
Robboe Designer Supplements Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Newcastle Posts: 5,151	I gotta admit, Matt has a valid point when he asked "Secondly, why do you describe sets of 8-10 as "power" work? It becomes even more confusing when the next week only involves rep ranges slightly higher." I too would be interested in hearing reasoning here.
	Being held down by The Man

04-29-2002, 04:14 PM	#19
nikegurl Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: LA, CA Posts: 5,634	my thoughts - less important what it's called. more important - what it is and what it does. when i started training in college i was doing a routine similar to this with great results. supersets were key for me in getting my legs where i wanted. stopping them - not so good.....lol
	Tomorrow may be the best day of your life. Or not.

04-29-2002, 06:00 PM	#20
ActionMatt Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Here Posts: 127	Originally posted by gopro Generally I make "power" week slightly lower in reps, however, when I train a female and we are talking about legs, I go a little higher. I have found this to be more effective. Ok, that makes a bit more sense now. You must also remember that what I call power week may not be what a "powerlifter" would consider power week. This is a hypertrophy focused routine meant for bodybuilding purposes. This is different than what I prescribe to athletes looking primarily for strength, with hypertrophy being a secondary concern. Ok, given. But that set up basically trains three different goals at three different times. I've found that its more effective to concentrate on a single metabolic pathway for longer blocks, say at least 3-5 weeks, before changing up; otherwise, its too little time spent on any one thing and nothing gets done.

04-30-2002, 06:47 AM	#23
gopro NGA/IFPA Pro Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Ft. Lauderdale Florida Posts: 10,477	I do this for all bodyparts for much of the year. It works well for everything!
	Monthly columnist for Muscular Development and Ironman magazines. VPX Sponsored Athlete/Board Rep www.prrstraining.com Time to GROW Without Plateau! Personal Training Gopro is available for online personal training, dietary guidance, and contest prep coaching. Send me a PM or e-mail if interested. Thank you.

04-30-2002, 06:53 AM	#24
ActionMatt Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Here Posts: 127	Well, to be absolutely honest, I don't see that it wouldn't work. The only thing I'd have to say is that the set volume looks a little high for my tastes; other than that, I can't really see anything "wrong" per se with it. My preference while hypertrophy training was/is to combine the multiple pathways in a single session; but whatever works for you.

04-30-2002, 07:03 AM	#25
gopro NGA/IFPA Pro Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Ft. Lauderdale Florida Posts: 10,477	Set volume can be adjusted for the individual and their recovery abilities.
	Monthly columnist for Muscular Development and Ironman magazines. VPX Sponsored Athlete/Board Rep www.prrstraining.com Time to GROW Without Plateau! Personal Training Gopro is available for online personal training, dietary guidance, and contest prep coaching. Send me a PM or e-mail if interested. Thank you.

04-30-2002, 09:03 AM	#26
Robboe Designer Supplements Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Newcastle Posts: 5,151	Well, good luck with the routine.
	Being held down by The Man