Need help developing a new program

Bakerboy · 05-22-2006, 05:56 PM

So in two weeks I am planning to start a new program. I will be coming off a three day full body program. I have made some gains with this program (6 pounds to be exact) (thanks P-funk for your help

), which works out to about a pound a week, which for me is pretty good. I would like to continue to gain more mass, so I want to switch things up again.

Anyway, I plan to increase my calories by adding in one more meal (500calories) so I will be eating between 3,000 to 3,250 per day.

So I still want to do a lot of compound exercises but I want to do only 2 days with weights and one day of just bodyweight stuff (with added weight, when needed). I also want to do this because A) I want to get a taste for Olymipic lifting and B) I miss the bodyweight stuff. Thanks everyone.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
So I was thinking about doing something like this. Rip into it as you like.

Day 1 Olympic lifting (power, speed) (full body)
Off
Day 2 Bodyweight stuff (full body) endurance
Off
Day 3 Free weights (full body)
Off
Off
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day 1 45sec RI Tempo (medium/fast) I am most unsure about this day.

Front or back squat 5 x 5
Power clean singles for 5 sets
Power snatch singles for 5 sets

Day 2 30sec RI Tempo (fast/slow)

Box jumps (two leg then one leg) 8-10 reps/ 3 sets
One legged squats/ one leg box squats (with weight) 8-10 reps/ 3 sets
Pull ups/ chinups (with weight) 8- 10 reps/ 3 sets
Hindu pushups/ handstand pushups/ or weighted dips 8- 10 reps/ 3 sets

Day 3 60sec RI Tempo (slow/ medium)

Deadlift 5 reps/ 4 sets
BB behind the neck press, seated DB military press, or bench press (flat, incline) either BB (on heavy days) or one arm DB press on (medium weight days) 5 reps/ 4 sets
Standing BB calf raises or Standing DB single leg calf raises 8-12 reps/ 4 sets
BB bent over rows (with an underhand grip) or DB one arm rows 5 reps/ 4sets

**P-funk** · 05-22-2006, 06:18 PM

have you ever done the olympic lifts before? do you know how to do them?

I would put them in more then once a week.

squat after your quick lifts, not before them.

Bakerboy · 05-22-2006, 06:37 PM

First question.

I have mostly just done power cleans. The place I used to workout had an olympic lifting area with the bumper plates so I experimented with them for a few months. But no I have not been shown by an expert, but I am really interested in learning how to do them.

Maybe I am just asking for trouble, I don't know... But I have been reading up on olympic lifting for a while now and I feel the need to try them.
I realize the are complicated to do and require skill to do them correctly.

**P-funk** · 05-22-2006, 06:40 PM

I would really try and get someone to teach you. it is hard to read about them and try and do it or to watch a video clip and mimic what you "think" is going on and what IS really going on.

If you don't have anyone around to teach you I would particularly be nervous about trying to do snatches. they're the most technically difficult.

Bakerboy · 05-22-2006, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

I would really try and get someone to teach you. it is hard to read about them and try and do it or to watch a video clip and mimic what you "think" is going on and what IS really going on.

If you don't have anyone around to teach you I would particularly be nervous about trying to do snatches. they're the most technically difficult.

It's not really that big here (olympic lifting). I mean I just spent some time looking up (olympic lifting) in my city and not much comes up. I know a few highschools here use it as part of their training program but I am not sure if I want to ask some highschool football coach if he can show me how to do the olympic lifts!

I understand what you are saying about snaches, I never tried them because they looked too technical. I felt more comfortable with the power cleans and the only power overhead movement I would do were DB clean and presses (one or two arm). I guess I thought I could figure it out if I started light and worked on my technique. I have always been quite athletic so I guess I just thought hell I can do that, but I know it is harder than it looks!

I might scrap this whole program and start from scratch....

**P-funk** · 05-22-2006, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bakerboy

It's not really that big here (olympic lifting). I mean I just spent some time looking up (olympic lifting) in my city and not much comes up. I know a few highschools here use it as part of their training program but I am not sure if I want to ask some highschool football coach if he can show me how to do the olympic lifts!

I understand what you are saying about snaches, I never tried them because they looked too technical. I felt more comfortable with the power cleans and the only power overhead movement I would do were DB clean and presses (one or two arm). I guess I thought I could figure it out if I started light and worked on my technique. I have always been quite athletic so I guess I just thought hell I can do that, but I know it is harder than it looks!

I might scrap this whole program and start from scratch....

there is a lot of lifting on planet earth.

where is "here".

I would scap the snatches for now.

can you get a video clip of you doing a power clean?

don't scrap the program....there are ways you can do it to make it work. lets keep exploring ideas.

Bakerboy · 05-22-2006, 07:52 PM

Thanks P.

Here is all I could find:

Power Clean
http://www.eou.edu/~pevideo1/ (click on Power Clean, bottom right hand corner under strength training)

One arm snatch
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...185658&q=squat

**CowPimp** · 05-22-2006, 10:14 PM

I think the periodization behind the program makes sense. That is, one day for power/speed, one day for endurance, and one day for strength/hypertrophy. I do, however, think you could stand to raise the volume on your power workout, and probably on the endurance workout as well.

Bakerboy · 05-22-2006, 11:05 PM

Yeah, I think you are right about the volume CowPimp.
I just threw this together quick because I was unsure about it.

So you think the periodzation behind the program makes sence?
That was my main concern, everything else can be tweaked.

P said he thinks I need more to put in more olympic lifts (on another day).
What are your suggestions?

**CowPimp** · 05-22-2006, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bakerboy

Yeah, I think you are right about the volume CowPimp.
I just threw this together quick because I was unsure about it.

So you think the periodzation behind the program makes sence?
That was my main concern, everything else can be tweaked.

P said he thinks I need more to put in more olympic lifts (on another day).
What are your suggestions?

Yeah, it's undulating periodization. I would include it on your endurance day, even though that is really a hypertrophy intensity range, because it would be a better idea to keep your neurally demanding training days separated. So it would look something like this:

Power

Speed and Hypertrophy

Strength

Maybe on power day you could work more toward the strength end of the continuum and on speed day you could work more toward the speed end of the continuum?

Bakerboy · 05-23-2006, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

Yeah, it's undulating periodization. I would include it on your endurance day, even though that is really a hypertrophy intensity range, because it would be a better idea to keep your neurally demanding training days separated. So it would look something like this:

Power

Speed and Hypertrophy

Strength

Maybe on power day you could work more toward the strength end of the continuum and on speed day you could work more toward the speed end of the continuum?

Thanks guys, I guess I will sleep on it. I here what you are saying CowPimp about organizing it that way (Power, Speed and Hypertrophy, and Strength) I just have to think of a way to balance it all out. I am also not sure about the exercises I picked for day two, something seems a little flat. The idea I started with in my head was simple enough but now I'm not sure how to make it work.

**P-funk** · 05-23-2006, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bakerboy

P said he thinks I need more to put in more olympic lifts (on another day).
What are your suggestions?

if you are going to lift with weights 2 days a week and have a workout of just BW on a third day, you can do something on those two days like power clean from the floor on one day and then power clean from an above the knee hang position on the other day. On the day that you go from the hang, you can jerk the weight over head at the end (since the weight will be lighter then when you are pulling from the floor and you can work your jerk technique a little better).

the rest of the lifts on those days can be regular, general strength training.

Bakerboy · 05-23-2006, 08:26 AM

P I like your suggestions. My main question is do I put the extra clean/ modified jerk on my bodyweight day or my other weight day?
I think you mean I should put it on my other weight day.

So it would be set up like this:

Day 1 (focus) Power

Power clean (from hang)
jerk from hang position
Box jumps
Front or back squat

Day 2 (focus) hypertrophy BW exercises

Pistols or DB single leg RDL's
Pullups/ chinups (with weight)
Hindu pushups/ divebombers/ one arm pushups/ handstand push ups (pick 2)
Dips (with weight)

Day 3 (focus) Strength

Deadlift
Cleans from floor
BB or DB Over head press or BB or DB bench (flat, incline)
Rows
Standing calf raises

Are those exercises ok?
Power, strength, speed, hypertrophy. I'm still not sure how to organize this?
Reps and sets?

**P-funk** · 05-23-2006, 01:27 PM

suggestions with in the quote..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bakerboy

P I like your suggestions. My main question is do I put the extra clean/ modified jerk on my bodyweight day or my other weight day?
I think you mean I should put it on my other weight day.

So it would be set up like this:

Day 1 (focus) Power

Power clean (from hang)
jerk from hang position
Box jumps
Front or back squat

exercise order is strange here. what is a jerk from the hang position? The order should go like this:

warm up
hang power clean + jerk
box jump
front squat

that day is pretty minimal. I would take some of your exercises on day 2 and throw them on this day, like chin ups, maybe dips too. Then, i would add in more lifting on wed. But that is just me. Anyway, exercise order should go:

warm up
technique lifts
power/ballistic exercises
strength
hypertrophy
endurance

Day 2 (focus) hypertrophy BW exercises

Pistols or DB single leg RDL's
Pullups/ chinups (with weight)
Hindu pushups/ divebombers/ one arm pushups/ handstand push ups (pick 2)
Dips (with weight)

again, I would break up these things and place them onto the other days and add another day of liftin here.

Day 3 (focus) Strength

Deadlift
Cleans from floor
BB or DB Over head press or BB or DB bench (flat, incline)
Rows
Standing calf raises

again, excise order. put the cleans first....power cleans (from the floor), then deadlifts.

Are those exercises ok?

Power, strength, speed, hypertrophy. I'm still not sure how to organize this?
Reps and sets?

**P-funk** · 05-23-2006, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bakerboy

Thanks P.

Here is all I could find:

Power Clean
http://www.eou.edu/~pevideo1/ (click on Power Clean, bottom right hand corner under strength training)

One arm snatch
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...185658&q=squat

a) those power cleans are awful. just awful

b) you NEVER EVER EVER spot a power clean. Those to fat asses are morons.

**Dale Mabry** · 05-23-2006, 02:04 PM

Those 2 idiots probably need a spot because the bar is about 3 feet in front of them on the second pull. I sometimes try to spot that exercise from the front without the use of my hands, usually just my teeth and forehead.

**P-funk** · 05-23-2006, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

Those 2 idiots probably need a spot because the bar is about 3 feet in front of them on the second pull. I sometimes try to spot that exercise from the front without the use of my hands, usually just my teeth and forehead.

seriously! that is almost as bad as my clean.

Bakerboy · 05-23-2006, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

a) those power cleans are awful. just awful

b) you NEVER EVER EVER spot a power clean. Those to fat asses are morons.

a) This is good to know. I will try to get a video clip from a more reputable site.
b) I didn't even look at that clip. But yeah, that won't be happening.
I may not know everything, but I do know that spotting power cleans and snatches is just plain idiotic. Sorry about the garbage clips. I will look for some better ones later on today.

Also, I was looking over what you said above and I am a bit confused. Are you saying I should still keep to a three day program and just adjust some of the exercises and their order or are you saying that I need to add a whole new day? 1,2,3 or 1,2,3,4?

Sorry, P, I know I am monopolizing a lot of your time with this, I just want to be clear on what you are saying.
By the way I appreciate all your help.

**P-funk** · 05-23-2006, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bakerboy

a) This is good to know. I will try to get a video clip from a more reputable site.
b) I didn't even look at that clip. But yeah, that won't be happening.
I may not know everything, but I do know that spotting power cleans and snatches is just plain idiotic. Sorry about the garbage clips. I will look for some better ones later on today.

Also, I was looking over what you said above and I am a bit confused. Are you saying I should still keep to a three day program and just adjust some of the exercises and their order or are you saying that I need to add a whole new day? 1,2,3 or 1,2,3,4?

Sorry, P, I know I am monopolizing a lot of your time with this, I just want to be clear on what you are saying.
By the way I appreciate all your help.

although I hate crossfit and thing the programs are stupid, here is a link to their website, where they have the exercises. It is graet for the olympic lifts because it is American Internaltion Coach Mike Burgenger doing the teaching.

olympiclifting videos

RE: program

I am saying, take the exercises that you have on your BW day/hypertophy day and divide them up over the day 1 and day 3 workouts. that way, you get to hit the BW stuff AND create a new day 2 with some "real" hypertrophy type training. Know what I mean?

Bakerboy · 05-23-2006, 04:40 PM

Is this any better, P- funk, CowPimp....Dale???
Can you make some suggestions on my sets and reps?
Do you think this setup is logical?

P thanks for the olympic lift links, much better than mine.

Day 1
Warm up
Hang power clean + jerk
Box jump (two leg, one leg)
Front squat or back squat
Chin ups (weighted)
Dips (weighted)
Calf raises

Day 2
Warm up
Step ups or farmer walks
Pistols or bulgarian squats
One legged RDL's
BB or DB rows
BB or DB Calf raises cycled with push ups (handstand, one arm, hindu, divebombers) 2 types, alternating each time
Calf raises

Day 3
Warm up
Power cleans
Deadlifts
overhead press, bench press BB or DB (incline, flat, one arm)or handstand pushups) 1-2 types, alternating each time
Chinups/pull ups
Optional: dips

**P-funk** · 05-23-2006, 05:04 PM

still lots of stuff that is all over the place.

try and make it simple. you are being to complicated.

day1- strength
power clean- 4 x 2
deadlift- 5 sets x 1 rep
overhead press- 3 sets x 5 reps
chin up- 3 sets x 6 reps
hyperextensions or glute ham raise- 3 sets x 8-10 reps

day2- power day
hang power clean + jerk- 4 sets x 2 reps
snatch pull- 4 sets x 2 reps
front squat- 4 sets x 2 reps
dip- 3 x 8
pulldown- 3 x 8

day3- hypertrophy
back squat- 3 x 8-10
bench pres- 3 x 8-10
1-leg RDL- 3 x 8-10
DB row- 3 x 8-10
calves- 3 x 12-15 reps

**P-funk** · 05-23-2006, 05:11 PM

ofcourse, i would probably go with something that is a 5x5 Bill Starr approach.

either that or something like

day1 + 3
squat + pressing movements

day2 + 4
lower body pulling movements + upper pull

**CowPimp** · 05-23-2006, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

a) those power cleans are awful. just awful

b) you NEVER EVER EVER spot a power clean. Those to fat asses are morons.

Wow, they are bad. They are just upright rowing those bars, especially that guy getting spotted, Jesus. They aren't snapping their hips up worth a damn. That minimal ass hop each of them are doing isn't fooling me. That's the biggest problem I see with cleans; people use their fucking upper body too much. Hips, knees, ankles, shrug, and get under it!

shiznit2169 · 05-23-2006, 10:58 PM

Quote:

although I hate crossfit and thing the programs are stupid, here is a link to their website, where they have the exercises. It is graet for the olympic lifts because it is American Internaltion Coach Mike Burgenger doing the teaching.

GoalGetter did/does that type of training

05-22-2006, 05:56 PM	#1
Bakerboy cat burglar Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: the city of champions Posts: 4,146 Photos: 3	Need help developing a new program So in two weeks I am planning to start a new program. I will be coming off a three day full body program. I have made some gains with this program (6 pounds to be exact) (thanks P-funk for your help ), which works out to about a pound a week, which for me is pretty good. I would like to continue to gain more mass, so I want to switch things up again. Anyway, I plan to increase my calories by adding in one more meal (500calories) so I will be eating between 3,000 to 3,250 per day. So I still want to do a lot of compound exercises but I want to do only 2 days with weights and one day of just bodyweight stuff (with added weight, when needed). I also want to do this because A) I want to get a taste for Olymipic lifting and B) I miss the bodyweight stuff. Thanks everyone. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- So I was thinking about doing something like this. Rip into it as you like. Day 1 Olympic lifting (power, speed) (full body) Off Day 2 Bodyweight stuff (full body) endurance Off Day 3 Free weights (full body) Off Off -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Day 1 45sec RI Tempo (medium/fast) I am most unsure about this day. Front or back squat 5 x 5 Power clean singles for 5 sets Power snatch singles for 5 sets Day 2 30sec RI Tempo (fast/slow) Box jumps (two leg then one leg) 8-10 reps/ 3 sets One legged squats/ one leg box squats (with weight) 8-10 reps/ 3 sets Pull ups/ chinups (with weight) 8- 10 reps/ 3 sets Hindu pushups/ handstand pushups/ or weighted dips 8- 10 reps/ 3 sets Day 3 60sec RI Tempo (slow/ medium) Deadlift 5 reps/ 4 sets BB behind the neck press, seated DB military press, or bench press (flat, incline) either BB (on heavy days) or one arm DB press on (medium weight days) 5 reps/ 4 sets Standing BB calf raises or Standing DB single leg calf raises 8-12 reps/ 4 sets BB bent over rows (with an underhand grip) or DB one arm rows 5 reps/ 4sets

05-22-2006, 06:18 PM	#2
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,574	have you ever done the olympic lifts before? do you know how to do them? I would put them in more then once a week. squat after your quick lifts, not before them.
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! Ivonne's Blog on Health and Wellness! Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

05-22-2006, 06:40 PM	#4
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,574	I would really try and get someone to teach you. it is hard to read about them and try and do it or to watch a video clip and mimic what you "think" is going on and what IS really going on. If you don't have anyone around to teach you I would particularly be nervous about trying to do snatches. they're the most technically difficult.
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! Ivonne's Blog on Health and Wellness! Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

05-22-2006, 10:14 PM	#8
CowPimp Fueled by Testosterone Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 15,428	I think the periodization behind the program makes sense. That is, one day for power/speed, one day for endurance, and one day for strength/hypertrophy. I do, however, think you could stand to raise the volume on your power workout, and probably on the endurance workout as well.
	The only time it's bad to feel the burn is when you're peeing... CowPimp Picks Up Heavy Shit MySpace YouTube Videos

05-23-2006, 02:04 PM	#16
Dale Mabry Moderator Moderator Join Date: May 2003 Location: Elsewhere Posts: 13,873 Photos: 10	Those 2 idiots probably need a spot because the bar is about 3 feet in front of them on the second pull. I sometimes try to spot that exercise from the front without the use of my hands, usually just my teeth and forehead.
	If sense were common, everyone would have it. 4/2007-Current 75th Ranked most popular image 1 spot behind Prince's bulge...

05-22-2006, 06:37 PM	#3
Bakerboy cat burglar Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: the city of champions Posts: 4,146 Photos: 3	First question. I have mostly just done power cleans. The place I used to workout had an olympic lifting area with the bumper plates so I experimented with them for a few months. But no I have not been shown by an expert, but I am really interested in learning how to do them. Maybe I am just asking for trouble, I don't know... But I have been reading up on olympic lifting for a while now and I feel the need to try them. I realize the are complicated to do and require skill to do them correctly.

05-22-2006, 07:52 PM	#7
Bakerboy cat burglar Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: the city of champions Posts: 4,146 Photos: 3	Thanks P. Here is all I could find: Power Clean http://www.eou.edu/~pevideo1/ (click on Power Clean, bottom right hand corner under strength training) One arm snatch http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...185658&q=squat

05-22-2006, 11:05 PM	#9
Bakerboy cat burglar Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: the city of champions Posts: 4,146 Photos: 3	Yeah, I think you are right about the volume CowPimp. I just threw this together quick because I was unsure about it. So you think the periodzation behind the program makes sence? That was my main concern, everything else can be tweaked. P said he thinks I need more to put in more olympic lifts (on another day). What are your suggestions?

05-23-2006, 08:26 AM	#13
Bakerboy cat burglar Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: the city of champions Posts: 4,146 Photos: 3	P I like your suggestions. My main question is do I put the extra clean/ modified jerk on my bodyweight day or my other weight day? I think you mean I should put it on my other weight day. So it would be set up like this: Day 1 (focus) Power Power clean (from hang) jerk from hang position Box jumps Front or back squat Day 2 (focus) hypertrophy BW exercises Pistols or DB single leg RDL's Pullups/ chinups (with weight) Hindu pushups/ divebombers/ one arm pushups/ handstand push ups (pick 2) Dips (with weight) Day 3 (focus) Strength Deadlift Cleans from floor BB or DB Over head press or BB or DB bench (flat, incline) Rows Standing calf raises Are those exercises ok? Power, strength, speed, hypertrophy. I'm still not sure how to organize this? Reps and sets?

05-23-2006, 04:40 PM	#20
Bakerboy cat burglar Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: the city of champions Posts: 4,146 Photos: 3	Is this any better, P- funk, CowPimp....Dale??? Can you make some suggestions on my sets and reps? Do you think this setup is logical? P thanks for the olympic lift links, much better than mine. Day 1 Warm up Hang power clean + jerk Box jump (two leg, one leg) Front squat or back squat Chin ups (weighted) Dips (weighted) Calf raises Day 2 Warm up Step ups or farmer walks Pistols or bulgarian squats One legged RDL's BB or DB rows BB or DB Calf raises cycled with push ups (handstand, one arm, hindu, divebombers) 2 types, alternating each time Calf raises Day 3 Warm up Power cleans Deadlifts overhead press, bench press BB or DB (incline, flat, one arm)or handstand pushups) 1-2 types, alternating each time Chinups/pull ups Optional: dips

05-23-2006, 05:04 PM	#21
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,574	still lots of stuff that is all over the place. try and make it simple. you are being to complicated. day1- strength power clean- 4 x 2 deadlift- 5 sets x 1 rep overhead press- 3 sets x 5 reps chin up- 3 sets x 6 reps hyperextensions or glute ham raise- 3 sets x 8-10 reps day2- power day hang power clean + jerk- 4 sets x 2 reps snatch pull- 4 sets x 2 reps front squat- 4 sets x 2 reps dip- 3 x 8 pulldown- 3 x 8 day3- hypertrophy back squat- 3 x 8-10 bench pres- 3 x 8-10 1-leg RDL- 3 x 8-10 DB row- 3 x 8-10 calves- 3 x 12-15 reps
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! Ivonne's Blog on Health and Wellness! Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

05-23-2006, 05:11 PM	#22
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,574	ofcourse, i would probably go with something that is a 5x5 Bill Starr approach. either that or something like day1 + 3 squat + pressing movements day2 + 4 lower body pulling movements + upper pull
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! Ivonne's Blog on Health and Wellness! Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book