Thread: Need help developing a new program

have you ever done the olympic lifts before? do you know how to do them?

I would put them in more then once a week.

squat after your quick lifts, not before them.

First question.

I have mostly just done power cleans. The place I used to workout had an olympic lifting area with the bumper plates so I experimented with them for a few months. But no I have not been shown by an expert, but I am really interested in learning how to do them.

Maybe I am just asking for trouble, I don't know... But I have been reading up on olympic lifting for a while now and I feel the need to try them.
I realize the are complicated to do and require skill to do them correctly.

I would really try and get someone to teach you. it is hard to read about them and try and do it or to watch a video clip and mimic what you "think" is going on and what IS really going on.

If you don't have anyone around to teach you I would particularly be nervous about trying to do snatches. they're the most technically difficult.

Originally Posted by P-funk

I would really try and get someone to teach you. it is hard to read about them and try and do it or to watch a video clip and mimic what you "think" is going on and what IS really going on.

If you don't have anyone around to teach you I would particularly be nervous about trying to do snatches. they're the most technically difficult.

It's not really that big here (olympic lifting). I mean I just spent some time looking up (olympic lifting) in my city and not much comes up. I know a few highschools here use it as part of their training program but I am not sure if I want to ask some highschool football coach if he can show me how to do the olympic lifts!

I understand what you are saying about snaches, I never tried them because they looked too technical. I felt more comfortable with the power cleans and the only power overhead movement I would do were DB clean and presses (one or two arm). I guess I thought I could figure it out if I started light and worked on my technique. I have always been quite athletic so I guess I just thought hell I can do that, but I know it is harder than it looks!

I might scrap this whole program and start from scratch....

Originally Posted by Bakerboy

It's not really that big here (olympic lifting). I mean I just spent some time looking up (olympic lifting) in my city and not much comes up. I know a few highschools here use it as part of their training program but I am not sure if I want to ask some highschool football coach if he can show me how to do the olympic lifts!

I understand what you are saying about snaches, I never tried them because they looked too technical. I felt more comfortable with the power cleans and the only power overhead movement I would do were DB clean and presses (one or two arm). I guess I thought I could figure it out if I started light and worked on my technique. I have always been quite athletic so I guess I just thought hell I can do that, but I know it is harder than it looks!

I might scrap this whole program and start from scratch....

there is a lot of lifting on planet earth.

where is "here".

I would scap the snatches for now.

can you get a video clip of you doing a power clean?

don't scrap the program....there are ways you can do it to make it work. lets keep exploring ideas.

Thanks P.

Here is all I could find:

Power Clean
http://www.eou.edu/~pevideo1/ (click on Power Clean, bottom right hand corner under strength training)

One arm snatch
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...185658&q=squat

I think the periodization behind the program makes sense. That is, one day for power/speed, one day for endurance, and one day for strength/hypertrophy. I do, however, think you could stand to raise the volume on your power workout, and probably on the endurance workout as well.

Yeah, I think you are right about the volume CowPimp.
I just threw this together quick because I was unsure about it.

So you think the periodzation behind the program makes sence?
That was my main concern, everything else can be tweaked.

P said he thinks I need more to put in more olympic lifts (on another day).
What are your suggestions?

Originally Posted by Bakerboy

Yeah, I think you are right about the volume CowPimp.
I just threw this together quick because I was unsure about it.

So you think the periodzation behind the program makes sence?
That was my main concern, everything else can be tweaked.

P said he thinks I need more to put in more olympic lifts (on another day).
What are your suggestions?

Yeah, it's undulating periodization. I would include it on your endurance day, even though that is really a hypertrophy intensity range, because it would be a better idea to keep your neurally demanding training days separated. So it would look something like this:

Power

Speed and Hypertrophy

Strength


Maybe on power day you could work more toward the strength end of the continuum and on speed day you could work more toward the speed end of the continuum?

Originally Posted by CowPimp

Yeah, it's undulating periodization. I would include it on your endurance day, even though that is really a hypertrophy intensity range, because it would be a better idea to keep your neurally demanding training days separated. So it would look something like this:

Power

Speed and Hypertrophy

Strength


Maybe on power day you could work more toward the strength end of the continuum and on speed day you could work more toward the speed end of the continuum?

Thanks guys, I guess I will sleep on it. I here what you are saying CowPimp about organizing it that way (Power, Speed and Hypertrophy, and Strength) I just have to think of a way to balance it all out. I am also not sure about the exercises I picked for day two, something seems a little flat. The idea I started with in my head was simple enough but now I'm not sure how to make it work.

Originally Posted by Bakerboy

P said he thinks I need more to put in more olympic lifts (on another day).
What are your suggestions?

if you are going to lift with weights 2 days a week and have a workout of just BW on a third day, you can do something on those two days like power clean from the floor on one day and then power clean from an above the knee hang position on the other day. On the day that you go from the hang, you can jerk the weight over head at the end (since the weight will be lighter then when you are pulling from the floor and you can work your jerk technique a little better).

the rest of the lifts on those days can be regular, general strength training.

P I like your suggestions. My main question is do I put the extra clean/ modified jerk on my bodyweight day or my other weight day?
I think you mean I should put it on my other weight day.

So it would be set up like this:

Day 1 (focus) Power

Power clean (from hang)
jerk from hang position
Box jumps
Front or back squat

Day 2 (focus) hypertrophy BW exercises

Pistols or DB single leg RDL's
Pullups/ chinups (with weight)
Hindu pushups/ divebombers/ one arm pushups/ handstand push ups (pick 2)
Dips (with weight)


Day 3 (focus) Strength

Deadlift
Cleans from floor
BB or DB Over head press or BB or DB bench (flat, incline)
Rows
Standing calf raises

Are those exercises ok?
Power, strength, speed, hypertrophy. I'm still not sure how to organize this?
Reps and sets?

suggestions with in the quote..

Originally Posted by Bakerboy

P I like your suggestions. My main question is do I put the extra clean/ modified jerk on my bodyweight day or my other weight day?
I think you mean I should put it on my other weight day.

So it would be set up like this:

Day 1 (focus) Power

Power clean (from hang)
jerk from hang position
Box jumps
Front or back squat

exercise order is strange here. what is a jerk from the hang position? The order should go like this:

warm up
hang power clean + jerk
box jump
front squat

that day is pretty minimal. I would take some of your exercises on day 2 and throw them on this day, like chin ups, maybe dips too. Then, i would add in more lifting on wed. But that is just me. Anyway, exercise order should go:

warm up
technique lifts
power/ballistic exercises
strength
hypertrophy
endurance


Day 2 (focus) hypertrophy BW exercises

Pistols or DB single leg RDL's
Pullups/ chinups (with weight)
Hindu pushups/ divebombers/ one arm pushups/ handstand push ups (pick 2)
Dips (with weight)

again, I would break up these things and place them onto the other days and add another day of liftin here.


Day 3 (focus) Strength

Deadlift
Cleans from floor
BB or DB Over head press or BB or DB bench (flat, incline)
Rows
Standing calf raises

again, excise order. put the cleans first....power cleans (from the floor), then deadlifts.

Are those exercises ok?

Power, strength, speed, hypertrophy. I'm still not sure how to organize this?
Reps and sets?

Originally Posted by Bakerboy

Thanks P.

Here is all I could find:

Power Clean
http://www.eou.edu/~pevideo1/ (click on Power Clean, bottom right hand corner under strength training)

One arm snatch
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...185658&q=squat

a) those power cleans are awful. just awful

b) you NEVER EVER EVER spot a power clean. Those to fat asses are morons.

Those 2 idiots probably need a spot because the bar is about 3 feet in front of them on the second pull. I sometimes try to spot that exercise from the front without the use of my hands, usually just my teeth and forehead.

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

Those 2 idiots probably need a spot because the bar is about 3 feet in front of them on the second pull. I sometimes try to spot that exercise from the front without the use of my hands, usually just my teeth and forehead.

seriously! that is almost as bad as my clean.

Originally Posted by P-funk

a) those power cleans are awful. just awful

b) you NEVER EVER EVER spot a power clean. Those to fat asses are morons.

a) This is good to know. I will try to get a video clip from a more reputable site.
b) I didn't even look at that clip. But yeah, that won't be happening.
I may not know everything, but I do know that spotting power cleans and snatches is just plain idiotic. Sorry about the garbage clips. I will look for some better ones later on today.

Also, I was looking over what you said above and I am a bit confused. Are you saying I should still keep to a three day program and just adjust some of the exercises and their order or are you saying that I need to add a whole new day? 1,2,3 or 1,2,3,4?

Sorry, P, I know I am monopolizing a lot of your time with this, I just want to be clear on what you are saying.
By the way I appreciate all your help.

Originally Posted by Bakerboy

a) This is good to know. I will try to get a video clip from a more reputable site.
b) I didn't even look at that clip. But yeah, that won't be happening.
I may not know everything, but I do know that spotting power cleans and snatches is just plain idiotic. Sorry about the garbage clips. I will look for some better ones later on today.

Also, I was looking over what you said above and I am a bit confused. Are you saying I should still keep to a three day program and just adjust some of the exercises and their order or are you saying that I need to add a whole new day? 1,2,3 or 1,2,3,4?

Sorry, P, I know I am monopolizing a lot of your time with this, I just want to be clear on what you are saying.
By the way I appreciate all your help.

although I hate crossfit and thing the programs are stupid, here is a link to their website, where they have the exercises. It is graet for the olympic lifts because it is American Internaltion Coach Mike Burgenger doing the teaching.

olympiclifting videos


RE: program

I am saying, take the exercises that you have on your BW day/hypertophy day and divide them up over the day 1 and day 3 workouts. that way, you get to hit the BW stuff AND create a new day 2 with some "real" hypertrophy type training. Know what I mean?

Is this any better, P- funk, CowPimp....Dale???
Can you make some suggestions on my sets and reps?
Do you think this setup is logical?

P thanks for the olympic lift links, much better than mine.

Day 1
Warm up
Hang power clean + jerk
Box jump (two leg, one leg)
Front squat or back squat
Chin ups (weighted)
Dips (weighted)
Calf raises

Day 2
Warm up
Step ups or farmer walks
Pistols or bulgarian squats
One legged RDL's
BB or DB rows
BB or DB Calf raises cycled with push ups (handstand, one arm, hindu, divebombers) 2 types, alternating each time
Calf raises

Day 3
Warm up
Power cleans
Deadlifts
overhead press, bench press BB or DB (incline, flat, one arm)or handstand pushups) 1-2 types, alternating each time
Chinups/pull ups
Optional: dips

still lots of stuff that is all over the place.

try and make it simple. you are being to complicated.

day1- strength
power clean- 4 x 2
deadlift- 5 sets x 1 rep
overhead press- 3 sets x 5 reps
chin up- 3 sets x 6 reps
hyperextensions or glute ham raise- 3 sets x 8-10 reps

day2- power day
hang power clean + jerk- 4 sets x 2 reps
snatch pull- 4 sets x 2 reps
front squat- 4 sets x 2 reps
dip- 3 x 8
pulldown- 3 x 8

day3- hypertrophy
back squat- 3 x 8-10
bench pres- 3 x 8-10
1-leg RDL- 3 x 8-10
DB row- 3 x 8-10
calves- 3 x 12-15 reps

ofcourse, i would probably go with something that is a 5x5 Bill Starr approach.

either that or something like

day1 + 3
squat + pressing movements

day2 + 4
lower body pulling movements + upper pull

Originally Posted by P-funk

a) those power cleans are awful. just awful

b) you NEVER EVER EVER spot a power clean. Those to fat asses are morons.

Wow, they are bad. They are just upright rowing those bars, especially that guy getting spotted, Jesus. They aren't snapping their hips up worth a damn. That minimal ass hop each of them are doing isn't fooling me. That's the biggest problem I see with cleans; people use their fucking upper body too much. Hips, knees, ankles, shrug, and get under it!

although I hate crossfit and thing the programs are stupid, here is a link to their website, where they have the exercises. It is graet for the olympic lifts because it is American Internaltion Coach Mike Burgenger doing the teaching.

GoalGetter did/does that type of training

Originally Posted by shiznit2169

GoalGetter did/does that type of training

a) she did to twice and quit

b) she quit becasue it was stupid and she hated it

Originally Posted by P-funk

still lots of stuff that is all over the place.

try and make it simple. you are being to complicated.

P, you didn't leave me much in the way off bodyweight exercises, but I think that's okay, I understand the concept behind the program: work hard on the basics/ and hit them more often. Simple is better. Maybe after 6 weeks of something like this I will try a program with more bodyweight stuff. I do what more size, so I guess I should just keep it simple. I do have a tendancy to get too fancy. My changes and questions are in black. Thanks.

day1- strength
power clean- 4 x 2 no rest
deadlift- 5 sets x 1 rep no rest
overhead press- 3 sets x 5 reps 45-60 RI
chin up- 3 sets x 6 reps (with extra weight) 45-60 RI
hyperextensions or glute ham raise- 3 sets x 8-10 reps (neck bridge) Timed

day2- power day
hang power clean + jerk- 4 sets x 2 reps RI?
snatch pull- 4 sets x 2 reps RI?
front squat- 4 sets x 2 reps RI?
dip- 3 x 8 (with extra weight) RI 45sec
pulldown- 3 x 8 pull up (with extra weight) RI 45sec

day3- hypertrophy RI 30sec
back squat- 3 x 8-10
bench pres- 3 x 8-10 (rotate: flat, incline, single DB)
1-leg RDL- 3 x 8-10
DB row- 3 x 8-10 (rotate: BB row with undehand grip, DB row)
calves- 3 x 12-15 reps (rotate: standing BB, single legged DB)

There you go.

why no rest on those exercises??

on hypertrophy day, rest 45-60sec

power day- 90-120sec

strength day- 2-3 min.


Dude, BW exercises are jsut that, BW exercises. Why base a whole workout around them? Do them on days off, as GPP work (maybe in a circuit fashion, maybe not). No need to waste a day of lifting though. Set up two body weight routines to do on days off from training.

maybe:

mon- weights
tues- BW shit
wed- weights
thurs- off
fri- weights
sat- BW shit
sun- off

ya dig?

oh yea,

why substitute neck bridges for hypers?

don;t rotate your benching....work on just flat bench for a few weeks. Then. next cycle change it.

No hypers? I don't have access to that particular apparatus so I can't do them.
I subtituded neck bridges for hypers because they are a good exercise for developing better hip flexibility, endurance and to help improve the health and mobility of my spine.

RI's ?
I have my RI's like that because I have worked hard at being able to lift heavy (my heavy) without a lot of recovery in between. That is why I like to work with only a few exercises a day.

I think the way most people do bodyweight exercises they make it more a high endurance, low intensity. But if I included what I do in between my weight days it would be too much. I liked the 3 day program you helped me create before because I had enough days to recover. I know for myself I benifit more from working hard and fast with a day or two rest in between.

P, I still think you don't give bodyweight exercises the respect they deserve.
Sure it's different than moving heavy weights but until you can pump out the the below exercises with ease, stop making them seem trivial.

One arm handstand holds, 20 handstand pushups
Pistols holding a 45lb weight plate for reps
One arm pushups 15 or more, hindu pushups sets of 100
Muscle ups 10 or more


This is not a slam to you P because I know you mix things up a lot. All I am saying is that I think there are a lot of people who don't have a clue about how to effectively move their own bodyweight.