Duncans Donuts

Right now I'm at 245 at 6'1.

I haven't done deadlifts in a while because of my lower back, but I"m ready to reincorporate. I'm working out 4 times a week and I like to keep the workout well under 45 minutes.

I'm really interested in short rest intervals between sets. I did timed (1-1.5 minutes) intervals and got some good results. Increasing the actual volume of my work sets seems to give me a puffier look - less "solid" if you will, but at the same time larger (less dense). probably do to actual storage of fuel in and around the muscle in accordance with that silly SAID principle. I'm wondering if this is too short or too long a break between sets? I'm also taking about 5 minutes between exercises, although it's more necessity than anything It certainly acts as a terrible imposition on my body. Any suggestions? I've heard of people doing Arthur Jones style 10 minute workouts no break (aka hell), 30 second rest intervals, 2 - 3 minute rest intervals, etc. I obviously want the body to be in a state of near trauma by the time I go from set one to set two, but with enough time elapsed to resupply my energy needs to perform 5-6 reps.

My goal is to be 260 solid by the end of summer. Realistic goal? Here's me now (long sleeve shirt though) DD Current

"in the howling bleeding nights, the dogs plunge into the Volga and swim desperately to gain the other bank. The nights of Stalingrad are a terror for them. Animals flee this hell; the hardest stones cannot bear it for long; only men endure."

P-funk

maybe you could try some density training. I had graet experience with it and it kicked my ass.....

I did it on an upper and lower split:

upper
lower
off
upper
lower
off
off

from there I set up a few strength movements (heavy weight, low reps, larger rest intervals) to start out the workouts and then imediatly after that I would do the density work of about 5-6 exercises, 5 sets x 5-8 reps, lower intensity to make sure that I could hit the same weight for all 5 sets AND I would decrease the rest intverals by 5sec each week (so, week 1- 30sec, week2- 25 sec, and so on).

the way I split up my movements was like this:

day1- lower
strength- squatting movements
density work- total lower body

day2- upper
strength- upper horzontal movements (bench and row for example)
density work- total upper body


day3- lower
strength- lower body pulling movements (deadlifts)
density work- total lower body

day4- upper body
strength- upper body vertical movements (overhead press and pull ups for example)
density work- total upper body


It was pretty friggin' brutal and i saw some great gains in both size and strength as well as my conditioning level went through the roof!

Anyway, I think you can kind of get the idea from that. If you want an example of what a workout may look like I could whip something up for ya.

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Bakerboy

You could do a powerlifting type program based around squats, deadlifts, overhead presses and rows, with between 3-5 main movements.

P-funk will say Bill Starr.

P-funk

I love the Bill Starr routine mainly because it is flexible and there are a ton of things you can do with it.

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P-funk

I should add that the density work is not supposed to be breathing sets either. they are straight sets...the second you pause, just set down the bar, rest your 20sec or whatever and go again, trying to hit the same number of repetitions.

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"In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few."
-Buddha's Little Instruction Book

Duncans Donuts

Actually that sounds pretty interesting. How long were you in the gym on that? Is the 5 set a standard or is there flexibility? I defitently want an example workout.

"in the howling bleeding nights, the dogs plunge into the Volga and swim desperately to gain the other bank. The nights of Stalingrad are a terror for them. Animals flee this hell; the hardest stones cannot bear it for long; only men endure."

P-funk

workouts were super short! I mean, the only real resting I was doing was on the strength movements (I will give an example below).

I don't know why I picked 5 sets to tell you the truth. I guess, I figure that the load is light enough (light enough to work on straight sets iwth no rest pause and light enough to complete all reps on such short and shorter rest intervals) that I wanted to get a certain amount of stress. You can change it. Basically, it is just a skeleton to work from. You can do other things.

here would be an example:

Lower body:

strength movements:

back squat (day 2 switch to deadlift from the floor or rack pull)
3 sets x 5 reps
RDL (day 2 switch to leg press)
3x5

density work- 5 sets x 5-8 reps (on day 2 do the same exercises but take the weight you were using on day 1 and drop it 20%....kind of like active rest so you don't overtrain the legs)
RI= wk1- 30sec, wk2- 25, wk3- 20, wk4- 15, wk5- 10

front squat
lying leg curl
leg extensions
hypers or glute ham raise
standing calf raises
seated calf raises

upper body
bench press (switch to overhead BB press on day 2)
3 sets x 5 reps
One arm Db row (switch to chin up on day 2)
3 sets x 5 reps

density work 5 sets x 5-8 reps
RI= wk1- 30sec, wk2- 25, wk3- 20, wk4- 15, wk5- 10
DB bench press (switch to incline DB press on day 2)
seated cable row (switch to overhand grip pull down on day 2)
low incline DB fly (switch to lateral raise on day 2)
reverse peck deck (switch to pullover on day 2)
barbell curl (switch to DB hammer curl on day 2)
skull crusher (switch to tricep pressdown on day 2)



That is just a basic outline of something you could do. You can certainly tweak it anyway that you want.

the main thing is to keep the same exercises and working weight on the desnity stuff through out the 5 weeks. So, you want to try and do the same amount of work (ie, 100lb DBs for bench press on 30sec rest) on less and less rest each week. The main exercises, you can change after 2-3 weeks if you want to. I don't like to swap my exercises out that much but some people do. Another thing you might want to do is vary the rep range from week to week on the main strength exercises....maybe, 5 reps one week, 3 reps the next, singles after that or raise it up to 8 reps and then drop down to 5 the week after that etc....lots of options.

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shiznit2169

P-funk, i am not sure if this routine is exactly or similar to what you're talking about but i will post it anyways.

DD, i gave this routine a try and it sure did kick my ass too. I saw some big gains in size and strength so feel free to look it over and make any necessary changes you want.

Note - This was a template p-funk designed for me to look at but i made a few changes to fit my needs

day 1- Upper

main lifts week 1,2 and 3:

Bench press-
week 1- 5x5- RI= 60-90sec- tempo= 1/3/1
week 2- 8x4- RI= 60-90sec- tempo= 1/3/1
week 3- 6x4- RI= 60-90sec- tempo= 1/3/1

seated cable row
week 1- 5x5- RI= 60-90sec- tempo= 1/3/1
week 2- 8x4- RI= 60-90sec- tempo= 1/3/1
week 3- 6x4- RI= 60-90sec- tempo= 1/3/1

main lifts weeks 4 and 5:

Low incline DB bench press
week 4- 10x3- RI= 60-90sec- tempo= 3/2/1
week 5- 12x4- RI= 60-90sec- tempo= 3/2/1

Bent over BB row
week 4- 10x3- RI= 60-90sec- tempo= 3/2/1
week 5- 12x4- RI= 60-90sec- tempo= 3/2/1


density work- first the rules....you are to perform 5 sets. You are to perform 5-8 reps per set. Lower the weight if you need to make that rep range. these are not rest pause reps or anythign like that. they are straight reps with a controled tempo. the second you puase the set is over. rest and do another one. keep the rep speed constant. Rest interval decreases by 5sec per week. this is performed after your main lifts. the intensity of the weight should be enough that you can use the same weight for all 5 sets. like i said, if it is getting heavy, form is suffering, rep quality is suffereing and you aren't getting at minimum 5 reps then drop the weight like you would a drop set. The goal is to use the same amount of weight each week and improve your density. So, if you are using 45lb DBs for your shoulder press for 5-8 reps x 5 sets at 30sec rest on week 1. Try and use the same weight for every week and get the same amount of reps with less rest. g et my point? the weight stays constant through out....unless you are getting crushed and not hitting reps.


weeks 1-5 density work
5-8 reps x 5 sets
RI=
week 1- 30sec
week 2- 25sec
week 3- 20sec
week 4- 15sec
week 5- 10sec

DB shoulder press
WG pull down
DB front raise
cable pressdown
DB hammer curl



Day 2- legs
Main lifts week 1,2 and 3:

Squat
week 1- 5x5- RI= 60-90sec- tempo= 1/6/1
week 2- 8x4- RI= 60-90sec- tempo= 1/6/1
week 3- 6x4- RI= 60-90sec- tempo= 1/6/1

SLDL
week 1- 5x5- RI= 60-90sec- tempo= 1/6/1
week 2- 8x4- RI= 60-90sec- tempo= 1/6/1
week 3- 6x4- RI= 60-90sec- tempo= 1/6/1

seated calf raise
week 1- 5x5- RI= 60-90sec- tempo= 1/6/1
week 2- 8x4- RI= 60-90sec- tempo= 1/6/1
week 3- 6x4- RI= 60-90sec- tempo= 1/6/1

Main lifts week 4 and 5:
Leg press
week 4- 10x3- RI= 60-90sec- tempo= 3/2/1
week 5- 12x4- RI= 60-90sec- tempo= 3/2/1

deadlift (from the floor)
week 4- 10x3- RI= 60-90sec- tempo= 3/2/1
week 5- 12x4- RI= 60-90sec- tempo= 3/2/1

45 degree calf raise
week 4- 10x3- RI= 60-90sec- tempo= 3/2/1
week 5- 12x4- RI= 60-90sec- tempo= 3/2/1


density work week 1-5
5-8 reps x 5 sets
RI=
week 1- 30sec
week 2- 25sec
week 3- 20sec
week 4- 15sec
week 5- 10sec


front squat
leg curl
calf raise


day 3 upper
main lifts weeks 1,2 and 3

BB shoulder press (standing)
week 1- 5x5- RI= 60-90sec- tempo= 1/0/1
week 2- 8x4- RI= 60-90sec- tempo= 1/0/1
week 3- 6x4- RI= 60-90sec- tempo= 1/0/1

BB curl
week 1- 5x5- RI= 60-90sec- tempo= 3/2/1
week 2- 8x4- RI= 60-90sec- tempo= 3/2/1
week 3- 6x4- RI= 60-90sec- tempo= 3/2/1

skull crushers
week 1- 5x5- RI= 60-90sec- tempo= 3/2/1
week 2- 8x4- RI= 60-90sec- tempo= 3/2/1
week 3- 6x4- RI= 60-90sec- tempo= 3/2/1

BB shrug
week 1- 5x5- RI= 60-90sec- tempo= 1/0/1
week 2- 8x4- RI= 60-90sec- tempo= 1/0/1
week 3- 6x4- RI= 60-90sec- tempo= 1/0/1

mail lifts week 4 and 5
Db shoulder press
week 4- 10x3- RI= 60-90sec- tempo= 3/2/1
week 5- 12x4- RI= 60-90sec- tempo= 3/2/1

preacher curl
week 4- 10x3- RI= 60-90sec- tempo= 3/2/1
week 5- 12x4- RI= 60-90sec- tempo= 3/2/1

pressdowns
week 4- 10x3- RI= 60-90sec- tempo= 3/2/1
week 5- 12x4- RI= 60-90sec- tempo= 3/2/1

DB shrugs
week 4- 10x3- RI= 60-90sec- tempo= 3/2/1
week 5- 12x4- RI= 60-90sec- tempo= 3/2/1


density work week 1-5
5-8 reps x 5 sets
RI=
week 1- 30sec
week 2- 25sec
week 3- 20sec
week 4- 15sec
week 5- 10sec

DB bench press
pull up
upright row
lateral raise
pull over



day 4- lower body

Okay, for this it is more like active rest. Take the exact same exercises for your main lifts and perform them for the same rep ranges but just lower the weight by about 80% and perform them. The density stuff is different on this day though:

Main lifts week 1,2 and 3:

Squat
week 1- 5x5- RI= 60-90sec- tempo= 1/6/1
week 2- 8x4- RI= 60-90sec- tempo= 1/6/1
week 3- 6x4- RI= 60-90sec- tempo= 1/6/1

SLDL
week 1- 5x5- RI= 60-90sec- tempo= 1/6/1
week 2- 8x4- RI= 60-90sec- tempo= 1/6/1
week 3- 6x4- RI= 60-90sec- tempo= 1/6/1

seated calf raise
week 1- 5x5- RI= 60-90sec- tempo= 1/6/1
week 2- 8x4- RI= 60-90sec- tempo= 1/6/1
week 3- 6x4- RI= 60-90sec- tempo= 1/6/1

Main lifts week 4 and 5:
Leg press
week 4- 10x3- RI= 60-90sec- tempo= 3/2/1
week 5- 12x4- RI= 60-90sec- tempo= 3/2/1

deadlift (from the floor)
week 4- 10x3- RI= 60-90sec- tempo= 3/2/1
week 5- 12x4- RI= 60-90sec- tempo= 3/2/1

45 degree calf raise
week 4- 10x3- RI= 60-90sec- tempo= 3/2/1
week 5- 12x4- RI= 60-90sec- tempo= 3/2/1


density work week 1-5
5-8 reps x 5 sets
RI=
week 1- 30sec
week 2- 25sec
week 3- 20sec
week 4- 15sec
week 5- 10sec


sumo deadlift
leg ext.
calf raise

Duncans Donuts

Thanks a lot, both of you. I'll look over it a little later, go over any changes that might fit my profile better, and let you guys pick apart the routine. Very interesting!

"in the howling bleeding nights, the dogs plunge into the Volga and swim desperately to gain the other bank. The nights of Stalingrad are a terror for them. Animals flee this hell; the hardest stones cannot bear it for long; only men endure."

P-funk

yea, similiar thing.

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"In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few."
-Buddha's Little Instruction Book

CowPimp

I've never done the whole density training thing. That sounds like a cool way to get a lot of volume in a short time though.

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