Bulking and Cardio

shiznit2169 · 05-27-2006, 10:05 AM

I have been lifting for about a year and two months now and i have always been bulking. When i first started, i was 145 pounds with 9-10% BF. I just lifted hard and ate like crazy. I am currently 185 pounds and have about 12-13% BF. As far as my diet goes, i have for the most part eaten clean but every so often i will eat pizza or big sub sandwiches to make up for the calories. In the beginning, i did not have a problem with anything because i was new to lifting and i was growing at a rapid pace since my metabolism was still extremely high.

Now, my body is starting to develop into a "powerlifters" body. I am starting to get a little belly (im not worried about it though) and it seems like my metabolism is starting to slow down a little bit, but still faster than the average person. I'd hate to say this, but i have only done cardio like 2 or 3 times since i started lifting. I was always strictly lifting weights and often used short RI's in my routine to get somewhat of a cardio workout too.

My question to you guys is should i start doing some cardio? I am still bulking but im afraid my belly fat will continue to get fatter. I want to do something that will keep it down. Should i incorporate cardio into my routine .. maybe 2 times a week? What kind of cardio should it be? Sprints? Moderate cardio on the treadmill? HIIT?

What do you think?

**CowPimp** · 05-27-2006, 11:12 AM

I think a session of HIIT cardio/sprints and possibly a session of circuit training with low intensity weights or a 30 minute aerobic session would be fine. Those circuit sessions I do really seem to help me stay lean even if I cheat pretty good on my diet. If I remember correctly, you are training legs a couple days each week, so I would probably not do more than one sprint/HIIT session in a week.

fUnc17 · 05-27-2006, 11:26 AM

I agree with cp. The circuits P has me doing really test you cardiovascularly, and help get your heart rate up there. I'd try some circuits and do what cp said in regards to cardio.

MyK · 05-27-2006, 11:47 AM

diet diet diet!

shiznit2169 · 05-27-2006, 01:16 PM

If you don't mind, could you guys provide some examples of circuit training routines you do?

Func, i know you use kettleballs a lot in your circuit training but my gym does not have kettleballs so i will be unable to use them.

shiznit2169 · 05-27-2006, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MyK

diet diet diet!

Of course i know it's all about the diet, but when you are bulking, you're gonna expect some body fat which is perfectly fine to me but i was just wondering if i should be doing cardio as well just to keep it off while adding muscle.

shiznit2169 · 05-27-2006, 01:34 PM

Quote:

I think a session of HIIT cardio/sprints and possibly a session of circuit training with low intensity weights or a 30 minute aerobic session would be fine

Let me get this straight, HIIT cardio/sprints is when you do like 2 mins at a moderate pace, then 1 minute all out, 2 mins moderate, 1 minute all out for like 15-20 minutes right?

Also, when you say low intensity, do you mean long Rest Intervals and fewer sets? I forget the difference between intensity and frequency.

**CowPimp** · 05-27-2006, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shiznit2169

If you don't mind, could you guys provide some examples of circuit training routines you do?

Func, i know you use kettleballs a lot in your circuit training but my gym does not have kettleballs so i will be unable to use them.

That's not needed at all. Here's an example of some circuit I might do:

Renegade Rows x 30s
Front Box Jumps x 30s
Hindu Pushups x 30s
Lateral Box Jumps x 30s

Rest

Burpee Pushup to Chinup/Pullup x 60s
Jump rope x 60s

Rest

Turkish Getups x 60s
Landmines x 60

Rest

Medicine Ball Chest Pass & Sprint Retrieve x 30s
Jump rope x 30s
Medicine Ball Reverse Toss & Sprint Retreive x 30s
Jump rope x 30s

Rest

Power Cleans x 6
Front Squats x 6
Push Press x 6
Back Squats x 6
Romanian Deadlifts x 6
Bent Rows x 6

Rest

Body Squats x 15
Pushups x 15
Body Rows x 10
Reverse Hypers x 15
Dips x 10
Chinups x 5
Burpees x 10

Rest

Sprint until you drop

Something like that. I have worked up to this though. My rest periods are about 40s right now. I have been letting them chill there for a little bit because I don't think I need to drop any more, though I might goto 30s at some point if I need more of a challenge. I also didn't include weights that I use, but you'll find what works for you. Here's a cool article you might find interesting:

http://www.alwyncosgrove.com/MetabolicPower.html

That's the article I got the idea for one of those complexes from. I just realized his is a lot more brutal though, heh.

Here's an article on interval training from the same guy:

http://www.alwyncosgrove.com/Energy-...-Training.html

Hopefully you get some ideas here!

Seanp156 · 05-27-2006, 02:06 PM

After going through my last winter's bulk, which I didn't do much if any cardio during that time, I've deciding I'm going to do cardio twice a week whenever I bulk. I just think it's worthwhile for overall health even if you're not trying to lose weight.

If you're feeling like you're not lean enough right now, you could just do a short cut for about 8 weeks... That's what I did, and I feel better for having done it. If nothing else, it gave me the confidence to know I have the self control to lose fat and weight, as opposed to just gaining weight all the time.

Plus, about the gut thing or whatever, I kinda feel like that throughout the day, but it's just because I'm bloated with so much food and water... When I wake up first thing in the morning, it's fine.

shiznit2169 · 05-27-2006, 02:31 PM

Thanks Pimp, the articles were definitely helpful

Quote:

After going through my last winter's bulk, which I didn't do much if any cardio during that time, I've deciding I'm going to do cardio twice a week whenever I bulk. I just think it's worthwhile for overall health even if you're not trying to lose weight.

If you're feeling like you're not lean enough right now, you could just do a short cut for about 8 weeks... That's what I did, and I feel better for having done it. If nothing else, it gave me the confidence to know I have the self control to lose fat and weight, as opposed to just gaining weight all the time.

Plus, about the gut thing or whatever, I kinda feel like that throughout the day, but it's just because I'm bloated with so much food and water... When I wake up first thing in the morning, it's fine.

I agree sean, my bellyfat feels biggest after i eat a meal or by night time. When i wake up in the morning, it looks fine. However, i know i can be leaner than that.

Here are some pics i just took so u guys can take a look at it and tell me what u think

**P-funk** · 05-27-2006, 02:33 PM

uuuummmmm.....there isn't really much fat there at all.

shiznit2169 · 05-27-2006, 02:45 PM

Alright, ill admit i tucked in my stomach a little bit so maybe these will be more clear

I know it's not what you consider FAT .. but it's still fat because most lean guys have flat stomach's with abdominals showing

**P-funk** · 05-27-2006, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shiznit2169

Alright, ill admit i tucked in my stomach a little bit so maybe these will be more clear

I know it's not what you consider FAT .. but it's still fat because most lean guys have flat stomach's with abdominals showing

still not terrible.

shiznit2169 · 05-27-2006, 02:49 PM

I agree funk, i'm probably just being a little paranoid since the first 8-10 months of training i was just growing and never had stomach fat up until about 1-2 months ago when i started to see it. Just curious if i should be doing cardio now to keep it off and for overall health.

**P-funk** · 05-27-2006, 02:52 PM

cardio for overal health is always a great idea. i would try and work some in.

shiznit2169 · 05-27-2006, 02:53 PM

Instead of posting a new thread, i'm just going to post my routine for the summer starting week after my break.

Week 1

Monday - Upper

Bench Press - 4x6
BB Bent-Over Rows - 4x6
Dips - 3x10
Pulldowns - 3x10

Tuesday - Lower

Squats - 4x6
SLDL's - 4x6
Lunges - 3x10
Glute Ham Raises - 3x10

Thursday - Upper

OH Press - 4x6
Pullups - 4x6
Incline/Decline Press - 3x10
Seated Rows - 3x10

Friday - Lower

Deadlifts - 4x6
Front Squat - 4x6
Step-ups - 3x10
Crunches/Leg Raises - 3x10

Accessory work - Arm work, Calf work, extra sets for lagging parts
Rest Intervals - 60-120 seconds

Week 2

Monday - Upper

Bench Press - 3x10
BB Bent-Over Rows - 3x10
Dips - 4x6
Pulldowns - 4x6

Tuesday - Lower

Squats - 3x10
SLDL's - 3x10
Lunges - 4x6
Glute Ham Raises - 4x6

Thursday - Upper

OH Press - 3x10
Pullups - 3x10
Incline/Decline Press - 4x6
Seated Rows - 4x6

Friday - Lower

Deadlifts - 3x10
Front Squat - 3x10
Step-ups - 4x6
Crunches/Leg Raises - 4x6

Accessory work - Arm work, Calf work, extra sets for lagging parts
Rest Intervals - 60-120 seconds

This is just the template for the first two weeks. Feel free to give feedback.

I also plan to incorporate cardio .. possibly HIIT or sprints 2 times a week but im not sure if i should do it on my off days, after weight training, and if i should do it in the morning on an empty stomach or not.

**P-funk** · 05-27-2006, 02:56 PM

If i am training legs 2x's a week like this, I would shy away from the HIIT sprints. They are just going to increase the amount of leg work and take away from recovery from heavy workouts or higher volume workouts that you can do when you are bulking and taking in more calories. I might go with some steady state cardio on one of the upper days at the end of the workout and then another session of steady state on a sat. Full rest on sunday and wed. Once you start dieting, you can transition one of those cardio days into HIIT sprints.

shiznit2169 · 05-27-2006, 03:02 PM

Alright thanks funk. By steady state cardio, do you mean like a moderate pace of cardio with level 5-7 intensity (on a scale of 1-10 with 10 being the hardest) for roughly 25-30 minutes?

mike456 · 05-27-2006, 03:02 PM

i would cut out 1 of the training days(one week cut out an upper day and than next week cut out 1 of the lower days), and put the cardio in place of it and then do 1 more day of cardio on another off day, but the routine looks great

so you would have 3 lifting days
2 cardio days
and 2 days completely off a week.

**P-funk** · 05-27-2006, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike456

i would cut out 1 of the training days(one week cut out an upper day and than next week cut out 1 of the lower days), and put the cardio in place of it and then do 1 more day of cardio on another off day, but the routine looks great

so you would have 3 lifting days
2 cardio days
and 2 days completely off a week.

why?

**P-funk** · 05-27-2006, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shiznit2169

Alright thanks funk. By steady state cardio, do you mean like a moderate pace of cardio with level 5-7 intensity (on a scale of 1-10 with 10 being the hardest) for roughly 25-30 minutes?

you got it.

**CowPimp** · 05-27-2006, 06:37 PM

I think your plan looks good, except for a few things. One, you should do your heavier lifting earlier in the workout. When you switch the paramters in week 2, you should also switch the order in which you perform those lifts. Two, I think you should do HIIT cardio one time each week at the very most. If you were doing a split routine, then I could see doing a couple of HIIT sessions, but at some point you are going to impede the recovery of your legs. If you really want to do an HIIT session I would setup your split like this:

Monday - Lower
Tuesday - Upper
Wednesday - HIIT
Thursday - Off or Jogging 25-30 minutes
Friday - Lower
Saturday - Upper
Sunday - Off or Jogging 25-30 minutes

You could also do your steady state cardio on the days you work your upper body. If you really want to have your weekends off, then I would just stick to some steady state cardio like P is suggesting. Make sure you give yourself one day off each week to rest.

shiznit2169 · 05-27-2006, 08:48 PM

I like your suggestions pimp, but i wont be able to lift/run on saturday because the gym closes at 6pm on the weekends and i work all day on saturday so it has to be my off day. As far as HIIT goes, i think im going to hold that off and give steady cardio once a week a try for two reasons.

a) My body isn't used to cardio and i want to take it slow at first since i havent done it in ages
b) I will watch my LBM and bodyfat % closely and see how it goes for the first 2 weeks.

If there are no changes, i will increase cardio to 2 times a week at a moderate pace and then try your suggestion if nothing improves. So, this is how i will do it.

Sunday - lower
Monday - upper
Tuesday - steady cardio 20-30 mins
Wednesday - off
Thursday - lower
Friday - upper
Saturday - off

**CowPimp** · 05-27-2006, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shiznit2169

I like your suggestions pimp, but i wont be able to lift/run on saturday because the gym closes at 6pm on the weekends and i work all day on saturday so it has to be my off day. As far as HIIT goes, i think im going to hold that off and give steady cardio once a week a try for two reasons.

a) My body isn't used to cardio and i want to take it slow at first since i havent done it in ages
b) I will watch my LBM and bodyfat % closely and see how it goes for the first 2 weeks.

If there are no changes, i will increase cardio to 2 times a week at a moderate pace and then try your suggestion if nothing improves. So, this is how i will do it.

Sunday - lower
Monday - upper
Tuesday - steady cardio 20-30 mins
Wednesday - off
Thursday - lower
Friday - upper
Saturday - off

Ah, I understand. That seems like a reasonable plan to me.

seank02 · 05-28-2006, 05:02 PM

shiznit could i ask what your eating thats healthy to keep the calories up? I am bulking as well and cant come up with enough calories by eating healthy foods, im starting to think a couple triple woppers (1230 cals.) a day would help but thats not healthy, believe it or not lol. But would u be able to share what your eating and how many cals a day?

Thanks and sorry man i dont mean to change the subject.

05-27-2006, 10:05 AM	#1
shiznit2169 flawless Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 4,076 Photos: 1	Bulking and Cardio I have been lifting for about a year and two months now and i have always been bulking. When i first started, i was 145 pounds with 9-10% BF. I just lifted hard and ate like crazy. I am currently 185 pounds and have about 12-13% BF. As far as my diet goes, i have for the most part eaten clean but every so often i will eat pizza or big sub sandwiches to make up for the calories. In the beginning, i did not have a problem with anything because i was new to lifting and i was growing at a rapid pace since my metabolism was still extremely high. Now, my body is starting to develop into a "powerlifters" body. I am starting to get a little belly (im not worried about it though) and it seems like my metabolism is starting to slow down a little bit, but still faster than the average person. I'd hate to say this, but i have only done cardio like 2 or 3 times since i started lifting. I was always strictly lifting weights and often used short RI's in my routine to get somewhat of a cardio workout too. My question to you guys is should i start doing some cardio? I am still bulking but im afraid my belly fat will continue to get fatter. I want to do something that will keep it down. Should i incorporate cardio into my routine .. maybe 2 times a week? What kind of cardio should it be? Sprints? Moderate cardio on the treadmill? HIIT? What do you think?
	My Journal

05-27-2006, 11:12 AM	#2
CowPimp Fueled by Testosterone Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 15,405	I think a session of HIIT cardio/sprints and possibly a session of circuit training with low intensity weights or a 30 minute aerobic session would be fine. Those circuit sessions I do really seem to help me stay lean even if I cheat pretty good on my diet. If I remember correctly, you are training legs a couple days each week, so I would probably not do more than one sprint/HIIT session in a week.
	The only time it's bad to feel the burn is when you're peeing... CowPimp Picks Up Heavy Shit MySpace YouTube Videos

05-27-2006, 11:26 AM	#3
fUnc17 Drop and give me 100 Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Jersey Shore BJJ Posts: 1,869 Photos: 12	I agree with cp. The circuits P has me doing really test you cardiovascularly, and help get your heart rate up there. I'd try some circuits and do what cp said in regards to cardio.
	Athletic Strength & Movement blog Strength Edge

05-27-2006, 01:16 PM	#5
shiznit2169 flawless Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 4,076 Photos: 1	If you don't mind, could you guys provide some examples of circuit training routines you do? Func, i know you use kettleballs a lot in your circuit training but my gym does not have kettleballs so i will be unable to use them.
	My Journal

05-27-2006, 02:06 PM	#9
Seanp156 Myostatin Whore Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 6,239 Photos: 11	After going through my last winter's bulk, which I didn't do much if any cardio during that time, I've deciding I'm going to do cardio twice a week whenever I bulk. I just think it's worthwhile for overall health even if you're not trying to lose weight. If you're feeling like you're not lean enough right now, you could just do a short cut for about 8 weeks... That's what I did, and I feel better for having done it. If nothing else, it gave me the confidence to know I have the self control to lose fat and weight, as opposed to just gaining weight all the time. Plus, about the gut thing or whatever, I kinda feel like that throughout the day, but it's just because I'm bloated with so much food and water... When I wake up first thing in the morning, it's fine.
	My Journal

05-27-2006, 11:47 AM	#4
MyK Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: consumerville! Posts: 10,201 Photos: 1	diet diet diet!

05-27-2006, 02:33 PM	#11
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,442	uuuummmmm.....there isn't really much fat there at all.
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! http://ivonneberkowitz.blogspot.com/....check out Ivonne's new blog! Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

05-27-2006, 02:49 PM	#14
shiznit2169 flawless Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 4,076 Photos: 1	I agree funk, i'm probably just being a little paranoid since the first 8-10 months of training i was just growing and never had stomach fat up until about 1-2 months ago when i started to see it. Just curious if i should be doing cardio now to keep it off and for overall health.
	My Journal

05-27-2006, 02:52 PM	#15
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,442	cardio for overal health is always a great idea. i would try and work some in.
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! http://ivonneberkowitz.blogspot.com/....check out Ivonne's new blog! Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

05-27-2006, 02:53 PM	#16
shiznit2169 flawless Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 4,076 Photos: 1	Instead of posting a new thread, i'm just going to post my routine for the summer starting week after my break. Week 1 Monday - Upper Bench Press - 4x6 BB Bent-Over Rows - 4x6 Dips - 3x10 Pulldowns - 3x10 Tuesday - Lower Squats - 4x6 SLDL's - 4x6 Lunges - 3x10 Glute Ham Raises - 3x10 Thursday - Upper OH Press - 4x6 Pullups - 4x6 Incline/Decline Press - 3x10 Seated Rows - 3x10 Friday - Lower Deadlifts - 4x6 Front Squat - 4x6 Step-ups - 3x10 Crunches/Leg Raises - 3x10 Accessory work - Arm work, Calf work, extra sets for lagging parts Rest Intervals - 60-120 seconds Week 2 Monday - Upper Bench Press - 3x10 BB Bent-Over Rows - 3x10 Dips - 4x6 Pulldowns - 4x6 Tuesday - Lower Squats - 3x10 SLDL's - 3x10 Lunges - 4x6 Glute Ham Raises - 4x6 Thursday - Upper OH Press - 3x10 Pullups - 3x10 Incline/Decline Press - 4x6 Seated Rows - 4x6 Friday - Lower Deadlifts - 3x10 Front Squat - 3x10 Step-ups - 4x6 Crunches/Leg Raises - 4x6 Accessory work - Arm work, Calf work, extra sets for lagging parts Rest Intervals - 60-120 seconds This is just the template for the first two weeks. Feel free to give feedback. I also plan to incorporate cardio .. possibly HIIT or sprints 2 times a week but im not sure if i should do it on my off days, after weight training, and if i should do it in the morning on an empty stomach or not.
	My Journal

05-27-2006, 02:56 PM	#17
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,442	If i am training legs 2x's a week like this, I would shy away from the HIIT sprints. They are just going to increase the amount of leg work and take away from recovery from heavy workouts or higher volume workouts that you can do when you are bulking and taking in more calories. I might go with some steady state cardio on one of the upper days at the end of the workout and then another session of steady state on a sat. Full rest on sunday and wed. Once you start dieting, you can transition one of those cardio days into HIIT sprints.
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! http://ivonneberkowitz.blogspot.com/....check out Ivonne's new blog! Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

05-27-2006, 03:02 PM	#18
shiznit2169 flawless Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 4,076 Photos: 1	Alright thanks funk. By steady state cardio, do you mean like a moderate pace of cardio with level 5-7 intensity (on a scale of 1-10 with 10 being the hardest) for roughly 25-30 minutes?
	My Journal

05-27-2006, 03:02 PM	#19
mike456 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,285	i would cut out 1 of the training days(one week cut out an upper day and than next week cut out 1 of the lower days), and put the cardio in place of it and then do 1 more day of cardio on another off day, but the routine looks great so you would have 3 lifting days 2 cardio days and 2 days completely off a week.
mike456 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,285

05-27-2006, 06:37 PM	#22
CowPimp Fueled by Testosterone Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 15,405	I think your plan looks good, except for a few things. One, you should do your heavier lifting earlier in the workout. When you switch the paramters in week 2, you should also switch the order in which you perform those lifts. Two, I think you should do HIIT cardio one time each week at the very most. If you were doing a split routine, then I could see doing a couple of HIIT sessions, but at some point you are going to impede the recovery of your legs. If you really want to do an HIIT session I would setup your split like this: Monday - Lower Tuesday - Upper Wednesday - HIIT Thursday - Off or Jogging 25-30 minutes Friday - Lower Saturday - Upper Sunday - Off or Jogging 25-30 minutes You could also do your steady state cardio on the days you work your upper body. If you really want to have your weekends off, then I would just stick to some steady state cardio like P is suggesting. Make sure you give yourself one day off each week to rest.
	The only time it's bad to feel the burn is when you're peeing... CowPimp Picks Up Heavy Shit MySpace YouTube Videos

05-27-2006, 08:48 PM	#23
shiznit2169 flawless Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 4,076 Photos: 1	I like your suggestions pimp, but i wont be able to lift/run on saturday because the gym closes at 6pm on the weekends and i work all day on saturday so it has to be my off day. As far as HIIT goes, i think im going to hold that off and give steady cardio once a week a try for two reasons. a) My body isn't used to cardio and i want to take it slow at first since i havent done it in ages b) I will watch my LBM and bodyfat % closely and see how it goes for the first 2 weeks. If there are no changes, i will increase cardio to 2 times a week at a moderate pace and then try your suggestion if nothing improves. So, this is how i will do it. Sunday - lower Monday - upper Tuesday - steady cardio 20-30 mins Wednesday - off Thursday - lower Friday - upper Saturday - off
	My Journal

05-28-2006, 05:02 PM	#25
seank02 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 58	shiznit could i ask what your eating thats healthy to keep the calories up? I am bulking as well and cant come up with enough calories by eating healthy foods, im starting to think a couple triple woppers (1230 cals.) a day would help but thats not healthy, believe it or not lol. But would u be able to share what your eating and how many cals a day? Thanks and sorry man i dont mean to change the subject.
seank02 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 58

05-28-2006, 05:43 PM	#26
Seanp156 Myostatin Whore Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 6,239 Photos: 11