will squats improve bench?

scottyshotty · 06-19-2006, 08:38 PM

I know increasing any body part will help, but do you think more squats will significantly make a difference in bench weight?

TJ Cline · 06-19-2006, 09:29 PM

Yes, squats and dead lifts are essintial if you want a good bench press

chronicelite · 06-19-2006, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

Yes, squats and dead lifts are essintial if you want a good bench press

Shows what I know

**CowPimp** · 06-19-2006, 10:52 PM

They can help for a few reasons. The biggest reason, in my opinion, is that they build up your posterior chain, including the upper back. A strong upper back makes for improved bar path and control during the bench press, and it also makes for a stronger reverse when changing from eccentric to concentric. The posterior chain strengthening enhances leg drive, which is subsequently transferred more efficiently when you have a stronger upper back. You upper back is used in an isometric fashion in both the squat and deadlift, so a pretty decent transmutation of training effects occurs here.

GoLdeN M 07 · 06-20-2006, 04:05 PM

hey cowpimp, ur a smart man so i was wondering , which muscle is the best used to bench heavy: chest, triceps, front delts, or the upper back.

scottyshotty · 06-20-2006, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoLdeN M 07

hey cowpimp, ur a smart man so i was wondering , which muscle is the best used to bench heavy: chest, triceps, front delts, or the upper back.

GOLDEN M-BENCHING HEAVY PRIMARILY WORKS THE CHEST. SECONDARY IS THE TRIS AND DELTS. BECAUSE YOUR TRIS AND DELTS ARE SMALLER MUSCLE GROUPS THEY WILL FATIGUE WAY BEFORE YOUR CHEST GIVES OUT IN BENCHING..UNLESS YOU USE THE EXHAUST PRINCIPLE OF COURSE, WHICH IS BLASTING YOUR CHEST WITH ISOLATION EXERCISES(EX.DUMBELL FLYS) BEFORE BENCHING SO YOUR CHEST WILL EXHAUST ABOUT THE SAME TIME AS ARMS AND DELTS. IF THAT IS YOUR ROUTINE, YOU ARE NOT WORKING OUT ENOUGH AND GETTING WAY TOO MUCH REST FOR THAT ROUTINE!IF THAT IS YOUR ROUTINE, I REALLY HOPE YOU CHOOSE TO DO DEADLIFTS

TJ Cline · 06-20-2006, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottyshotty

GOLDEN M-BENCHING HEAVY PRIMARILY WORKS THE CHEST. SECONDARY IS THE TRIS AND DELTS. BECAUSE YOUR TRIS AND DELTS ARE SMALLER MUSCLE GROUPS THE WILL FATIGUE WAY BEFORE YOUR CHEST GIVES OUT IN BENCHING..UNLESS YOU USE THE EXHAUST PRINCIPLE OF COURSE, WHICH IS BLASTING YOUR CHEST WITH ISOLATION EXERCISES(EX.DUMBELL FLYS) BEFORE BENCHING SO YOUR CHEST WILL EXHAUST ABOUT THE SAME TIME AS ARMS AND DELTS. IF THAT IS YOUR ROUTINE, YOU ARE NOT WORKING OUT ENOUGH AND GETTING WAY TOO MUCH REST FOR THAT ROUTINE!IF THAT IS YOUR ROUTINE, I REALLY HOPE YOU CHOOSE TO DO DEADLIFTS

I AGREE THAT HE SHOULD DO DEAD LIFTS.

camarosuper6 · 06-20-2006, 06:43 PM

lmao.

GoLdeN M 07 · 06-20-2006, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottyshotty

GOLDEN M-BENCHING HEAVY PRIMARILY WORKS THE CHEST. SECONDARY IS THE TRIS AND DELTS. BECAUSE YOUR TRIS AND DELTS ARE SMALLER MUSCLE GROUPS THEY WILL FATIGUE WAY BEFORE YOUR CHEST GIVES OUT IN BENCHING..UNLESS YOU USE THE EXHAUST PRINCIPLE OF COURSE, WHICH IS BLASTING YOUR CHEST WITH ISOLATION EXERCISES(EX.DUMBELL FLYS) BEFORE BENCHING SO YOUR CHEST WILL EXHAUST ABOUT THE SAME TIME AS ARMS AND DELTS. IF THAT IS YOUR ROUTINE, YOU ARE NOT WORKING OUT ENOUGH AND GETTING WAY TOO MUCH REST FOR THAT ROUTINE!IF THAT IS YOUR ROUTINE, I REALLY HOPE YOU CHOOSE TO DO DEADLIFTS

i know that it targets the chest!! But does ur chest have to be the strongest of all the muscles in ur upperbody to bench big.

**CowPimp** · 06-20-2006, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoLdeN M 07

i know that it targets the chest!! But does ur chest have to be the strongest of all the muscles in ur upperbody to bench big.

No. In fact, I think the triceps are more important to a strong bench press. They seem to be the weakest link in a lot of people's bench presses because the stretch reflex helps you past the portion of the bench press which uses your chest the most.

Scottyshotty's statements are totally off base.

JOHNYORK · 06-20-2006, 11:51 PM

someone told me doing legs increases testosterone? im guessing it cant be significant if it does????

Tough Old Man · 06-20-2006, 11:55 PM

I personally only believe they raise your bench due to increase Testosterone levels that Squats and Deadlifts raise. No other reason

JordanMang · 06-20-2006, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

No. In fact, I think the triceps are more important to a strong bench press. They seem to be the weakest link in a lot of people's bench presses because the stretch reflex helps you past the portion of the bench press which uses your chest the most.

Scottyshotty's statements are totally off base.

I agree. I concentrated heavily on my triceps in the past 3 months and my bench went up a ton. The inital drive my chest, legs, and shoulders gave me was enough to get the bar moving but my triceps couldn't finish the lift. I still think they're the wink link, but they've improved my bench a lot.

scottyshotty · 06-21-2006, 04:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

No. In fact, I think the triceps are more important to a strong bench press. They seem to be the weakest link in a lot of people's bench presses because the stretch reflex helps you past the portion of the bench press which uses your chest the most.

Scottyshotty's statements are totally off base.

No. In fact my statements are totally on base. Bench primarily works the chest and secondary is delts and tris. That is a fact. That was the info I was conveying and then giving an example of how to pre-exhaust the primary before hand to reach failure at the same time as the weaker secondary muscles. I never said chest was more important than tris. All 3 muscles groups are equally important to build to increase bench.(delts,tris,chest)You cant call one the most important, focus on it and neglect the others and expect to get gains. If you do dumbell press every day, which works all three muscles groups your bench will increase faster than if you did tricep extensions and rope pull downs everyday.

scottyshotty · 06-21-2006, 04:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JOHNYORK

someone told me doing legs increases testosterone? im guessing it cant be significant if it does????

Ive heard this too. From a friend who learned this in wrestling and all they work is legs. Thanks for staying on topic. Id like to know more about this.

**Gazhole** · 06-21-2006, 06:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottyshotty

If you do dumbell press every day, which works all three muscles groups your bench will increase faster than if you did tricep extensions and rope pull downs everyday.

Dumbell press every day? Hmm.

Ive actually found the opposite. Though i do neither DB press or tricep exercises every day.

Since ive started doing exercises like dips and push ups, my bench has jumped by about 20lbs in the last month. My chest has always been strong, and i agree it has a lot to to with the bench (obviously), but it IS a compound movement, so if you increase strength and size in all the muscles used for the movement separately as well as in the DB press itself, the outcome is going to be the potential for greater force.

Thats my take on it, through my own logic and through my experience of it.

But yes, training legs a lot will help with pretty much every exercise out there, bench included.

assassin · 06-21-2006, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

No. In fact, I think the triceps are more important to a strong bench press. They seem to be the weakest link in a lot of people's bench presses because the stretch reflex helps you past the portion of the bench press which uses your chest the most.

Scottyshotty's statements are totally off base.

yeah the triceps makes the weakest poin on chest exercises .... at least for me and for most ppl i've ever seen......what do u suggest cp as a solution for this problem ..?? i thought of doing presses with narrower grip .... do u think that'll be a good idea to force the tris to coompensate with the chest and shoulders ??

Action-Jackson · 06-21-2006, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by assassin

yeah the triceps makes the weakest poin on chest exercises .... at least for me and for most ppl i've ever seen......what do u suggest cp as a solution for this problem ..?? i thought of doing presses with narrower grip .... do u think that'll be a good idea to force the tris to coompensate with the chest and shoulders ??

Do some of these.

**CowPimp** · 06-21-2006, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottyshotty

No. In fact my statements are totally on base. Bench primarily works the chest and secondary is delts and tris. That is a fact. That was the info I was conveying and then giving an example of how to pre-exhaust the primary before hand to reach failure at the same time as the weaker secondary muscles. I never said chest was more important than tris. All 3 muscles groups are equally important to build to increase bench.(delts,tris,chest)You cant call one the most important, focus on it and neglect the others and expect to get gains. If you do dumbell press every day, which works all three muscles groups your bench will increase faster than if you did tricep extensions and rope pull downs everyday.

Obviously benching is going to improve your bench more than a collaboration of isolation exercises. Doing the actual activity leads to neural adaptations, which are extremely important when it comes to strength.

Now, to address my problem with your previous post:

Quote:

GOLDEN M-BENCHING HEAVY PRIMARILY WORKS THE CHEST. SECONDARY IS THE TRIS AND DELTS. BECAUSE YOUR TRIS AND DELTS ARE SMALLER MUSCLE GROUPS THEY WILL FATIGUE WAY BEFORE YOUR CHEST GIVES OUT IN BENCHING..UNLESS YOU USE THE EXHAUST PRINCIPLE OF COURSE, WHICH IS BLASTING YOUR CHEST WITH ISOLATION EXERCISES(EX.DUMBELL FLYS) BEFORE BENCHING SO YOUR CHEST WILL EXHAUST ABOUT THE SAME TIME AS ARMS AND DELTS. IF THAT IS YOUR ROUTINE, YOU ARE NOT WORKING OUT ENOUGH AND GETTING WAY TOO MUCH REST FOR THAT ROUTINE!IF THAT IS YOUR ROUTINE, I REALLY HOPE YOU CHOOSE TO DO DEADLIFTS

Okay, you're right about the muscle groups that are prime movers in the bench press. Where you're wrong is with your assumption that the delts and triceps will fatigue before your chest in the bench press. Size of a muscle doesn't necessarily make for a muscle with better endurance. This is largely going to come down to biomechanics and strength/size of the individual muscles involved (A stronger muscle means that an equivalent load will fatigue it less). When I said you were off base, that's what I meant.

scottyshotty · 06-21-2006, 04:12 PM

Thats cool. When I said dumbell press every day I was figuratively speaking, obviously. I was going by Arnolds bodybuilding encyclopedia where he said that if you walk into the gym and hop on the bench and crank em out, your last rep of failure will always be due to your arms and delts failing before your pecs are fully exhausted. Thats why he recommends for an advanced training method to isolate only and preexhaust the pecs first so when you hop on the bench you will be sure to fully 'destroy' the muscle fibers on your last rep. Just a method to shock the body..Thanks for the feedback!

**CowPimp** · 06-21-2006, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottyshotty

Thats cool. When I said dumbell press every day I was figuratively speaking, obviously. I was going by Arnolds bodybuilding encyclopedia where he said that if you walk into the gym and hop on the bench and crank em out, your last rep of failure will always be due to your arms and delts failing before your pecs are fully exhausted. Thats why he recommends for an advanced training method to isolate only and preexhaust the pecs first so when you hop on the bench you will be sure to fully 'destroy' the muscle fibers on your last rep. Just a method to shock the body..Thanks for the feedback!

Gotcha. It's great that you're reading, but don't take any exercise physiology advice from Arnold. Maybe that was the case with himself and his training partner or something, but not for all.

Also, pre-exhausting is a perfectly valid technique. For those who do experience the aforementioned problem it is an effective technique. Personally, I have never had to do any direct chest work to develop a decent chest. Mine's not amazing, but I feel it is in proportion to the rest of my body.

**P-funk** · 06-21-2006, 10:57 PM

you can press everyday if you account for volume. Pavel Tsastoline (sp?) wrote a great article about this in an old MILO journal. It was pretty cool. Let me see if I can dig it up online for ya.

**P-funk** · 06-21-2006, 11:00 PM

here it is.

**CowPimp** · 06-21-2006, 11:16 PM

Pretty cool article. Kind of makes me want to start squatting more, heh.

**P-funk** · 06-21-2006, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

Pretty cool article. Kind of makes me want to start squatting more, heh.

I squat three times a week in a lot of my programs.

it is all about the balance of intensity.

this is why the olympic lifters train just their lifts all the time. That is why I can do the lifts 3-4x's a week. It just about how you manage intnesity.

**CowPimp** · 06-21-2006, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

I squat three times a week in a lot of my programs.

it is all about the balance of intensity.

this is why the olympic lifters train just their lifts all the time. That is why I can do the lifts 3-4x's a week. It just about how you manage intnesity.

Yeah, true enough. I feel like my joints would never forgive me if I squatted 5 times a week for several months though.

In my full body programs I usually do some kind of squat or deadlift 3 times each week.

**P-funk** · 06-21-2006, 11:24 PM

Quote:

06-19-2006, 08:38 PM	#1
scottyshotty scottyshotty Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: us Posts: 32	will squats improve bench? I know increasing any body part will help, but do you think more squats will significantly make a difference in bench weight?

06-19-2006, 09:29 PM	#2
TJ Cline Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,544	Yes, squats and dead lifts are essintial if you want a good bench press
TJ Cline Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,544

06-19-2006, 10:52 PM	#4
CowPimp Fueled by Testosterone Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 15,428	They can help for a few reasons. The biggest reason, in my opinion, is that they build up your posterior chain, including the upper back. A strong upper back makes for improved bar path and control during the bench press, and it also makes for a stronger reverse when changing from eccentric to concentric. The posterior chain strengthening enhances leg drive, which is subsequently transferred more efficiently when you have a stronger upper back. You upper back is used in an isometric fashion in both the squat and deadlift, so a pretty decent transmutation of training effects occurs here.
	The only time it's bad to feel the burn is when you're peeing... CowPimp Picks Up Heavy Shit MySpace YouTube Videos

06-20-2006, 06:43 PM	#8
camarosuper6 Back Home In SOCAL Elite Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: California Posts: 3,350	lmao.
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06-20-2006, 11:51 PM	#11
JOHNYORK Registered User Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 716 Photos: 4	someone told me doing legs increases testosterone? im guessing it cant be significant if it does????
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06-20-2006, 04:05 PM	#5
GoLdeN M 07 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Mahwah, NJ Posts: 692	hey cowpimp, ur a smart man so i was wondering , which muscle is the best used to bench heavy: chest, triceps, front delts, or the upper back.

06-20-2006, 11:55 PM	#12
Tough Old Man Canine club CEO Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: baja calif, Mexico Posts: 6,933 Photos: 1	I personally only believe they raise your bench due to increase Testosterone levels that Squats and Deadlifts raise. No other reason

06-21-2006, 04:12 PM	#20
scottyshotty scottyshotty Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: us Posts: 32	Thats cool. When I said dumbell press every day I was figuratively speaking, obviously. I was going by Arnolds bodybuilding encyclopedia where he said that if you walk into the gym and hop on the bench and crank em out, your last rep of failure will always be due to your arms and delts failing before your pecs are fully exhausted. Thats why he recommends for an advanced training method to isolate only and preexhaust the pecs first so when you hop on the bench you will be sure to fully 'destroy' the muscle fibers on your last rep. Just a method to shock the body..Thanks for the feedback!

06-21-2006, 10:57 PM	#22
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,574	you can press everyday if you account for volume. Pavel Tsastoline (sp?) wrote a great article about this in an old MILO journal. It was pretty cool. Let me see if I can dig it up online for ya.
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! Ivonne's Blog on Health and Wellness! Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

06-21-2006, 11:00 PM	#23
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,574	here it is.
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! Ivonne's Blog on Health and Wellness! Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

06-21-2006, 11:16 PM	#24
CowPimp Fueled by Testosterone Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 15,428	Pretty cool article. Kind of makes me want to start squatting more, heh.
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06-21-2006, 11:24 PM	#27
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,574	Quote: