Upright Rows

mike456 · 06-19-2006, 10:48 PM

I have been hearing that they are bad for you, and one day I was doing them and felt some weird pain in my right tricep area, is this exercise safe if you do them with a wide grip(wider than shouler grip), the reason I ask is I hate all lateral delt/trap exercises and this exercise takes care of both of them...

**CowPimp** · 06-19-2006, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike456

I have been hearing that they are bad for you, and one day I was doing them and felt some weird pain in my right tricep area, is this exercise safe if you do them with a wide grip(wider than shouler grip), the reason I ask is I hate all lateral delt/trap exercises and this exercise takes care of both of them...

It's riskier than other exercises that could give you the same results, but if you don't have problems with it then do them. It's simply contraindicated for more people than a lot of exercises out there.

**P-funk** · 06-19-2006, 11:08 PM

internlly rotating the shoulder and performing abdution just sets up of for problems.

also, if you look at the movement it is abdtcion, extension (at the top) and external rotation (at the end of the movement)......that is a shit ton of work for the rotators in one exercise.

risk greater then reward IMO.

mike456 · 06-19-2006, 11:20 PM

so it doesn't make a difference if you do it with a wider grip?

**P-funk** · 06-19-2006, 11:33 PM

wide or short I still don't like the exercises. with the wide grip you get less (almost no) ext. rotation at the top of the movement and a little extension BUT, your shoulder is still placed in internal rotation and now you are increasing the amount of abduction you are getting and really jamming that humerous in there. no good IMO.

That is just my opinoin. It seems a lot of coaches, physicap therapists and orthopedists are on the same page with the exercise.

If it doesn't bother you then do it. I just think risk is greater then reward.

alexvega · 06-21-2006, 06:19 PM

IMO first you shoul increase your strength, with other exercise, and after do that exercise.
it was my experience, now i can do up rights rows heavy very heavy bro.

LexusGS · 06-21-2006, 07:28 PM

i hate these streight up and refuse do do them cus they feel like shit on my posterior delts.

Andy_Massaro · 06-22-2006, 01:38 AM

i always get a sharp pain in my shoulders after doing them.. i thought it was because my shoulders are just really weak but i guess not..

what are some alternative exercises ?

SJ69 · 06-22-2006, 08:10 AM

I like them, but I don't go heavy, usually between 8-12 reps. For some reason this is the only movement that really pumps up my traps. I get a better trap pump from these than from shrugs for some reason.

**P-funk** · 06-22-2006, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy_Massaro

i always get a sharp pain in my shoulders after doing them.. i thought it was because my shoulders are just really weak but i guess not..

what are some alternative exercises ?

scaption raises
lateral raises (if your shoulders can handle it)
pressing movements are ofcourse great for the anterior and middle deltoids

**CowPimp** · 06-22-2006, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

scaption raises
lateral raises (if your shoulders can handle it)
pressing movements are ofcourse great for the anterior and middle deltoids

What are scaption raises? Raises in the scapular plane?

**P-funk** · 06-22-2006, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

What are scaption raises? Raises in the scapular plane?

yup sinlge joint movement.

take the DBs, set up in the scapular plane (which is not quite to the front and not quite to the side but right in between, like were your pockets would be).

set your hands to a neutral, thumbs up grip (to allow for movement within the joint and preven impingment), and then perform the raises, up to parallel with the floor.

make sure to keep the shoulder blades down and retracted and don't let them hike up.

I'll try and find a picture.

**CowPimp** · 06-22-2006, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

yup sinlge joint movement.

take the DBs, set up in the scapular plane (which is not quite to the front and not quite to the side but right in between, like were your pockets would be).

set your hands to a neutral, thumbs up grip (to allow for movement within the joint and preven impingment), and then perform the raises, up to parallel with the floor.

make sure to keep the shoulder blades down and retracted and don't let them hike up.

I'll try and find a picture.

I recall reading about 30 degrees in front of the frontal plane. Is that correct?

**P-funk** · 06-22-2006, 09:54 AM

**CowPimp** · 06-22-2006, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

Good stuff. Always good to have an exercise in the bag when there are so many people with shoulder impingment problems floating around.

**P-funk** · 06-22-2006, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

Good stuff. Always good to have an exercise in the bag when there are so many people with shoulder impingment problems floating around.

yep, this is a great one for the shoulder. I use it a lot. I have pretty much taken lateral raises out of most of my clients programs and replaced them with scaption raises to work on the scapular stabilizers more.

Also, how many people do lateral raises properly?

I usually see:

a) lots of swining
b) lots of arm bend
c) lots of shrugging (really dangerous for the muscles that are abducting the shoulder)
d) all of the above going on at the same time.

defenitly not an exercise I recommend going heavy on either just become form tends to go out the window. I like 10-12 reps.

**CowPimp** · 06-22-2006, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

yep, this is a great one for the shoulder. I use it a lot. I have pretty much taken lateral raises out of most of my clients programs and replaced them with scaption raises to work on the scapular stabilizers more.

Also, how many people do lateral raises properly?

I usually see:

a) lots of swining
b) lots of arm bend
c) lots of shrugging (really dangerous for the muscles that are abducting the shoulder)
d) all of the above going on at the same time.

defenitly not an exercise I recommend going heavy on either just become form tends to go out the window. I like 10-12 reps.

I'm with you there. Thankfully most all of my clients are very good about form and don't have big egos. The one douche bag I didn't like training just moved 3000 miles away and got replaced by this older guy who's real cool.

mike456 · 06-22-2006, 02:58 PM

im guessing these are also bad like upright rows??
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/.../DBRaises.html

If they are I am just going to DB Lateral Raises.
Acouple of questions
Should I put these on Push or Pull day?
I will be doing DB rows, Pull-ups, and Lateral Raises, are these enough for the traps? or should I add in shrugs(my goals are strength and size)

**P-funk** · 06-22-2006, 03:02 PM

yea, I don't like those either.

I place lateral raises on push day since you are moving the load away from the body. But, it is a small single joint exercise and in the grand scheme of things I don't think it makes a big difference.

alexvega · 06-22-2006, 06:05 PM

In my experience , i just to be on the same exercise, but one day isaw a Milows sarsev, and started to work my shoulder with lateral in diferents ways, it increased my stregh and now do upright rows heavy very heavy , well heavy to my body, but i am sure if you start to work your shoulders in diferents angles, that`s will bring you benefits.

**CowPimp** · 06-22-2006, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike456

im guessing these are also bad like upright rows??
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/.../DBRaises.html

If they are I am just going to DB Lateral Raises.
Acouple of questions
Should I put these on Push or Pull day?
I will be doing DB rows, Pull-ups, and Lateral Raises, are these enough for the traps? or should I add in shrugs(my goals are strength and size)

Those are pretty much the same as upright rows. It's still shoulder abduction done while maintaining a state of full internal rotation. This is what turns the subacromial space in your shoulder capsule into nothing. The only real different is a slightly decreased ROM and different wrist orientation.

Also, lateral raises are a push movement. Think of the opposite movement. The opposite move is obviously a pulling movement. Like P said though, it probably doesn't matter all that much.

**gopro** · 06-22-2006, 11:30 PM

Personally, I love upright rows...especially with a shoulder width grip. Tremendous lateral delt builder. I use them with many clients as well, with no problem.

The keys to using them without pain are:

-Don't use them every week, in order to prevent an overuse injury.
-Perform them strictly.
-Bar should not pass about nipple level.
-Rotator should be warmed up beforehand.

However, even with that, there are certainly some people that simply cannot do these without pain, and they should find alternate movements.

AKIRA · 06-24-2006, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gopro

Personally, I love upright rows...especially with a shoulder width grip. Tremendous lateral delt builder. I use them with many clients as well, with no problem.

The keys to using them without pain are:

-Don't use them every week, in order to prevent an overuse injury.
-Perform them strictly.
-Bar should not pass about nipple level.
-Rotator should be warmed up beforehand.

However, even with that, there are certainly some people that simply cannot do these without pain, and they should find alternate movements.

Howd I know hed be a fan!

Dont pass the nipple level. Hmm, never thought of that.

I personally dont like doing any raises, but scaptions are my least hated exercises. Its just down to a pride thing. I have to stay light to keep strict form. Then the light weight burns the shit out of me.

Then I have a mess.

**gopro** · 06-25-2006, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKIRA

Howd I know hed be a fan!

How DID you know? You psychic?

06-19-2006, 10:48 PM	#1
mike456 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,284	Upright Rows I have been hearing that they are bad for you, and one day I was doing them and felt some weird pain in my right tricep area, is this exercise safe if you do them with a wide grip(wider than shouler grip), the reason I ask is I hate all lateral delt/trap exercises and this exercise takes care of both of them...
mike456 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,284

06-19-2006, 11:08 PM	#3
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,574	internlly rotating the shoulder and performing abdution just sets up of for problems. also, if you look at the movement it is abdtcion, extension (at the top) and external rotation (at the end of the movement)......that is a shit ton of work for the rotators in one exercise. risk greater then reward IMO.
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! Ivonne's Blog on Health and Wellness! Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

06-19-2006, 11:20 PM	#4
mike456 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,284	so it doesn't make a difference if you do it with a wider grip?
mike456 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,284

06-19-2006, 11:33 PM	#5
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,574	wide or short I still don't like the exercises. with the wide grip you get less (almost no) ext. rotation at the top of the movement and a little extension BUT, your shoulder is still placed in internal rotation and now you are increasing the amount of abduction you are getting and really jamming that humerous in there. no good IMO. That is just my opinoin. It seems a lot of coaches, physicap therapists and orthopedists are on the same page with the exercise. If it doesn't bother you then do it. I just think risk is greater then reward.
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! Ivonne's Blog on Health and Wellness! Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

06-22-2006, 01:38 AM	#8
Andy_Massaro Beginning body builder Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: CT Posts: 420 Photos: 3	i always get a sharp pain in my shoulders after doing them.. i thought it was because my shoulders are just really weak but i guess not.. what are some alternative exercises ?
	Myspace Journal "The way to gain a good reputation is to endeavor to be what you desire to appear." - Socrates "Better to do a little well, then a great deal badly." - Socrates

06-21-2006, 06:19 PM	#6
alexvega simpsom Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: costaRica Posts: 1,153 Photos: 21	IMO first you shoul increase your strength, with other exercise, and after do that exercise. it was my experience, now i can do up rights rows heavy very heavy bro.

06-21-2006, 07:28 PM	#7
LexusGS 3UZFE Join Date: May 2005 Location: United States Posts: 2,636	i hate these streight up and refuse do do them cus they feel like shit on my posterior delts.

06-22-2006, 08:10 AM	#9
SJ69 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Philly Posts: 1,026 Photos: 1	I like them, but I don't go heavy, usually between 8-12 reps. For some reason this is the only movement that really pumps up my traps. I get a better trap pump from these than from shrugs for some reason.
	"I don't like small cars or real big women, but somehow I always find myself in 'em" - KR

06-22-2006, 09:54 AM	#14
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,574
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! Ivonne's Blog on Health and Wellness! Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

06-22-2006, 02:58 PM	#18
mike456 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,284	im guessing these are also bad like upright rows?? http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/.../DBRaises.html If they are I am just going to DB Lateral Raises. Acouple of questions Should I put these on Push or Pull day? I will be doing DB rows, Pull-ups, and Lateral Raises, are these enough for the traps? or should I add in shrugs(my goals are strength and size)
mike456 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,284

06-22-2006, 03:02 PM	#19
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,574	yea, I don't like those either. I place lateral raises on push day since you are moving the load away from the body. But, it is a small single joint exercise and in the grand scheme of things I don't think it makes a big difference.
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! Ivonne's Blog on Health and Wellness! Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

06-22-2006, 06:05 PM	#20
alexvega simpsom Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: costaRica Posts: 1,153 Photos: 21	In my experience , i just to be on the same exercise, but one day isaw a Milows sarsev, and started to work my shoulder with lateral in diferents ways, it increased my stregh and now do upright rows heavy very heavy , well heavy to my body, but i am sure if you start to work your shoulders in diferents angles, that`s will bring you benefits.

06-22-2006, 11:30 PM	#22
gopro NGA/IFPA Pro Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Ft. Lauderdale Florida Posts: 10,521	Personally, I love upright rows...especially with a shoulder width grip. Tremendous lateral delt builder. I use them with many clients as well, with no problem. The keys to using them without pain are: -Don't use them every week, in order to prevent an overuse injury. -Perform them strictly. -Bar should not pass about nipple level. -Rotator should be warmed up beforehand. However, even with that, there are certainly some people that simply cannot do these without pain, and they should find alternate movements.
	Monthly columnist for Muscular Development and Ironman magazines. GOLIATH LABS Sponsored Athlete/Board Rep www.prrstraining.com Time to GROW Without Plateau! Personal Training Gopro is available for online personal training, dietary guidance, and contest prep coaching. Send me a PM or e-mail if interested. Thank you.

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