Honestly, can I really bulk w/o gaining fat?

mike456 · 07-25-2006, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenwood

yes.

kenwood · 07-25-2006, 12:27 AM

juggernaut · 07-25-2006, 04:14 AM

I have something to say & I hope this comes out right: If a brick layer continues laying brick with the same amount of mortar and brick, then what will happen? Surely he will have to stop building because he has the same amount and cannot continue to do the same amount of work; If he has more, then that means he can build bigger. The same with food and bodybuilding, right?
That make sense?

PWGriffin · 07-25-2006, 06:48 AM

Mike....you are stupid and wrong. What the fuck is the root word of "maintenance"....to MAINTAIN. What the fuck do you think muscle is made of?? Hopes and dreams??? If your body is expending exactly what it takes in on a daily basis...how can it possibly be charged with the extra task of building more metabolically expensive tissue?? If it can it will burn MUSCLE for energy FIRST. As it is less "efficient" in terms of raw survival.

Where do you get this shit?? Why don't you do some more reading instead of pulling useless bullshit out of your ass in what hopes I can only imagine is confusing less intelligent newer posters for your own pitiful entertainment....

Damn and there have been moments when it seemed you had learned alot and was starting to help some of the newer lifters.

SJ69 · 07-25-2006, 07:01 AM

Why is everyone arguing over maintenance calories? It's self explanatory. It means enough calories to MAINTAIN body weight, so yes, on maintenance calories you can gain muscle and loose fat theoretically, but by definition you can't add muscle at maintenance unless you have fat to loose.

SJ69 · 07-25-2006, 07:02 AM

Check out the Ultimate Diet 2.0, it's all about body recomp and gaining muscle w/out fat.

juggernaut · 07-25-2006, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PWGriffin

Mike....you are stupid and wrong. What the fuck is the root word of "maintenance"....to MAINTAIN. What the fuck do you think muscle is made of?? Hopes and dreams??? If your body is expending exactly what it takes in on a daily basis...how can it possibly be charged with the extra task of building more metabolically expensive tissue?? If it can it will burn MUSCLE for energy FIRST. As it is less "efficient" in terms of raw survival.

Where do you get this shit?? Why don't you do some more reading instead of pulling useless bullshit out of your ass in what hopes I can only imagine is confusing less intelligent newer posters for your own pitiful entertainment....

Damn and there have been moments when it seemed you had learned alot and was starting to help some of the newer lifters.

uh its a debate. shut up dicknose and let him debate. All youre doing is polling up your meager little post count.

Pedigree · 07-25-2006, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike456

Guy who started the thread- Eat maintenence and get a good training program. You will gain muscle with no fat. It will be a bit slower progress, but you will keep your abs and add muscle.

This is 100% WRONG.

If you're slowly adding a little fat, it means you're in an optimal anabolic state for muscle growth. If you're adding fat too quickly, you obviously need to analyze what you're doing and adjust accordingly. Trying to gain muscle without gaining any fat will inhibit muscle gains.

PWGriffin · 07-25-2006, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juggernaut

uh its a debate. shut up dicknose and let him debate. All youre doing is polling up your meager little post count.

And the debate was between mike and I....and I made a point in my last post...something you didn't in this one....looks like you are the troll trying to up your post count...

and dicknose?? How fucking lame...you are useless.

**CowPimp** · 07-25-2006, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike456

Guy who started the thread- Eat maintenence and get a good training program. You will gain muscle with no fat. It will be a bit slower progress, but you will keep your abs and add muscle.

Mike, just admit you're wrong. If you are eating at maintenance level, then that means your body has enough energy to survive and perform your regular daily activities without reducing current energy reserves (Fat stores). How do you expect your body to build muscle without extra energy to do so? The energy and materials (Amino acids from protein intake) to build muscle have to come from somewhere. If you have already used all of the energy you provided your body with just to survive, there will be nothing left for you to build muscle with.

juggernaut · 07-25-2006, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PWGriffin

And the debate was between mike and I....and I made a point in my last post...something you didn't in this one....looks like you are the troll trying to up your post count...

and dicknose?? How fucking lame...you are useless.

yo momma.

juggernaut · 07-25-2006, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

Mike, just admit you're wrong. If you are eating at maintenance level, then that means your body has enough energy to survive and perform your regular daily activities without reducing current energy reserves (Fat stores). How do you expect your body to build muscle without extra energy to do so? The energy and materials (Amino acids from protein intake) to build muscle have to come from somewhere. If you have already used all of the energy you provided your body with just to survive, there will be nothing left for you to build muscle with.

Exactly, this goes back to my point about the bricklayer. You need a surplus of protein/fats/carbs to build new muscle.

PWGriffin · 07-25-2006, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juggernaut

yo momma.

Quote:

Exactly, this goes back to my point about the bricklayer. You need a surplus of protein/fats/carbs to build new muscle.

so if we are in agreement then why are you all over me?? Maybe I could've been nicer about the way I put it....But I'm easily annoyed.

Do people on this forum really care about their post count??

juggernaut · 07-25-2006, 10:52 AM

I dunno. I just pick on people really well.

mike456 · 07-25-2006, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PWGriffin

Mike....you are stupid and wrong. What the fuck is the root word of "maintenance"....to MAINTAIN. What the fuck do you think muscle is made of?? Hopes and dreams??? If your body is expending exactly what it takes in on a daily basis...how can it possibly be charged with the extra task of building more metabolically expensive tissue?? If it can it will burn MUSCLE for energy FIRST. As it is less "efficient" in terms of raw survival.

That is the problem some of you are tinking of the word maintenece and it has to do with diet, so that makes you automatically think maintenence means to maintain the same bodyweight, I will say it one more time eating maintenece makes you maintain your bodyfat not bodyweight. So what if I ate maintenece and lost muscle/or gained a few inches on my height, I lossed/gained bodyweight, but kept at the same bodyfat

Where do you get this shit?? Why don't you do some more reading instead of pulling useless bullshit out of your ass in what hopes I can only imagine is confusing less intelligent newer posters for your own pitiful entertainment....
I got "this shit using" my common sense.

Damn and there have been moments when it seemed you had learned alot and was starting to help some of the newer lifters.
Yea and this is another one of those moments.

.

TJ Cline · 07-25-2006, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

If you eat maintenance calories, then you won't gain weight.

BS

Very easy to grow every year eating around maintence calories....bulking is only for very very skinny people and those who love to be fat.

kcoleman · 07-25-2006, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

BS

Very easy to grow every year eating around maintence calories....bulking is only for very very skinny people and those who love to be fat.

Yea, you can gain weight eating around your maintenance level, but if you are truly eating exactly at maintenance, and aren't new to lifting/having a growth sput/on gear, then you won't grow.

mike456 · 07-25-2006, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

Mike, just admit you're wrong. If you are eating at maintenance level, then that means your body has enough energy to survive and perform your regular daily activities without reducing current energy reserves (Fat stores). How do you expect your body to build muscle without extra energy to do so? The energy and materials (Amino acids from protein intake) to build muscle have to come from somewhere. If you have already used all of the energy you provided your body with just to survive, there will be nothing left for you to build muscle with.

CowPimp, just admit you're wrong. His maintenece will change when he starts lifting!!! Don't you understand what is maintenece calories. It is the calories you eat to maintain that bodyfat(not bodyweight). So if his body will be burning the protein/energy,etc. off (to build the muscle)he will still stay at the same bodyfat, but there will be added muscle. So if his body needs that protein/energy,etc. to add needed muscle that will be in his maintenece because he is burning it off!
Maintenece calories will keep ypu at your same bodyfat, not weight.

What you explained is not eating maintenece! If he ate maintenece his body will have the energy needed to make the muscle and it will be burned off. no fat will be used for energy, and no fat will be gained.

TJ Cline · 07-25-2006, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcoleman

Yea, you can gain weight eating around your maintenance level, but if you are truly eating exactly at maintenance, and aren't new to lifting/having a growth sput/on gear, then you won't grow.

Not even possible to eat exactily maintance calories every day.....unless you are hooked up to some nutritional computer that I have not heard of yet.

Almost every guy I trained with who was strong or a good athlete when I was a kid had the same BF% year round and grew just fine.....the ones who "Bulked" were fat powerlifters and now 20+ years later they are still fat pigs.

**CowPimp** · 07-25-2006, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike456

CowPimp, just admit you're wrong. His maintenece will change when he starts lifting!!! Don't you understand what is maintenece calories. It is the calories you eat to maintain that bodyfat(not bodyweight). So if his body will be burning the protein/energy,etc. off (to build the muscle)he will still stay at the same bodyfat, but there will be added muscle. So if his body needs that protein/energy,etc. to add needed muscle that will be in his maintenece because he is burning it off!
Maintenece calories will keep ypu at your same bodyfat, not weight.

What you explained is not eating maintenece! If he ate maintenece his body will have the energy needed to make the muscle and it will be burned off. no fat will be used for energy, and no fat will be gained.

Mike, you are ridiculous. How is anyone going to gain weight without a surplus of calories? Your definition of maintenance is totally jacked. Maintenance calories does not include the calories necessary to create new muscle mass. If there are calories enough to build new muscle, then you are NOT eating at maintenance.

I don't know where you go this definition of maintenance, but it is wrong. You simply don't know what the Hell you're talking about.

mike456 · 07-25-2006, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcoleman

Yea, you can gain weight eating around your maintenance level, but if you are truly eating exactly at maintenance, and aren't new to lifting/having a growth sput/on gear, then you won't grow.

Yes you can!! If you eat at exactly maintenence you won't gain fat or lose fat, but you can gain muscle/height therefor gaining weight. It has nothing to do with bodyweight, just BF! If you are eating maintenece and lifting that means you are eating enough to build muscle without fat.

**CowPimp** · 07-25-2006, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

Not even possible to eat exactily maintance calories every day.....unless you are hooked up to some nutritional computer that I have not heard of yet.

Almost every guy I trained with who was strong or a good athlete when I was a kid had the same BF% year round and grew just fine.....the ones who "Bulked" were fat powerlifters and now 20+ years later they are still fat pigs.

Well, your body up and downregulates metabolism based on caloric intake to a certain extent, so you can be eating maintenance within a certain range. Once you outeat your body's ability to upregulate metabolism then weight gain will occur.

I agree that eating only slightly above maintenance is a good idea, but you are still eating above maintenance. It is not possible to gain weight by eating at maintenance. If that were the case, then you would be pretty close to solving the problem of starvation.

TJ Cline · 07-25-2006, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike456

Yes you can!! If you eat at exactly maintenence you won't gain fat or lose fat, but you can gain muscle/height therefor gaining weight. It has nothing to do with bodyweight, just BF! If you are eating maintenece and lifting that means you are eating enough to build muscle without fat.

I agree 100% with this statement.!!

**CowPimp** · 07-25-2006, 12:33 PM

No one has answered to me the question of where your body gets the energy with which to build muscle if you are eating maintenance.

kcoleman · 07-25-2006, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

Not even possible to eat exactily maintance calories every day.....unless you are hooked up to some nutritional computer that I have not heard of yet.

Almost every guy I trained with who was strong or a good athlete when I was a kid had the same BF% year round and grew just fine.....the ones who "Bulked" were fat powerlifters and now 20+ years later they are still fat pigs.

OK I think the only problem here is a matter of semantics. Except mike, who's just being a dumbass.

07-25-2006, 12:27 AM	#32
kenwood Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 4,878 Photos: 1	lol

07-25-2006, 04:14 AM	#33
juggernaut hybrid of machine & skin Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Mars Posts: 4,129 Photos: 2	I have something to say & I hope this comes out right: If a brick layer continues laying brick with the same amount of mortar and brick, then what will happen? Surely he will have to stop building because he has the same amount and cannot continue to do the same amount of work; If he has more, then that means he can build bigger. The same with food and bodybuilding, right? That make sense?
	Eat well, train daily, die anyway.

07-25-2006, 07:01 AM	#35
SJ69 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Philly Posts: 1,023 Photos: 1	Why is everyone arguing over maintenance calories? It's self explanatory. It means enough calories to MAINTAIN body weight, so yes, on maintenance calories you can gain muscle and loose fat theoretically, but by definition you can't add muscle at maintenance unless you have fat to loose.
	"I don't like small cars or real big women, but somehow I always find myself in 'em" - KR

07-25-2006, 07:02 AM	#36
SJ69 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Philly Posts: 1,023 Photos: 1	Check out the Ultimate Diet 2.0, it's all about body recomp and gaining muscle w/out fat.
	"I don't like small cars or real big women, but somehow I always find myself in 'em" - KR

07-25-2006, 10:52 AM	#44
juggernaut hybrid of machine & skin Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Mars Posts: 4,129 Photos: 2	I dunno. I just pick on people really well.
	Eat well, train daily, die anyway.

07-25-2006, 12:33 PM	#54
CowPimp Fueled by Testosterone Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 15,405	No one has answered to me the question of where your body gets the energy with which to build muscle if you are eating maintenance.
	The only time it's bad to feel the burn is when you're peeing... CowPimp Picks Up Heavy Shit MySpace YouTube Videos