Honestly, can I really bulk w/o gaining fat?

Mike Tuvre, USA · 07-23-2006, 09:11 PM

I'm ready to start bulking again, but don't want to lose my abs. Any chance? Been training many yrs. Never had a successful "clean bulk" where I saw dramatic growth. My best growth is when I pig out on everything, but losing even 10 lbs of fat (later) sux.

Thanks

Squaggleboggin · 07-23-2006, 09:55 PM

Well if you can see your abs now, I'm guessing you're keeping good track of your nutrients. So keep all the same ratios, do whatever it is you're doing, but consume a few hundred more calories each day and start gearing your training towards a bulk if you haven't done so already. If you start making gains, keep the calories where they are; if not, adjust accordingly.

**CowPimp** · 07-23-2006, 10:16 PM

It's pretty hard to gain zero fat, but you can definitely minimize your fat gains so that cutting is a little less painful when the time comes. I try not to gain more than about 1 pound a week, and I shoot for a little less than that. Your body's rate of protein synthesis is limited; you can't gain muscle faster than a certain level, so at a certain point you're just going to gain a shitload of extra fat without much extra muscle.

Pedigree · 07-24-2006, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Tuvre, USA

Any chance?
Thanks

No.

fufu · 07-24-2006, 09:02 AM

Unless you can find that perfect number of calories, no. However, you can gain very little fat, probably an unnoticable amount. I have been clean bulking for 3 1/2 months and gained 6-7 lbs and I don't notice much of a change in body fat.

mike456 · 07-24-2006, 12:15 PM

Don't you think if he eats maintenece calories with clean foods he will gain muscle without gaining fat?
Eat Lean Meats/Poultry/Fish for Protein
Eat Oatmeal for Good Carbs
Eat peanuts/fish for Good Fats
Eat vegetables
40%/40%/20%carbs
I think yo can do it.

**CowPimp** · 07-24-2006, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike456

Don't you think if he eats maintenece calories with clean foods he will gain muscle without gaining fat?
Eat Lean Meats/Poultry/Fish for Protein
Eat Oatmeal for Good Carbs
Eat peanuts/fish for Good Fats
Eat vegetables
40%/40%/20%carbs
I think yo can do it.

If you eat maintenance calories, then you won't gain weight.

If you gain weight, some of it will be fat. Believe me, it's damned near impossible to gain muscle without fat. I have gone through periods where my diet was as meticulous as a competing bodybuilder's. I still gained fat with very modest caloric suprluses.

mike456 · 07-24-2006, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

If you eat maintenance calories, then you won't gain weight.
If you gain weight, some of it will be fat. Believe me, it's damned near impossible to gain muscle without fat. I have gone through periods where my diet was as meticulous as a competing bodybuilder's. I still gained fat with very modest caloric suprluses.

Combined with weight training, I believe you will, IMO

fufu · 07-24-2006, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike456

Combined with weight training, I believe you will, IMO

Negative. Maintence means to maintain, to stay the same. How can you gain muscle if you don't gain weight? It is simple math. You can get stonger but you won't get any bigger.

PWGriffin · 07-24-2006, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fufu

Negative. Maintence means to maintain, to stay the same. How can you gain muscle if you don't gain weight? It is simple math. You can get stonger but you won't get any bigger.

Agreed....If a person was to gain muscle without gaining weight...they would have to be gaining muscle while LOSING fat...which is even more unlikely.

Quote:

Combined with weight training, I believe you will, IMO

The definition of maintenance calories means to be expending close to, if not precisely, the number of calories ingested...it requires a certain caloric surplus to support growth.

mike456 · 07-24-2006, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PWGriffin

Agreed....If a person was to gain muscle without gaining weight...they would have to be gaining muscle while LOSING fat...which is even more unlikely.

Who said he will gain muscle without gaining weight

He wants to gain muscle without gaining fat.

mike456 · 07-24-2006, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fufu

Negative. Maintence means to maintain, to stay the same. How can you gain muscle if you don't gain weight? It is simple math. You can get stonger but you won't get any bigger.

To eat Maintenece means to stay at the same Amount of BodyFat not weight!

If you eat over maintenence you will gain fat - it is that simple.

If you lift and eat maintenence you will gain muscle with no fat.

mike456 · 07-24-2006, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fufu

Negative. Maintence means to maintain, to stay the same. How can you gain muscle if you don't gain weight? It is simple math. You can get stonger but you won't get any bigger.

Tell me were the hell you saw that if you eat at maintenece you will stay at the same weight??

Heres something to prove my point:
If you eat at maintenece, and stop lifting you will lose muscle there for- losing weight. That just proved you wrong, you ate at maintenece but still lost weight.

Now think in vice-versa:
If you ate maintenece and lifted weights you would gain muscle therefor- gaining weight!You ate at maintenece but still gained weight.

juggernaut · 07-24-2006, 09:47 PM

shit i feel like i just read one of those millers analogy test questions...whew!!!

mike456 · 07-24-2006, 09:55 PM

I am waiting for a response from fufu/PWGriffin after they read my posts.

juggernaut · 07-24-2006, 09:58 PM

I honestly believe a clean bulk can be done without any additional BF but why do it that way? Its a lot harder, and if you are going to bulk the right way, chances are you will only put on weight that can be taken off with minimal ease.

**CowPimp** · 07-24-2006, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike456

To eat Maintenece means to stay at the same Amount of BodyFat not weight!

If you eat over maintenence you will gain fat - it is that simple.

If you lift and eat maintenence you will gain muscle with no fat.

Wrong. Maintenance means to say at the same amount of weight. New muscle mass requires energy to create. You can recomposition, but really all that your body is doing is using fat stores to generate the extra energy necessary to create muscle mass. This becomes damned near impossible after your first few months of resistance training.

mike456 · 07-24-2006, 10:31 PM

CP- If you eat at your maintenence that does not mean you cant lose or gain weight- look at my previous posts.

**CowPimp** · 07-24-2006, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike456

CP- If you eat at your maintenence that does not mean you cant lose or gain weight- look at my previous posts.

By definition, that is exactly what it means. I'm telling you that you're wrong.

mike456 · 07-24-2006, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

By definition, that is exactly what it means. I'm telling you that you're wrong.

No it does not, if you eat at maintenece that means you will maintain your Bodyfat, not Bodyweight. I don't care what anyone else thinks, you may think I am being close minded, but in my head I am 100% right.

**CowPimp** · 07-24-2006, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike456

No it does not, if you eat at maintenece that means you will maintain your Bodyfat, not Bodyweight. I don't care what anyone else thinks, you may think I am being close minded, but in my head I am 100% right.

You can be whatever you want in your head, but in reality you are wrong.

Think about the word maintenance; it means keeping things as they are. It means eating so that there is a neutral energy balance. If your body has exactly enough calories coming in to survive without resorting to fat stores, then how is it going to build muscle mass? That requires extra calories.

mike456 · 07-24-2006, 10:45 PM

Yes it means keeping something as it was.
Eating Maintenece Calories-
keeps bodyfat the same not bodyweight.

What if a bodybuilder stops lifting and eats maintenece- he will lose bodyweight but keep the same body fat.

**CowPimp** · 07-24-2006, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike456

Yes it means keeping something as it was.
Eating Maintenece Calories-
keeps bodyfat the same not bodyweight.

What if a bodybuilder stops lifting and eats maintenece- he will lose bodyweight but keep the same body fat.

His maintenance calories will change if he stops lifting because his energy requirements have changed. Now, he effectively no longer knows what his maintenance calories are. This is not a good example.

Also, your example is wrong anyway. He may very well keep his muscle mass and gain body fat as a result of decreasing energy requirements while keeping energy intake the same.

mike456 · 07-24-2006, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

His maintenance calories will change if he stops lifting because his energy requirements have changed. Now, he effectively no longer knows what his maintenance calories are. This is not a good example.

Also, your example is wrong anyway. He may very well keep his muscle mass and gain body fat as a result of decreasing energy requirements while keeping energy intake the same.

Who the hell said he was gonna keep energy intake the same??????
Of course his maintenence will change since he is not lifting, I did not say that he will be eating his old maintenence. I am saying if he eats his current maintenece. He will not be eating maintenece if he eats the at the maintenece when he was lifting.

mike456 · 07-24-2006, 11:53 PM

Guy who started the thread- Eat maintenence and get a good training program. You will gain muscle with no fat. It will be a bit slower progress, but you will keep your abs and add muscle.

kenwood · 07-24-2006, 11:58 PM

mike456 · 07-25-2006, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenwood

what is that, trying to get your post count up?

07-23-2006, 09:11 PM	#1
Mike Tuvre, USA Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 74	Honestly, can I really bulk w/o gaining fat? I'm ready to start bulking again, but don't want to lose my abs. Any chance? Been training many yrs. Never had a successful "clean bulk" where I saw dramatic growth. My best growth is when I pig out on everything, but losing even 10 lbs of fat (later) sux. Thanks

07-23-2006, 09:55 PM	#2
Squaggleboggin Functional Lifting = Life Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 3,540 Photos: 3	Well if you can see your abs now, I'm guessing you're keeping good track of your nutrients. So keep all the same ratios, do whatever it is you're doing, but consume a few hundred more calories each day and start gearing your training towards a bulk if you haven't done so already. If you start making gains, keep the calories where they are; if not, adjust accordingly.
	Push yourself. Enjoy yourself. Be yourself. Knowledge is power. Obsessed with functional strength. Journal

07-23-2006, 10:16 PM	#3
CowPimp Fueled by Testosterone Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 15,405	It's pretty hard to gain zero fat, but you can definitely minimize your fat gains so that cutting is a little less painful when the time comes. I try not to gain more than about 1 pound a week, and I shoot for a little less than that. Your body's rate of protein synthesis is limited; you can't gain muscle faster than a certain level, so at a certain point you're just going to gain a shitload of extra fat without much extra muscle.
	The only time it's bad to feel the burn is when you're peeing... CowPimp Picks Up Heavy Shit MySpace YouTube Videos

07-24-2006, 09:02 AM	#5
fufu fiendish thingy Elite Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 16,235 Photos: 7	Unless you can find that perfect number of calories, no. However, you can gain very little fat, probably an unnoticable amount. I have been clean bulking for 3 1/2 months and gained 6-7 lbs and I don't notice much of a change in body fat.
	fufu's 1337 Journal Your diet will set you free.

07-24-2006, 12:15 PM	#6
mike456 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,285	Don't you think if he eats maintenece calories with clean foods he will gain muscle without gaining fat? Eat Lean Meats/Poultry/Fish for Protein Eat Oatmeal for Good Carbs Eat peanuts/fish for Good Fats Eat vegetables 40%/40%/20%carbs I think yo can do it.
mike456 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,285	Journal

07-24-2006, 09:47 PM	#14
juggernaut hybrid of machine & skin Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Mars Posts: 4,129 Photos: 2	shit i feel like i just read one of those millers analogy test questions...whew!!!
	Eat well, train daily, die anyway.

07-24-2006, 09:55 PM	#15
mike456 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,285	I am waiting for a response from fufu/PWGriffin after they read my posts.
mike456 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,285	Journal

07-24-2006, 09:58 PM	#16
juggernaut hybrid of machine & skin Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Mars Posts: 4,129 Photos: 2	I honestly believe a clean bulk can be done without any additional BF but why do it that way? Its a lot harder, and if you are going to bulk the right way, chances are you will only put on weight that can be taken off with minimal ease.
	Eat well, train daily, die anyway.

07-24-2006, 10:31 PM	#18
mike456 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,285	CP- If you eat at your maintenence that does not mean you cant lose or gain weight- look at my previous posts.
mike456 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,285	Journal

07-24-2006, 10:45 PM	#22
mike456 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,285	Yes it means keeping something as it was. Eating Maintenece Calories- keeps bodyfat the same not bodyweight. What if a bodybuilder stops lifting and eats maintenece- he will lose bodyweight but keep the same body fat.
mike456 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,285	Journal

07-24-2006, 11:53 PM	#25
mike456 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,285	Guy who started the thread- Eat maintenence and get a good training program. You will gain muscle with no fat. It will be a bit slower progress, but you will keep your abs and add muscle.
mike456 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,285	Journal

07-24-2006, 11:58 PM	#26
kenwood Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 4,878 Photos: 1