Thread: full body-push/pull-just making sure its *A* ok for next week(tomorrow).

looks fine. legs are pretty low volume though.

Originally Posted by P-funk

looks fine. legs are pretty low volume though.

ok...do you suggest any other stuff for legs? instead os 3 sets how about 4 sets for them

How about a single leg movement in addition to what you are doing...

on pull day maybe a step up or a single leg leg curl.

on push day maybe a lunge, split squat, bulgarian squat or something like that.

Originally Posted by P-funk

How about a single leg movement in addition to what you are doing...

on pull day maybe a step up or a single leg leg curl.

on push day maybe a lunge, split squat, bulgarian squat or something like that.

Total Body-Push 90sec RI
ATG Squats 3x5-6
Flat Bench 3x5-6
Incline Bench 3x5-6
Military Press 3x5-6
Dips 3x5-6

Total Body-Pull 90sec RI
SLDL 3x5-6
BB Bent-Over Row 3x5-6
one arm db row 3x5-6
Wide Pull-ups 3x5-6
Close Chins 3x5-6

where would i throw them in at? in the beggining of the workout or last?

either way.

ok thanks big guy

Originally Posted by kenwood

Total Body-Push 90sec RI
ATG Squats 3x5-6
Flat Bench 3x5-6
Incline Bench 3x5-6
Military Press 3x5-6
Dips 3x5-6

Total Body-Pull 90sec RI
SLDL 3x5-6
BB Bent-Over Row 3x5-6
one arm db row 3x5-6
Wide Pull-ups 3x5-6
Close Chins 3x5-6

where would i throw them in at? in the beggining of the workout or last?

I would just up the SLDL/ATG Squat to 5 sets

Originally Posted by P-funk

How about a single leg movement in addition to what you are doing...

on pull day maybe a step up or a single leg leg curl.

on push day maybe a lunge, split squat, bulgarian squat or something like that.

That's generally what I do. I inlcude a bilateral and unliateral lower body movement each session. I think unilateral movements for the lower body are very important for optimal development.

Originally Posted by CowPimp

That's generally what I do. I inlcude a bilateral and unliateral lower body movement each session. I think unilateral movements for the lower body are very important for optimal development.

defenitly. Not only optimal leg development but also just from a real world stand point (we are always on one leg) as well as maximal strength gain (bilateral defecit) and not to mention correction of muscle imbalances.

Originally Posted by P-funk

defenitly. Not only optimal leg development but also just from a real world stand point (we are always on one leg) as well as maximal strength gain (bilateral defecit) and not to mention correction of muscle imbalances.

Indeed. It's also a much more effective way of working your hip adductors and abductors than those yes/no machines, in my opinion. It's great for improving knee stability as well, particularly on the frontal plane. Plus, nothing hurts quite like a one legged squat variation, heh.

Originally Posted by CowPimp

Indeed. It's also a much more effective way of working your hip adductors and abductors than those yes/no machines, in my opinion. It's great for improving knee stability as well, particularly on the frontal plane. Plus, nothing hurts quite like a one legged squat variation, heh.

well, the yes machine actually doesn't work your abductors maximally because the hips are in flexion. In that position the piriformis is actually recruited to do most of the work leading to compensation or an increase of the problem of piriformis syndrome (when the piriformis takes over for the glute medius) in those that already have it.

but, you are right. the integrated function of the hip ad/abductors is to provide pelvic stabilty as well as femoral stability in all three planes of motion (can you tell I have been knee deep in fucking anatomy lately.....god damn school).

P-funk, I'm suprised you haven't cussed him out yet.

Originally Posted by Seanp156

P-funk, I'm suprised you haven't cussed him out yet.

I've come to accept the fact that he is a moron.

Originally Posted by P-funk

well, the yes machine actually doesn't work your abductors maximally because the hips are in flexion. In that position the piriformis is actually recruited to do most of the work leading to compensation or an increase of the problem of piriformis syndrome (when the piriformis takes over for the glute medius) in those that already have it.

Interesting. I knew that not all of your abductors were effectively recruited with that machine, but I didn't know which one took the brunt.

but, you are right. the integrated function of the hip ad/abductors is to provide pelvic stabilty as well as femoral stability in all three planes of motion (can you tell I have been knee deep in fucking anatomy lately.....god damn school).

Same concept as core training. People do crunches and shit all the time, but that's not really how the core is used most often. The core provides trunk and pelvic stability during most of its usage time.

Originally Posted by CowPimp

Interesting. I knew that not all of your abductors were effectively recruited with that machine, but I didn't know which one took the brunt.




Same concept as core training. People do crunches and shit all the time, but that's not really how the core is used most often. The core provides trunk and pelvic stability during most of its usage time.

right, actually the piriformis is really just an external rotator but in the flexed position it can take on abduction qualities when the glute medius is weak.


You are right about the crunches. Vary rarely do I have people do them for the reason that their function is stability during movement as well as to provide a pull on the pelvis posteriorly and help stabilize. I only allow people to do crunches if their posture is good (I am not opposed to rev. crunches however).....For the reason that the rectus abdominus attaches to the 5th ribs and if you have poor posture, by training the rectus abdominus and creating greater stiffness in it, you actually pull the thoracic cavity down into worse posture (The problem you are trying to fix!). Also, the rectus usually takes over and becomes synergistically dominant for weakend oblique muscles. Which, in turn allows for less stability at the lumbo-pelvic hip complex, creating compensatory movement (rotatory movement which can lead to torsion in the lumbar). This is why the modified reverse crunch (not coming down all the way, just moving into posterior tilt w/knees flexed and then back to about 90 degree of hip flexion, maybe a little less) is going to be more effective. A) it prevents the person from contracting the recutus in the top down position, creating that pull on the thoracic cavity, B) it allows the person to effectively get the pelvic tilted needed to recruit the rectus and C) it creates an unstable enviroment when the legs are moving in the air, causing the oblique muscles to work harder to prevent that compensatory movement. I also have people draw their abs in during abdominal or stabilizatio work for the reason that I want to engage the transverse abdominus and other deep stabilizers. During movements, I don't have them do it because it tends to alter movement patterns. But, if we activate it in practice and get it firing, we hope that it will stay activated during movement and other exercises. Just like doing glute bridges, prone hip extensions or lateral tube walks. You think glutes, you contract glutes you activate glutes. after awhile, when you squat you no longer have to "think" glutes....they fire on their own. Faulty movement corrected.

Originally Posted by P-funk

right, actually the piriformis is really just an external rotator but in the flexed position it can take on abduction qualities when the glute medius is weak.


You are right about the crunches. Vary rarely do I have people do them for the reason that their function is stability during movement as well as to provide a pull on the pelvis posteriorly and help stabilize. I only allow people to do crunches if their posture is good (I am not opposed to rev. crunches however).....For the reason that the rectus abdominus attaches to the 5th ribs and if you have poor posture, by training the rectus abdominus and creating greater stiffness in it, you actually pull the thoracic cavity down into worse posture (The problem you are trying to fix!). Also, the rectus usually takes over and becomes synergistically dominant for weakend oblique muscles. Which, in turn allows for less stability at the lumbo-pelvic hip complex, creating compensatory movement (rotatory movement which can lead to torsion in the lumbar). This is why the modified reverse crunch (not coming down all the way, just moving into posterior tilt w/knees flexed and then back to about 90 degree of hip flexion, maybe a little less) is going to be more effective. A) it prevents the person from contracting the recutus in the top down position, creating that pull on the thoracic cavity, B) it allows the person to effectively get the pelvic tilted needed to recruit the rectus and C) it creates an unstable enviroment when the legs are moving in the air, causing the oblique muscles to work harder to prevent that compensatory movement. I also have people draw their abs in during abdominal or stabilizatio work for the reason that I want to engage the transverse abdominus and other deep stabilizers. During movements, I don't have them do it because it tends to alter movement patterns. But, if we activate it in practice and get it firing, we hope that it will stay activated during movement and other exercises. Just like doing glute bridges, prone hip extensions or lateral tube walks. You think glutes, you contract glutes you activate glutes. after awhile, when you squat you no longer have to "think" glutes....they fire on their own. Faulty movement corrected.

What's your opinion on abdominal bracing? It is an opposing theory to the abdominal draw in, which is supposed to achieve the same result (Co-contraction of the local and global trunk stabilizers). I seem to naturally lean toward abdominal bracing, that is, I have always autonomously implemented this method to stabilize my trunk. Abdominal bracing is the method supported by Stuart McGill.

Also, what do you think about the hanging leg raise? It's one of the few exercises I have always like for the abdominals, since people seem to love doing something for them.

Originally Posted by CowPimp

What's your opinion on abdominal bracing? It is an opposing theory to the abdominal draw in, which is supposed to achieve the same result (Co-contraction of the local and global trunk stabilizers). I seem to naturally lean toward abdominal bracing, that is, I have always autonomously implemented this method to stabilize my trunk. Abdominal bracing is the method supported by Stuart McGill.

yes, that is what I teach as well. I want people to brace or form a corset or form a girdle or whatever you want to call it. I jsut want them to flex their abs, brace themselves and then move. The only time I do the draw in is during direct stabilization training to get those deep muscles firing, which in most people fire improperly. After that, during training we use abdominal bracing (and for some the valsava manuever). I think those that have people draw their abs in during movements and exercises are missing the boat. It is pretty oversimplified to think that drawing in and engaging the TVA is the only thing you need to do to protect your spine when performing intense lifting. That is just my opinion. I think you need to get everything strong and firing at the same time. McGill is the fucking man.

Originally Posted by P-funk

yes, that is what I teach as well. I want people to brace or form a corset or form a girdle or whatever you want to call it. I jsut want them to flex their abs, brace themselves and then move. The only time I do the draw in is during direct stabilization training to get those deep muscles firing, which in most people fire improperly. After that, during training we use abdominal bracing (and for some the valsava manuever). I think those that have people draw their abs in during movements and exercises are missing the boat. It is pretty oversimplified to think that drawing in and engaging the TVA is the only thing you need to do to protect your spine when performing intense lifting. That is just my opinion. I think you need to get everything strong and firing at the same time. McGill is the fucking man.

Gotcha. I need to read his books, I only know he supports that theory from excerpts.

Originally Posted by CowPimp

Gotcha. I need to read his books, I only know he supports that theory from excerpts.

yea. There was a good article in the last NSCA journal (not this newer one but the one before it) about this topic. The author agreed with McGill as well, saying that forming a girdle is the way to go.

it is one of those things that gets debated by physical therapists and field experts all the time. In the end you just have to come to your own conclusion because I don't know that either side is right or wrong. I just feel that, like any exercise or any muscle group, it is impossible to break it down to saying it is just one thing and nothing else. Like, what if I said squat were only glutes....well...they are a lot of glutes but they are a lot of other things as well. To say that core or lumbo-pelvic-hip or total body (or whatever) stabilization ONLY happens because of the TVA and multifidi and the other deep muscles of the pelvic wall is jus a little to over simplified for me. There is so much going on in the body when lifting a load (especially as the intensity increases) that it is to complex to say it is just one thing! Now, if those muscles are weak or firing improperly, then some sort of activation technqiues (like I am suggesting) are going to help you out. Just like the squat example. If you have weak glutes, doing glute activation work as part of the warm up will help to make your squat improve. It isn't the only thing being used in the squat but, if it is the weak link, then you need to attack it and fix it. When you go to squat and you have taken care of the problem, then you will be good to go.

Activate what is not working. getting working properly. then go over and use it in real world strength exercise....that to me is 'functional training'....it has nothing to do with standing on a bosu ball (although stability can be a good thing....you need to get stronger first, that is what makes you functional).

I'm with you there. One of the reasons I tend to believe in abdominal bracing as the way to stabilize your trunk properly is because of powerlifters. This is what they do in order to move more weight. The reason they move more weight is because they provide a more stable body through which forces can act; it is a tried and true method in my opinion. Not that TVA activation doesn't have it's place, as you were saying.

Originally Posted by CowPimp

I'm with you there. One of the reasons I tend to believe in abdominal bracing as the way to stabilize your trunk properly is because of powerlifters. This is what they do in order to move more weight. The reason they move more weight is because they provide a more stable body through which forces can act; it is a tried and true method in my opinion. Not that TVA activation doesn't have it's place, as you were saying.

yup. that is the same way that I feel about it and the same reason I came to my conclusions about it. the powerlifters have it right! and, their TVA's are firing like crazy as well as every other deep and superficial muscle within the abdominal wall and lumbar region....they have to!! There is no way around it.

My head hurts....

Originally Posted by Boost777

My head hurts....

maybe you are protracting your cervical spine to much while sitting at the computer and it is forcing your nucleus pulposus to migrate posteriorly, strentching the posterior aspect of your annulus fibrosus and posterior longitudinal ligament, causing pressure to the nerve roots, blood vessels and other ligaments and tendons that travel up into your head?

You're damn right i'm doing that.

Edit: Is that your back?

Originally Posted by Boost777

You're damn right i'm doing that.

Edit: Is that your back?

who elses back would it be? lol

yes, that is me.

Well a lot of people put bodybuilders and such in their avatars, it's pretty impressive that a forumgoer mistaken you for one, so take the compliment.

Originally Posted by Boost777

Well a lot of people put bodybuilders and such in their avatars, it's pretty impressive that a forumgoer mistaken you for one, so take the compliment.

I take it as a compliment. thanks

It would have been funnier if it was a picture of some other dude in my avitar though.....haha

Originally Posted by P-funk

maybe you are protracting your cervical spine to much while sitting at the computer and it is forcing your nucleus pulposus to migrate posteriorly, strentching the posterior aspect of your annulus fibrosus and posterior longitudinal ligament, causing pressure to the nerve roots, blood vessels and other ligaments and tendons that travel up into your head?

It's funny because it's true.