Thread: Question on squatting

I would make sure that you aren't bouncing the bars off the rack and that if the bars do touch and you pause you get really really tight before you drive back up.

You might want to look at using a milk crate to measure depth....if it is to low, you can put a 45lb plate or two on top of it to touch down to.

After a few times though, you should have established were your depth is and you should be comfortable without the pins in though. You need to get comfortable squatting down on your own and feeling where bottom is without having something to dictate it to you.

Well, ATG is as low as you can go assuming flexibility issues don't limit you.

Anyway, besides that, yeah there is a disadvantage to squatting like that: it's harder! You don't get to take full advantage of the stretch reflex if you pause on the pins while in the hole. I think it's a great way to squat. Try starting the bar from the bottom for a real challenge. This is an excellent way to improve starting strength with the squat.

Originally Posted by CowPimp

Well, ATG is as low as you can go assuming flexibility issues don't limit you.

Anyway, besides that, yeah there is a disadvantage to squatting like that: it's harder! You don't get to take full advantage of the stretch reflex if you pause on the pins while in the hole. I think it's a great way to squat. Try starting the bar from the bottom for a real challenge. This is an excellent way to improve starting strength with the squat.

I can go a few inches below parallel with a neutral spine... I can go even further and have my calvs squished up against my thighs but that would mean my lower back rounds a bit.

Thanks Pimp and Funk. I am currently experimenting and squatting in the 20 rep range. I started last week with a pretty light weight that I was able to do 20 times in this fashion (without rest-pause) and the 20th rep was killer. This week I put 5lbs on the bar and did 26 reps in the same way but with 1-2 breaths inbetween reps after 20.

My lifting tempo is kindof explosive but I don't slam the weight. I am not restarting each rep off the sawhorses, merely letting them gently touch and then driving the weight up, akin to deadlifting by touching the weight to the floor each rep (ie. not actually deadlifting I guess).

I think I'm going to continue like this. While my first set last week wasn't really a true twenty rep squat (rest pauses and feeling like you wanna die towards the end), I definitely got stronger when I did it this week, and am confident that I will be able to keep adding 5lbs to the bar.

Keep them up man. You'll be glad you did...

I used to do AtG squats and thats when this personal trainer at my gym told me thats a good way to hurt ur kneesa nd to go parallel to the floor. I also ask this old guy who was squating with me and asked him how low hewent. He says the max he goes parallel cuz of his knees. Ever since than i go only parallel (maybe sometimes lower by accident). So is that correct? ATG squats can lead to knee problems??

Because I think i did have some knee pains but i dont have them anymore... Dont know if theyre from ATg squats tho..

Anytime I have gone below parallel I have hurt my knees, now matter how light the weight. And I never felt there was any benefit.

I have actually read that it is harder on the knees to stop before parallel.

Originally Posted by PWGriffin

I have actually read that it is harder on the knees to stop before parallel.

You read correctly. Not going low enough puts sheer force on the front of the knees.

If you want to hit your ass and hams hard you need to go all the way down.

I have knee problems, torn acl, mcl, a big mess in the left, right is a little clicky, nothing major. Heavy ass atg squats have done nothing but improve my knees condition. Stability is much better, there are no chronic aches, no random dislocations.

I will not do leg extensions though, the knee feels like somethings not right and it may seperate.

Originally Posted by nsimmons

If you want to hit your ass and hams hard you need to go all the way down.

I have knee problems, torn acl, mcl, a big mess in the left, right is a little clicky, nothing major. Heavy ass atg squats have done nothing but improve my knees condition. Stability is much better, there are no chronic aches, no random dislocations.

I will not do leg extensions though, the knee feels like somethings not right and it may seperate.

I have the exact same problem with my right knee, torn acl, mcl. My left knee was perfectly fine until I started going below parallel. Now my left knee hurts more than my right knee. Thanks ATG squats!!

Then you used poor form and hurt it yourself. The exercise is not predisposed to causing knee injury and there is ample evidence to suggest the opposite.

Originally Posted by nsimmons

Then you used poor form and hurt it yourself. The exercise is not predisposed to causing knee injury and there is ample evidence to suggest the opposite.

My form is spot on. My genetics are what don't allow me to go below parallel without discomfort. There is ample evidence to support either theory btw.

So you are genetically disposed to knee injury? Wheres darwin??

I suggest you work on flexibilty.

As stated earlier in the thread measurable forces have been shown under lab conditions to be less when below parallel. Do a search for this but there are many studies to show it.

Pfunk has provided some in past posts if i recall.

Originally Posted by nsimmons

So you are genetically disposed to knee injury? Wheres darwin??

I suggest you work on flexibilty.

As stated earlier in the thread measurable forces have been shown under lab conditions to be less when below parallel. Do a search for this but there are many studies to show it.

Pfunk has provided some in past posts if i recall.

I don't need to do a search. Bellow parallel = extreme pain. Parallel and above doesn't. Doesn't take a scientific study to figure that one out.

Originally Posted by FatCatMC

I have the exact same problem with my right knee, torn acl, mcl. My left knee was perfectly fine until I started going below parallel. Now my left knee hurts more than my right knee. Thanks ATG squats!!

You probably favor your right leg, leading to the left taking a greater amount of the load, leading to an asymmetrical hip shift which would put torque at the knee joint. Where on your knee does it hurt?

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

You probably favor your right leg, leading to the left taking a greater amount of the load, leading to an asymmetrical hip shift which would put torque at the knee joint. Where on your knee does it hurt?

Above the patella. Sore to the touch as well. But that's only when I get bellow parallel, it's an extreme pressure on the spot I described.

If you are unable to perform an exercise without injuring yourself than that is nothing but a defect in your physiology. I would bet money the cause of your pain is can be traced to an inbalance else where in your legs.

Where are your knees in relation to your feet when fully decended? Width of stance? Direction feet are pointing?

If my knees move very far past my toes i feel excessive knee strain, and have to lean back and place more load into the glutes and hams.

A lot of problems arise from lack of hamstring flexibilty. I have had to work on this issue myself.

Originally Posted by nsimmons

If you are unable to perform an exercise without injuring yourself than that is nothing but a defect in your physiology. I would bet money the cause of your pain is can be traced to an inbalance else where in your legs.

Where are your knees in relation to your feet when fully decended? Width of stance? Direction feet are pointing?

If my knees move very far past my toes i feel excessive knee strain, and have to lean back and place more load into the glutes and hams.

A lot of problems arise from lack of hamstring flexibilty. I have had to work on this issue myself.

It's actually the lean back that hurts it. The deeper and further back I am, the more pressure I feel on the spot above the patella. When I'm up on the balls of my feet (like a catcher in baseball) there is little to no pressure. I even dropped the weight for a few weeks just to make sure my form was on and I don't get the pain until I get to that ass-to-ground point. It doesn't make much sense to me because I'm quite flexible and have no problem getting into the squat, it's the getting out that causes the pain.

The fact that your left knee is in greater pain now leads me to believe there is some compensation, but I wouldn't be able to say for sure without a movement screen. If you do favor your right leg, or did during the recovery phase of your surgery, your posterior chain could be tight on the left side. It could also be a weak left quad, but that is doubtful given the history of right knee injuries.

People don't understand that a slight hip shift can fuck you up pretty good, especially in the lower body. Ask P-funk, an injury to your left ankle can affect your right shoulder.

You can fix the actual problem, or you can just not squat below parallel, your choice. How old are you? That would definintely have an impact in my decision if I were you. If you are 20 something it may be a good idea to fix it, if you are older or inactive, you may just leave it alone. I like my ROM so I would fix it. Athletic Body in Balance by Gray Cook is a pretty good book to look at for functional movement screens if you don't have access to a good therapist or trainer.

Originally Posted by FatCatMC

When I'm up on the balls of my feet (like a catcher in baseball) there is little to no pressure. .

So, would you say that if you squatted ATG with your heels up on plates there would be no pain? If that were the case, weak anterior tibialis and/or tight calf/soleus would be the culprit. Even if there is still pain when the heels are elevated, but it is less, I would believe part of your problem is with your lower leg.

Compensation is an excellent point. If my right knee ever starts to hurt I know ive been using it to compensate and I make an effort to force the bad knee to work. My entire left leg is smaller than my right due to 8 years of favouring it.

Have you had anything done on the bad knee to fix it? I had mine scoped and it made a huge difference in general aches and pains, as well as funny sounds. The joint is much smoother now.

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

People don't understand that a slight hip shift can fuck you up pretty good, especially in the lower body. Ask P-funk, an injury to your left ankle can affect your right shoulder.

wow....can't believe you pulled that card on me!

that project was 5 pages long.

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

Sounds like the PF joint. The fact that your left knee is in greater pain now leads me to believe there is some compensation, but I wouldn't be able to say for sure without a movement screen. If you do favor your right leg, or did during the recovery phase of your surgery, your posterior chain could be tight on the left side. It could also be a weak left quad, but that is doubtful given the history of right knee injuries.

People don't understand that a slight hip shift can fuck you up pretty good, especially in the lower body. Ask P-funk, an injury to your left ankle can affect your right shoulder.

You can fix the actual problem, or you can just not squat below parallel, your choice. How old are you? That would definintely have an impact in my decision if I were you. If you are 20 something it may be a good idea to fix it, if you are older or inactive, you may just leave it alone. I like my ROM so I would fix it. Athletic Body in Balance by Gray Cook is a pretty good book to look at for functional movement screens if you don't have access to a good therapist or trainer.

I'd like to fix the problem. I'm 26 years old. You're right about favoring my right leg, my quads are a noticibly different size. Like I said before in the thread I've dropped the weight considerably on my squats for a good period to re-evaluate my form and I have to say it's pretty solid. Flexibility has never been an issue and just recently I have started stretching before and after my workouts (which has helped alot actually). I like full ROM as well, I much prefer to work with lower weight and full ROM. I'll have to check that book out, I picked a few up that you recommended in your book review thread and was pleased. Thanks.

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

So, would you say that if you squatted ATG with your heels up on plates there would be no pain? If that were the case, weak anterior tibialis and/or tight calf/soleus would be the culprit. Even if there is still pain when the heels are elevated, but it is less, I would believe part of your problem is with your lower leg.

So stretching, stretching and more stretching would begin to help the problem?

Originally Posted by FatCatMC

So stretching, stretching and more stretching would begin to help the problem?

Without having looked at you and if elevating your heels helps, I would start with a decent calf/soleus stretching program as well as strengthening of your anterior tib, it is very common for both of these things to be an issue. The reason elevating your heels during a squat allows you to go deeper is that it loosens up the calves so increasing calf flexibilty should help. You might even be able to get away with just stretching your calves/soleus prior to squatting. It would reduce power, but ROM is more important, IMO.

If elevating your heels does not completely remedy the pain, there is something else going on.

*I am not telling you to squat with elevated heels, it is just a test, you should squat with your heel flat on the floor.

Originally Posted by P-funk

wow....can't believe you pulled that card on me!

that project was 5 pages long.

That was the class wth the sahrmann book, right? 5 pages, that is funny, they gave you 3-4, right?

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

That was the class wth the sahrmann book, right? 5 pages, that is funny, they gave you 3-4, right?

yea, that book and the kineseology of the musculoskeletal system for the physical rehabilitatio professional.


It was supposed to be 3-4 pgs. Mine went to 4.5 pages. I got long winded i guess. after about 2pgs. i just started to get annoyed. i hate typing all that shit out. I wish i could just call the professor on the phone and say my answer into his damn answering machine,