Thread: Help with a fullbody routine!

bummmmmmp

Seems like you have alot more upper body stuff than lower.

If you want a well balanced physique, you can't really have "priority" muscles.

Well they are a priority because I feel they are lagging. What if the lower body stuff was done with more volume to even it out?

Originally Posted by Boost777

Well they are a priority because I feel they are lagging. What if the lower body stuff was done with more volume to even it out?

That would be good IMO.

Why do you think they are lagging? Do you have measurements/pictures?

I'm sure I can get some pictures and measurements, maybe they aren't off.

Edit: What are the standards?

Originally Posted by Boost777

Okay so After about a month of upper lower i'm going to try full body for the first time. I have my exercise selection planned out, need advice on the sets/reps as well as how many days to train per week. What I was doing before was the upperlower routine in the stickies by cowpimp. I liked the idea of different intensities each week too. Here's what I got so far:

Workout A:
Squat
Overhead Press
Deads
Bent Rows
Flat DB Press
Curls
Situps

Workout B:
SLDL
Pullups
Front Squat
Inc BB Press
Seated Row/ One Arm Row
Dips
Calf Raises

First I need a critique on if the exercise selection is alright, my priorities are chest and arms. Next, I need the set/rep with varying intensities. Lastly can I go every other day or should I just stick with Mon/Wed/Fri? That is all and thanks in advance.

are your goals more size or strength oriented? giving a recommendation for set/reps we need to know what you are trying to accomplish.

don't worry about focusing on arms/chest, judging from your post your are still fairly new to this so just lift, learn and get a foundation going. once you have been doing this for a couple of years you'll really notice parts lagging and which aren't (i'm not even joking, it takes years for this shit to show up unless you have some crazy genetics or wierd circumstances).

i wouldn't deadlift and squat in the same session. squat on day one with SLDL's/GM's as an accessory and deadlift on the other day with lunges/front squats etc as accessory.

as has been mentioned, you have a lot of pressing and not enough pulling. 3 pulling moves and 4 pressing moves, and considering one of your pulling moves involves internal rotation of the humerus you will set yourself up for future problems. i suggest getting face pulls or something of that nature into the mix to balance out all your pressing and to built scapular stability which will ultimately keep you injury free and help increase your benching via a more stable base (shoulder girdle).

you can also drop a press, something like overheads and dips on day 1 and bench on day 2, if your worried maybe a little more volume on the benching but there is no reason you need to be pressing so much.

as far as frequency goes, if you lift right you won't be able to go more than 3x/week on a full body routine.

Yan, which pulling movement involves internal rotation of the humerus? I don't think that's accurate...

Anyway, I would drop the dips and replace it with some isolation crap, as it looks like that's what you were going for.

Adding in some scapular stabilizer work is always a good idea. It can be low intensity and use very short rest intervals so that it doesn't take up much time in your program. It would be well worth it though.

Originally Posted by CowPimp

Yan, which pulling movement involves internal rotation of the humerus? I don't think that's accurate...

Pull ups/downs, the lat attaches in the same place, basically, as the pec major (i believe the mark is the intertubecular groove) so then adducting from an extended position your humerus actually internally rotates a little. You can even see it when you come from a dead hang into the beginning of the movement.

You got me second guessing myself so i needed to make sure, my Manual of Structural Kinesiology and this site confirm it...and i get to pimp my site around a little more

I know the lats are internal rotators. Still though, try this:

Raise your arms up over your head like your are hanging from a pullup bar with a pronated grip. Do you notice how you are almost full internally rotated? Now lower your arms so that you will be in the completed pullup position. Notice how you are now almost full externally rotated? Same thing whether you are adducting or extending the shoulder.

If, however, you do chinups (Supinated grip), then you start and end in external rotation. Therefore, you remove your external rotators from the mix a bit.

Originally Posted by CowPimp

I know the lats are internal rotators. Still though, try this:

Raise your arms up over your head like your are hanging from a pullup bar with a pronated grip. Do you notice how you are almost full internally rotated? Now lower your arms so that you will be in the completed pullup position. Notice how you are now almost full externally rotated? Same thing whether you are adducting or extending the shoulder.

yes i see what you're saying, and you're probably right. that was a little tid bit of info i got when working with Pat in the gym, back in the day, and it just always stuck so i don't mind accepting that it was wrong. i'd like someone else to chime in with an opinion though.

Originally Posted by Yanick

yes i see what you're saying, and you're probably right. that was a little tid bit of info i got when working with Pat in the gym, back in the day, and it just always stuck so i don't mind accepting that it was wrong. i'd like someone else to chime in with an opinion though.

I agree. I would like to hear other opinions too.

I just happened to be think about this because I recently read one of Mike Boyle's books and he suggested that pullups are good for strengthening your rotator cuff, as is a one armed cable row if you start pronated and twist to a supinated grip as you pull in. I was just thinking, why? I came to this epiphany on my own, so there's a good chance I'm totally wrong. Heh.

I don't even understand what you guys are arguing about?

single arm rows with supination on the pull are a great exercise though.

Originally Posted by P-funk

I don't even understand what you guys are arguing about?

single arm rows with supination on the pull are a great exercise though.

lol

i guess it all boils down to what the humerus does, in the tranverse plane, when either adducting/extending from an abducted/flexed position aka a pull up/down.

Originally Posted by P-funk

I don't even understand what you guys are arguing about?

single arm rows with supination on the pull are a great exercise though.

Yanick was saying that pullups involve internal rotation of the humerus, I was suggesting the opposite.

well, lets think about it:

1) bottom position of a pull up/down (pronated grip). arms extended overhead.

2) you start to pull arm..adduction

3) as you start to approach the position where your hummerus is parallel with the floor, in order to touch the bar to your chest (around the clavical area), the elbow is going to have to move backwards slightly (squeezing the shoulder blades together), so the hummerus is internally rotating slightly, in order to finish the movement because you can't fully adduct the arm and get the bar to your chest. the only way to maintain that position and fully adduct the arm would be if you were working with independant arms (like on a free motion cable tower) or if you were doing the pull downs behind your neck (*gasp*).

Originally Posted by CowPimp

I know the lats are internal rotators. Still though, try this:

Raise your arms up over your head like your are hanging from a pullup bar with a pronated grip. Do you notice how you are almost full internally rotated? Now lower your arms so that you will be in the completed pullup position. Notice how you are now almost full externally rotated? Same thing whether you are adducting or extending the shoulder.

If, however, you do chinups (Supinated grip), then you start and end in external rotation. Therefore, you remove your external rotators from the mix a bit.

Well, this was my thinking. Does that make any sense?

Originally Posted by CowPimp

Well, this was my thinking. Does that make any sense?

like i said, if you have your arm overhead and bring it down so that the shoulder is ONLY adducted, then yes, you are in external rotation...BUT, you can get that position when you are holding a straight bar. bring your hand down further slightly, hold a broom stick, at the bottom squeeze your shoulder blades together like you would. Your hummerus will internally rotate and almost go into more of extension at the bottom.

also, boyle is correct about actively externally rotating and rowing. you will work the external rotators to a greater deal beccause you are performing that movement as you row, with load.

Originally Posted by P-funk

like i said, if you have your arm overhead and bring it down so that the shoulder is ONLY adducted, then yes, you are in external rotation...BUT, you can get that position when you are holding a straight bar. bring your hand down further slightly, hold a broom stick, at the bottom squeeze your shoulder blades together like you would. Your hummerus will internally rotate and almost go into more of extension at the bottom.

I dunno. I don't see it. If my arms are sitting as though I just finished a pullup, to internally rotate my humerus I have to touch my hand to my chest.

Originally Posted by CowPimp

I dunno. I don't see it. If my arms are sitting as though I just finished a pullup, to internally rotate my humerus I have to touch my hand to my chest.

the hummers interally rotates at the position of about 20 degrees of abduction.....not across the body like if you were doing cable internal rotations.

I sort of see what you're saying with the pure abduction scenario and behind the neck pullups, because you are fully externally rotated. I still contest that you are more externally rotated with your arms at your sides and your hands as though a bar was at your neck/clavicle than when they are overhead. I'm going to start reading on it. This is pissing me off.

it is not excessive int. rotating. BUT, you get ext. rotation you would need to pull the bar behind your neck or like i said, keep your elboz in a completely straight line down and on the same plane as the torso, as you could with a free motion machine.

Originally Posted by P-funk

the hummers interally rotates at the position of about 20 degrees of abduction.....not across the body like if you were doing cable internal rotations.

Ah, I see what you're saying. So it seems to me like during a pullup you are externally rotating initially and the internally rotating at the very end of the motion, no?

look at the position of the humerus.

look at how his upper arms (bottom of the forearms) are facing almost down in the bottom of the pull. look at how the elbows are moving backwards....internally rotating the shoulder. the arms adduct to start and then they are moving back into more of an extension position with internal rotation.

I guess my whole point is that at the beginning of a pullup your are not as externally rotated as at the end of a pullup, so therefore muscles had to work to change that position, no?

I know I'm being a stubborn ass here, heh.

Originally Posted by CowPimp

Ah, I see what you're saying. So it seems to me like during a pullup you are externally rotating initially and the internally rotating at the very end of the motion, no?

yes!

But, only in a full ROM pulldown.

lets examine this WG pulldown.

Picture A....starting out....shoulders are internaly rotated:



as she pulls down the shoulders externally rotate AND she is using a wide grip (for her at least) so she can't complete the full ROM...leaving her with ONLY shoulder adduction and no internal rotation at the bottom of the position..

Originally Posted by P-funk

yes!

But, only in a full ROM pulldown.

lets examine this WG pulldown.

Picture A....starting out....shoulders are internaly rotated:



as she pulls down the shoulders externally rotate AND she is using a wide grip (for her at least) so she can't complete the full ROM...leaving her with ONLY shoulder adduction and no internal rotation at the bottom of the position..

Yeah, I see that. I have a lot of my clients do pulldowns with the doublestack for this very reason.