Thread: Upper/Lower Program Attempt #1

goals are size, right?

Why not go to a full body 3x week? It allows you the best of both worlds- to hit the legs 3x week (nice) and still get four days of rest (nice).

Originally Posted by mike456

goals are size, right?

Size/Strength. Mostly size.

Originally Posted by Bakerboy

Why not go to a full body 3x week? It allows you the best of both worlds- to hit the legs 3x week (nice) and still get four days of rest (nice).

Thats what im doing now .

^ So why change it?

Looks good except I woudnt do low reps for lunges, Reverse Flys or good mornings.....it serves no purpose.

It's not bad. I would front squat on Thursday and back squat on your other day. You could also single leg DL or on Thursday instead of regular deadlifts.

I think I might cut out one of the lower body exercises from your lower body push batch. That's pretty high volume for twice a week.

I probably wouldn't lift quite as heavy on the reverse flys. I disagree with Foreman about the lunges and good mornings. I think going fairly heavy on those movements is totally plausible.

Looks pretty good overall. I like to see an equal number of compound push and pull movements, but really your balance is reasonable. I'm just a fiend like that.

Thanks a lot, everyone. I'll take all that on board and make some changes to it!

I hate being strapped for time before work :P.

Thanks again, i'll repost later on.

Too much exercises.
Your going heavy on some isolation.
I would completely cut out all isolation, but thats up to you.
I would switch the reverse flys for CG underhand Chins because you need a vertical pull to balance for the dips.

So for example on quad-dom day you should do one bi-lateral quad dominant, one uni-lateral quad dominant, and one bi-lateral ham-dominant.

But your goals are strength and size, so I would do this:
Lower 1 Strength
Upper 1 Strength
Lower 2 Size
Upper 2 Size

or

week 1: Size
week 2: Strength
Repeat

or

Upper 1 Push Strength, Pull Size
Upper 2 Pull Strength, Push Size
Lower 1 Ham Strength, Quad Size
Lower 2 Quad Strength, Ham Size

lots of ways to do it, heres what I would do on a upper/lower for size and strength as my goals:

Upper 1: Push Strength, Pull Size
BB Flat Bench Press 4x4@2:00RI
BB Military Press 3x6@1:00RI
DB Bent-over Row 3x12@45sec RI
CG Underhand Chin-up 3x12@45sec RI

Upper 2: Pull Strength, Push Size
BB Bent-over Row 4x4@2:00RI
Pull-up 3x6@1:00RI
DB Incline Bench 3x12@45secRI
Dips 3x12@45secRI

Lower 1: Ham Strength, Quad Size
BB Deadlift 4x4@2:00RI
BB Squat 3x12@45secRI
DB Lunge 3x12@45secRI
Calf Raise 3x12@45sec RI

Lower 2: Quad Strength, Ham Size
BB ATG Squat 4x4@2:00RI
BB SLDL 3x12@45secRI
DB One-leg RDL 3x12@45secRI
Reverse Calf Raise 3x12@45sec RI

WEEK 1


Monday: Lower (Ham Dominant)

RI - 2:00
Deadlifts - 4x4
Good Mornings - 4x4
Calve Raises - 4x14

RI - 1:30
Front Squats - 3x10
Lunges - 3x10


Tuesday: Upper (Push Dominant)

RI - 1:30
OH Press - 4x6
Bench Press - 4x6
Dips - 4x6
Skullcrushers - 2x6

RI - 1:00
Bent Over Rows - 2x12
Chin Ups - 2x12
Reverse Flys - 2x12
Curls - 2x12


Wednesday: Off


Thursday: Lower (Quad Dominant)

RI - 2:00
Back Squats - 4x4
Step Ups - 4x4

RI - 1:30
One Leg Romanian Deadlifts - 3x10
Good Mornings - 3x10
Calve Raises - 3x20


Friday: Upper (Pull Dominant)

RI - 1:30
Bent Over Rows - 4x6
Chin Ups - 4x6
Bench Rows - 4x6
Curls - 2x6

RI - 1:00
OH Press - 2x12
Bench Press - 2x12
Dips - 2x12
Skullcrushers - 2x12


Saturday: Off


Sunday: Off

***

WEEK 2


Monday: Lower (Ham Dominant)

RI - 1:30
Deadlifts - 4x6
Good Mornings - 4x6
Calve Raises - 4x16

RI - 1:00
Front Squats - 3x12
Lunges - 3x12


Tuesday: Upper (Push Dominant)

RI - 2:00
OH Press - 4x4
Bench Press - 4x4
Dips - 4x4
Skullcrushers - 2x4

RI - 1:30
Bent Over Rows - 2x10
Chin Ups - 2x10
Reverse Flys - 2x10
Curls - 2x10


Wednesday: Off


Thursday: Lower (Quad Dominant)

RI - 1:30
Back Squats - 4x6
Step Ups - 4x6

RI - 1:00
One Leg Romanian Deadlifts - 3x12
Good Mornings - 3x12
Calve Raises - 3x22


Friday: Upper (Pull Dominant)

RI - 2:00
Bent Over Rows - 4x4
Chin Ups - 4x4
Bench Rows - 4x4
Curls - 2x4

RI - 1:30
OH Press - 2x10
Bench Press - 2x10
Dips - 2x10
Skullcrushers - 2x10


Saturday: Off


Sunday: Off

***

Changed quite a lot there, but i think ive pretty much covered most of the things you guys have brought up.

Just make the reverse flys high reps. Don't do 4 sets of 4 with those, heh.

Ah, bugger! I forgot to change that. Im working off an Excel spreadsheet and typing it up to be postable. The low-rep reverse flys up there were supposed to be DB Bench rows (also called Rear Delt Rows?) unless theres a better exercise you could reccomend?

Originally Posted by Gazhole

Ah, bugger! I forgot to change that. Im working off an Excel spreadsheet and typing it up to be postable. The low-rep reverse flys up there were supposed to be DB Bench rows (also called Rear Delt Rows?) unless theres a better exercise you could reccomend?

You could keep the flys. Those are fine. Just do lighter on them. I usually stick around 10-15 reps, though occasionally go as low as 8 with people if need be.

Originally Posted by CowPimp

You could keep the flys. Those are fine. Just do lighter on them. I usually stick around 10-15 reps, though occasionally go as low as 8 with people if need be.

I kept the flys when i was doing them in 10-12 rep range, but i replaced them on the heavier 4-6 ones with the bench rows.

I like both exercises really.

How long is it reccomended to keep at a 4 day a week workout? up untill now ive always done 3 days a week, and im guessing itll take a bit more outta me with this one.

Or is it all down to how you feel after X weeks? I usually keep a program going for at least 2-3 months before i change it.

Cheers again for all your help, guys

Originally Posted by Gazhole

I kept the flys when i was doing them in 10-12 rep range, but i replaced them on the heavier 4-6 ones with the bench rows.

I like both exercises really.

How long is it reccomended to keep at a 4 day a week workout? up untill now ive always done 3 days a week, and im guessing itll take a bit more outta me with this one.

Or is it all down to how you feel after X weeks? I usually keep a program going for at least 2-3 months before i change it.

Cheers again for all your help, guys

I like to unload every 4-6 weeks. Some people can go longer and do the whole take a week off things, but I like more frequent unloading periods combined with the occasional week off if need be.

Originally Posted by mike456

Too much exercises.
Your going heavy on some isolation.
I would completely cut out all isolation, but thats up to you.
I would switch the reverse flys for CG underhand Chins because you need a vertical pull to balance for the dips.

So for example on quad-dom day you should do one bi-lateral quad dominant, one uni-lateral quad dominant, and one bi-lateral ham-dominant.

But your goals are strength and size, so I would do this:
Lower 1 Strength
Upper 1 Strength
Lower 2 Size
Upper 2 Size

or

week 1: Size
week 2: Strength
Repeat

or

Upper 1 Push Strength, Pull Size
Upper 2 Pull Strength, Push Size
Lower 1 Ham Strength, Quad Size
Lower 2 Quad Strength, Ham Size

lots of ways to do it, heres what I would do on a upper/lower for size and strength as my goals:

Upper 1: Push Strength, Pull Size
BB Flat Bench Press 4x4@2:00RI
BB Military Press 3x6@1:00RI
DB Bent-over Row 3x12@45sec RI
CG Underhand Chin-up 3x12@45sec RI

Upper 2: Pull Strength, Push Size
BB Bent-over Row 4x4@2:00RI
Pull-up 3x6@1:00RI
DB Incline Bench 3x12@45secRI
Dips 3x12@45secRI

Lower 1: Ham Strength, Quad Size
BB Deadlift 4x4@2:00RI
BB Squat 3x12@45secRI
DB Lunge 3x12@45secRI
Calf Raise 3x12@45sec RI

Lower 2: Quad Strength, Ham Size
BB ATG Squat 4x4@2:00RI
BB SLDL 3x12@45secRI
DB One-leg RDL 3x12@45secRI
Reverse Calf Raise 3x12@45sec RI

I like this much better than Gazholes workout plan.

Tis good no doubt, just the RIs are too short for me, and not enough volume for my liking.

Im still considering cutting out some isolation work from mine though.

And cheers CP, ill bear the 4-6 weeks in mind!

Also, whats a reverse calve raise? That sounds fun.

Originally Posted by Gazhole

Tis good no doubt, just the RIs are too short for me, and not enough volume for my liking.

Im still considering cutting out some isolation work from mine though.

And cheers CP, ill bear the 4-6 weeks in mind!

Also, whats a reverse calve raise? That sounds fun.

I like the exercises he chose much better, plus the rep range....the volume can be changed if needed. Isolation is fine to some degree as long as it is done right.

EDIT: I do like your workout also....

Originally Posted by Gazhole

Tis good no doubt, just the RIs are too short for me, and not enough volume for my liking.

Im still considering cutting out some isolation work from mine though.

And cheers CP, ill bear the 4-6 weeks in mind!

Also, whats a reverse calve raise? That sounds fun.

Reverse Calf Raise. I'll be trying them for the first time this week.

Foreman: Thankyou! I'm glad you like it! What about Mike's exercise selection is better? Im not being a dick, i honestly want to know :P. More 'focused'? Mine does have quite a few of them in there, i admit.

DOMS: Thats a weird exercise...Ill be checking your Journal (if you have one?) to see how those workout for you!

Originally Posted by Gazhole

Foreman: Thankyou! I'm glad you like it! What about Mike's exercise selection is better? Im not being a dick, i honestly want to know :P. More 'focused'? Mine does have quite a few of them in there, i admit.

DOMS: Thats a weird exercise...Ill be checking your Journal (if you have one?) to see how those workout for you!

I just started a journal yesterday. I'll make a special mention of what I think about that exercise. My leg workout will be the day after tomorrow.

Originally Posted by DOMS

I just started a journal yesterday. I'll make a special mention of what I think about that exercise. My leg workout will be the day after tomorrow.

Awesome, ill go take a look at it

I really dont like isolation, just because I like to have a quick workout, whats the point of doing db curls than reverse flys after, if you could just do some rows and basically do both of those exercises at the same time.

Originally Posted by mike456

I really dont like isolation, just because I like to have a quick workout, whats the point of doing db curls than reverse flys after, if you could just do some rows and basically do both of those exercises at the same time.

So you can load up on more volume for the target muscle groups without excess stress on the CNS. Isolation has a place in workouts, some people just overdo it. Isolation work is also great to stimulate underactive tissues which are synergistically dominated by other muscles in more complex movements (Activation).


Also, Gazhole, you may consider no going balls to the wall all the time on the heavier stuff. I didn't think of that, but 4 days of 4x4 shit might be pretty intense. You may want to alternate it so that one day you are going heavy on the upper and lower pull movements and the next week you are going heavy on the upper and lower push movements. The other days drop the weight by 5-10% so that you don't overreach right off the bat.

^ I thought i did something like that already? Except week1 has heavy upper, and week2 has heavy lower (4x4); and the other days have 4x6 for the dominant groups.

I can see where THAT would be a problem for a start (exhausting my legs one week, and my upper body next week :P), ill change it around to what you said, but would the other days need to be lower than the 6 reps range?

Originally Posted by Gazhole

^ I thought i did something like that already? Except week1 has heavy upper, and week2 has heavy lower (4x4); and the other days have 4x6 for the dominant groups.

I can see where THAT would be a problem for a start (exhausting my legs one week, and my upper body next week :P), ill change it around to what you said, but would the other days need to be lower than the 6 reps range?

No, 6 reps is fine. I was saying that you could keep the same exercises and everything, just do 4 reps instead of 6, but use the same weight you would have at 6 reps so that you are a few reps short of failure. Next week shift the emphasis.

Originally Posted by CowPimp

No, 6 reps is fine. I was saying that you could keep the same exercises and everything, just do 4 reps instead of 6, but use the same weight you would have at 6 reps so that you are a few reps short of failure. Next week shift the emphasis.

Ah, i see what you mean there! Good thinking. If im doing 4 reps i dont do my 4RM anyway, im not a big fan of going to failure anyway. I usually do 5RM for 4 reps, just to make sure i can get all the sets out.

Ive changed the order of the days around to:

Week 1

Mon - Ham Dom (4/10 reps)
Tue - Push Dom (6/12 reps)
Thur - Quad Dom (6/12 reps)
Fri - Pull Dom (4/10 reps)

Week 2

Mon - Push Dom (4/10 reps)
Tue- Ham Dom (6/12 reps)
Thur- Pull Dom (6/12 reps)
Fri - Quad Dom (4/10 reps)

***

Kinda like you were talking about. I had to put upper first on week two, but i thought thatd be good to do since ill have 2 days of rest between each heavy session?