Thread: So you deadlift, huh...

Originally Posted by P-funk

don't stick with any one thing. change the variables around.

I hear that.. definetly the best way to go. I'm currently running a 5x5 program... it's going to be strange changing lifts from time to time but I plan on doing it anyways

Regular and sumo-style deadlifts from the floor.

Originally Posted by CowPimp

Also, I reduce the moment arm by setting the bar on my rear delts (It doesn't feel right on my traps anyway) and bending my knees a bit. This also lets your glutes get involved more, and hopefully maintain the proper pelvic tilt better.

Ive started doing that the last few weeks, i think bending the knees a tad makes it a better movement. Certainly feels more comfortable.

I also bend the knees....not as in squatting down but enough to allow me to push my hips back.

Hey CP, what are solid numbers on the Good Morning?? I've done 205 for reps..

And about the safety of good mornings....you might be right funk....you definitely have to be pretty careful with em. I have actually found it easier to instruct clients how to do good mornings than RDL's though...alot of my clients just can't REALLY do an RDL properly, but if I put them under a barbell ( I have never put more than like a 10 and a 5 on each side) they are able to execute properly after like 1 attempt..

Originally Posted by PWGriffin

I also bend the knees....not as in squatting down but enough to allow me to push my hips back.

Hey CP, what are solid numbers on the Good Morning?? I've done 205 for reps..

And about the safety of good mornings....you might be right funk....you definitely have to be pretty careful with em. I have actually found it easier to instruct clients how to do good mornings than RDL's though...alot of my clients just can't REALLY do an RDL properly, but if I put them under a barbell ( I have never put more than like a 10 and a 5 on each side) they are able to execute properly after like 1 attempt..

that is cool. I will agree to disagree on this one. I wont load any of my clients in a good morning. For a few reasons:

1) as i stated before, I don't like the risk to reward factor.

2) most general population clients already have lower back pain as it and they have a weakend core musculature so loading them up in a good morning is asking for trouble...IMO.

3) if you are training an athlete and they get hurt doing something like a GM, good luck getting that athlete to train with you again. safety and injury prevention are key in a program. there are other ways of working the hips that are just as beneficial with a lot less risk of injury.

zercher GM's will soon become a part of my training.

when i do GM's i go very sub maximal and never to failure, come to think of it i hurt myself more on SLDL's and its variations rather than GM's because of the awareness of the GM's dangers. If one is pigheaded like me and pushes to get reps your form suffers a bit on each rep and that leads to injury.

Don't be a dumbass. Go back to school.

Originally Posted by kenwood

NO

Originally Posted by PWGriffin

I also bend the knees....not as in squatting down but enough to allow me to push my hips back.

Hey CP, what are solid numbers on the Good Morning?? I've done 205 for reps..

And about the safety of good mornings....you might be right funk....you definitely have to be pretty careful with em. I have actually found it easier to instruct clients how to do good mornings than RDL's though...alot of my clients just can't REALLY do an RDL properly, but if I put them under a barbell ( I have never put more than like a 10 and a 5 on each side) they are able to execute properly after like 1 attempt..

Do SLDL or Hyper Extensions it is basically the same thing as GMs, but safer

Originally Posted by Yanick

zercher GM's will soon become a part of my training.

when i do GM's i go very sub maximal and never to failure, come to think of it i hurt myself more on SLDL's and its variations rather than GM's because of the awareness of the GM's dangers. If one is pigheaded like me and pushes to get reps your form suffers a bit on each rep and that leads to injury.

I love Zercher Good-mornings. I just started doing them. Like I said in my journal, they friggin' feel like a hamstring isolation movement. Great stuff!

Originally Posted by DOMS

I love Zercher Good-mornings. I just started doing them. Like I said in my journal, they friggin' feel like a hamstring isolation movement. Great stuff!

yea i saw your T-Nation post and your journal and decided i'll start doing em

zercher lifts have always interested me, i'll start experimenting with them soon.

Originally Posted by Yanick

yea i saw your T-Nation post and your journal and decided i'll start doing em

zercher lifts have always interested me, i'll start experimenting with them soon.

When I get a chance to change up my routine again, I'm going to add Zercher Squats.

A couple of notes about ZGMs:

1. I didn't feel much in my lower back when I did them. Unlike regular GMs.
2. I found out that I can use more weight than I thought I could.
3. I take them from a rack.

i tried doing zercher squats with just the bar the other, and my arms really hurt .

Originally Posted by wilwn

i tried doing zercher squats with just the bar the other, and my arms really hurt .

In what way did they hurt? At the elbows? The forearms? The shoulders?

Originally Posted by P-funk

that is cool. I will agree to disagree on this one. I wont load any of my clients in a good morning. For a few reasons:

1) as i stated before, I don't like the risk to reward factor.

2) most general population clients already have lower back pain as it and they have a weakend core musculature so loading them up in a good morning is asking for trouble...IMO.

3) if you are training an athlete and they get hurt doing something like a GM, good luck getting that athlete to train with you again. safety and injury prevention are key in a program. there are other ways of working the hips that are just as beneficial with a lot less risk of injury.

I don't really have my clients do good mornings. I certainly understand the added risk, though I can see using so very light loads as a teaching tool for RDLs. I have only one client doing them right now, and we're staying light with it. The only reason I'm having him do these is because he's rehabbing his knee, so we need some lower body stuff that's easy on the knees. We're also doing lower body push movements, but keeping the resistance low and the repetitions high to facilitate bloodflow and recovery until he is discharged from PT (Which his PT said was fine and good). His knee seems virtually 100% at this point, but we're playing it safe.

In this person's case it's good because the lower external load required relative to the deadlift (This guy is pretty strong, he can deadlift in the low 300s) helps reduce undue pressure on his knees while getting some overload for his posterior chain. He also has a very strong back. He totally stiff-legs when he deadlifts with no hint of rounding that I've seen thus far.

Oh, and what do you think about Zercher GMs, P? That reduces the moment arm a bit and allows for dumping the weight in the event of an emergency. That seems like a good alternative.

Originally Posted by PWGriffin

I also bend the knees....not as in squatting down but enough to allow me to push my hips back.

Hey CP, what are solid numbers on the Good Morning?? I've done 205 for reps..

I dunno what solid numbers are. The Westside guys recommend being able to do 60-70% of what you can squat if I remember correctly. I can do almost as much as I can squat, but my good mornings have always been freakishly good compared to my other lifts.

Originally Posted by CowPimp

Oh, and what do you think about Zercher GMs, P? That reduces the moment arm a bit and allows for dumping the weight in the event of an emergency. That seems like a good alternative.

I don't think it is as dangerous...BUT, I am not going to be able to hold as much weight in the crook of my arms as I can with my hands (like an RDL) so again, I just don't go with it. it is just a variation that I don't have use for in my programs.

I am a meat and potatoes guy. we use deadlifts (RDL, convo, trap bar, 1-leg), back extensions (and 1 leg back enxtension) and that is pretty much it (I would use glute ham raise if I had one) not counting the high velocity pulling (snatches, cleans, clean or snatch pulls).

I find with those lifts we can get enough variation into a program and really challege someone.


Whenever I look at a new exercise or an exercise in a program that someone else has written I ask myself "what is the purpose of this lift in this program at this time? how valid is the reasoning." I can't seem to come up with a valid reason to do zercher good mornings over the other lifts that I mentioned. I like to keep things simple.

Originally Posted by P-funk

I don't think it is as dangerous...BUT, I am not going to be able to hold as much weight in the crook of my arms as I can with my hands (like an RDL) so again, I just don't go with it. it is just a variation that I don't have use for in my programs.

I am a meat and potatoes guy. we use deadlifts (RDL, convo, trap bar, 1-leg), back extensions (and 1 leg back enxtension) and that is pretty much it (I would use glute ham raise if I had one) not counting the high velocity pulling (snatches, cleans, clean or snatch pulls).

I find with those lifts we can get enough variation into a program and really challege someone.


Whenever I look at a new exercise or an exercise in a program that someone else has written I ask myself "what is the purpose of this lift in this program at this time? how valid is the reasoning." I can't seem to come up with a valid reason to do zercher good mornings over the other lifts that I mentioned. I like to keep things simple.

Really, I'm with you for the most part. If you look at my programs for the past couple of years you will see mostly the same stuff. However, I do like good mornings for myself, even if they are riskier. For some reason, I feel pretty damned comfortable doing them.

Also, I'm not opposed to trying new things. I really do like Zercher squats. I use them with certain clients because it seems to help iron out their squat groove, and it's great for improving core strength if that is one of their weak points in the squat. Z good mornings could be something worth adding.

i don't mean to but in the conversation but.....

I personal trainer at my gym seen me doing deadlifts last week. He said he trains local atheletes but anyway, he told me that I"m using too much weight. He said that If I drop the bar (even in a controlled way), that it is too much weight. That I have to be able to control the negative the same speed as the lift.

Is he right?

Originally Posted by viet_jon

i don't mean to but in the conversation but.....

I personal trainer at my gym seen me doing deadlifts last week. He said he trains local atheletes but anyway, he told me that I"m using too much weight. He said that If I drop the bar (even in a controlled way), that it is too much weight. That I have to be able to control the negative the same speed as the lift.

Is he right?

Fuck that. I bang the bar around when I deadlift. I don't totally drop it, but I don't slow down the negative quick as much as I do with other lifts. I usually start out more controlled and kinda drop it the last little bit.

Ask the guy why, and where he got his information, or is it just "conventional wisdom?"

Originally Posted by CowPimp

Fuck that. I bang the bar around when I deadlift. I don't totally drop it, but I don't slow down the negative quick as much as I do with other lifts. I usually start out more controlled and kinda drop it the last little bit.

Ask the guy why, and where he got his information, or is it just "conventional wisdom?"

I love doing those 3-4 rep lifts and banging the weights. Makes me feel powerful, boosts me ego. Ever since that trainer told me that, I've been lifting in the 9-11 rep range.

I'm not sure how qualified he is, or what he knows. He was damn but though, but that doesn't really mean crap. I'm just a small newb in the gym, not sure if I should question his knowledge. I'll just go with what you said.

Originally Posted by CowPimp

Really, I'm with you for the most part. If you look at my programs for the past couple of years you will see mostly the same stuff. However, I do like good mornings for myself, even if they are riskier. For some reason, I feel pretty damned comfortable doing them.

Also, I'm not opposed to trying new things. I really do like Zercher squats. I use them with certain clients because it seems to help iron out their squat groove, and it's great for improving core strength if that is one of their weak points in the squat. Z good mornings could be something worth adding.

I am not opposed to trying new things. But, usually I look at them from a valid standpoint. There isn't much need to get that creative with exercises. I typically like to look for different ways to program though. I like new exercises as long as I can find a need for them in the program.