Body Weight Exercises vs Lifting Heavy

NeilPearson · 09-08-2006, 11:24 AM

My wife and a couple of her friends recently hired a personnal trainer. The workouts he puts them on consist almost entirely of body weight exercises and exercises using an exercise ball. Since they started this, none of them want to do any heavy weight lifting.

Their goal right now is weight loss and their diets are pretty good. They go to yoga several times a week and run stairs for half an hour every Sunday. Now they added more body weight exercises to help build strength. I just thought with what they were doing already, lifting heavy would be more beneficial to them...

Also on that note, I see the exercises this trainer has them on. They are mostly exercises on an exercise ball... you know the ones that would work a lot of core muscles. I have never really done these types of exercises. I have been focusing on lifting heavy with exercises like squats, bench presses, seated rows, etc (not a lot of isolation work). I have pretty much been ignoring exercises that specifically target my core (with the idea that the core will develop also because of the compound movements I do).... Is this a mistake? Should I be doing targetted core work? (I also do Kung Fu 4-5 times a weeks and play hockey twice a week)

kenwood · 09-08-2006, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilPearson

My wife and a couple of her friends recently hired a personnal trainer. The workouts he puts them on consist almost entirely of body weight exercises and exercises using an exercise ball. Since they started this, none of them want to do any heavy weight lifting.

Their goal right now is weight loss and their diets are pretty good. They go to yoga several times a week and run stairs for half an hour every Sunday. Now they added more body weight exercises to help build strength. I just thought with what they were doing already, lifting heavy would be more beneficial to them...

Also on that note, I see the exercises this trainer has them on. They are mostly exercises on an exercise ball... you know the ones that would work a lot of core muscles. I have never really done these types of exercises. I have been focusing on lifting heavy with exercises like squats, bench presses, seated rows, etc (not a lot of isolation work). I have pretty much been ignoring exercises that specifically target my core (with the idea that the core will develop also because of the compound movements I do).... Is this a mistake? Should I be doing targetted core work? (I also do Kung Fu 4-5 times a weeks and play hockey twice a week)

mistake! .... most Personal trainers are idiots IMO. the gym i went to, they personal trainers didnt know wtf they were doing IMO. Their are some personal trainers that actually know what they are doing(P-funk, CowPimp, others) but anyways.

PWGriffin · 09-08-2006, 11:45 AM

This sounds like one of those trainers that think women call for a completely different kind of "exercise".

I, for one, use weights with ALL my clients. Even little old ladies. If I was to give him the benefit of the doubt, he COULD be trying to build their strength and work capacity up using solid bodyweight exercises before eventually progressing to a few heavier compound lifts. But as far as doing any "heavy" lifting, I doubt they will ever perform an exercise to failure outside of the 12-15 rep range.

PWGriffin · 09-08-2006, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenwood

mistake! .... most Personal trainers are idiots IMO. the .

This coming from the kid that dropped out of high school? Even the dumbest personal trainer probably has a high school education + plus some form of further education in the form of a certification...sooooo

Dumb Trainer > Kenwood.

**P-funk** · 09-08-2006, 11:49 AM

I see you are in Phoenix AZ....I live here also.

If you want your wife to get some good training......I know a guy in town that can help you out (it's me).

**P-funk** · 09-08-2006, 11:58 AM

there are a few things you wife and her friend need to know:

1) the physiology is not that different between a man and a woman. she needs to lift weights at some point in order to make improvements.

2) working the local muscluar system (stabilizing muscles) is very very important. Working the Global muscular system (the muscles involved in large movement) is important also. The most important thing is coordinating the movement between the two systems into something that is efficient, safe and effective. Sitting on the ball and doing BW exercise might be fun...but, it is not, nor should it be, the be all and end all of the program.

3) BW exercises are great. I would rather see her do something like BW squats, push ups, lunges or split squats, planks, etc.....these are basic movements that we not only encounter in everyday life, but also, lead to an increase in metabolic acitivity because the engange a large amount of muscles.

NeilPearson · 09-08-2006, 12:10 PM

So should I be adding these core bw exercises into my routine? Or will my large compound weight movement give me enough core development too?

**P-funk** · 09-08-2006, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilPearson

So should I be adding these core bw exercises into my routine? Or will my large compound weight movement give me enough core development too?

I add some stability stuff and rotational work.

where do you train at?

NeilPearson · 09-08-2006, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

I add some stability stuff and rotational work.

where do you train at?

Home

**P-funk** · 09-08-2006, 12:23 PM

ah..cool.

NeilPearson · 09-08-2006, 01:01 PM

What kind of stability/rotational work should I be adding?

And how do I convince these girls they should be doing some exercises where they would hit failure before 25 reps? Can you point to any links to support this?

PWGriffin · 09-08-2006, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilPearson

What kind of stability/rotational work should I be adding?

And how do I convince these girls they should be doing some exercises where they would hit failure before 25 reps? Can you point to any links to support this?

I don't know that you could "convince" a woman of anything without a long, involved conversation. The conversation would start out like this.

"You should lift weights, and if you are they should be challenging."

"I don't want to be bulky, I just want to tone up"

See? It's an uphill battle.

**Gazhole** · 09-08-2006, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PWGriffin

I don't know that you could "convince" a woman of anything without a long, involved conversation. The conversation would start out like this.

"You should lift weights, and if you are they should be challenging."

"I don't want to be bulky, I just want to tone up"

See? It's an uphill battle.

You are so fucking dead on its unreal.

**P-funk** · 09-08-2006, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilPearson

What kind of stability/rotational work should I be adding?

And how do I convince these girls they should be doing some exercises where they would hit failure before 25 reps? Can you point to any links to support this?

send them to a professional who can exaplin this stuff to them.

where is phoenix are they training?

BulkMeUp · 09-08-2006, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PWGriffin

"You should lift weights, and if you are they should be challenging."

"I don't want to be bulky, I just want to tone up"

99.9% chance thats the way the conversation will go. Last evening, trainer (big guy) training a chick next to me. He was showing her how to do bent over lat raises. She asks him in a serious concerned voice "If i do that, wont i get all big and bulky like you?" ... he was getting her to do them with 12lb DB's and she was afraid of getting big!

NeilPearson · 09-08-2006, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

send them to a professional who can exaplin this stuff to them.

where is phoenix are they training?

They really like their current trainer... I can't imagine them changing their mind without me giving them some compelling reason to change it.

We are at Bell and 32nd Street.

L Armstrong · 09-08-2006, 02:26 PM

Lift Weights, Lose Fat

For years, the common knowledge has been that if you want to lose fat, you have to do aerobic exercise. But while it is in part true, that belief unfortunately led many women to think that they could skip strength training. Now a new study is changing all that.

Researchers from the University of Pennsylvania's Center for Clinical Epidemiology and Biostatistics recently found that strength training — or weight lifting — plays a key role in controlling a woman's weight. They discovered that women who lifted weights just twice a week were able to avoid the slow, one to two pound weight gain per year that's so common in middle age. While that might not sound like a lot, over the years it can really add up. Another plus? Women who lifted weights had healthier hearts.

So how does lifting weights help keep you slim? It's simple — strength training builds muscle, and muscle cells burn more calories than fat cells. The more muscle you have, the more calories you burn, 24 hours a day — even when you are asleep! So if you aren't already, make strength training a part of your fitness program. Your efforts will pay off for years to come!

What's the link between muscle and metabolism?

The metabolic rate - the rate at which the body burns calories - is partly determined by the amount of muscle we have. In general, the more muscle we have, the higher our metabolic rate; the less muscle we have, the lower our metabolic rate. This explains why men, who have a high proportion of muscle, have a faster metabolism than women, and why a 20-year-old has a higher metabolism than a 70-year-old - again, they have more muscle.

Ultimately, muscle burns a lot more calories than fat so when we lose muscle, our metabolic rate drops and we burn fewer calories. In fact, research shows that the body loses a proportionately high amount of muscle with a very low calorie intake and this may considerably suppress metabolism by up to 45 percent.

This explains why it's crucial to do as much as you can to protect your metabolic rate, especially when you're dieting. And this means dieting sensibly with a suitable, rather than a very low calorie intake so that you lose fat rather than muscle.
Is there anything else I can do to stop losing muscle when I'm dieting?

As well as making sure you have sufficient calories to burn fat rather than muscle, it's also possible to build muscle, which in turn boosts metabolism. And the way to do this is, of course, to increase the amount of exercise you do. While aerobic activities such as jogging, swimming, fast walking and aerobic classes help to tone muscle and burn fat, strength or resistance training in particular will increase the amount of muscle you have in your body. And this is good news because for every extra 1lb of muscle you have, your body uses around an extra 50 calories a day! This means an extra 10lb of muscle will burn roughly an extra 500 calories a day without you doing anything - and that's a sufficient amount to lose 1lb in a week.

Show your wife this!

**P-funk** · 09-08-2006, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilPearson

They really like their current trainer... I can't imagine them changing their mind without me giving them some compelling reason to change it.

We are at Bell and 32nd Street.

don't know where that is.

that's cool. they can only like someone for so long. if they don't start seeing results, they wont like him to much.

also, if they like him so much, then why are you concered with trying to change their minds?

NeilPearson · 09-08-2006, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

don't know where that is.

that's cool. they can only like someone for so long. if they don't start seeing results, they wont like him to much.

also, if they like him so much, then why are you concered with trying to change their minds?

It's north Phoenix...

I just want them doing what would be best for them... she is my wife after all and when she pays this trainer, in effect I am paying him too. And they are trying to get me to train under him too...

**P-funk** · 09-08-2006, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilPearson

It's north Phoenix...

I just want them doing what would be best for them... she is my wife after all and when she pays this trainer, in effect I am paying him too. And they are trying to get me to train under him too...

well, one of two things will happen:

1) you are going to end up sucking it up and going to train under the guy and do some great "functional training" and stand on a bosu ball and do 20 rep squats holding 5lb DBs (if you are lucky they will be pink).

or

2) you are going to convince them that no matter how much they like him and think he is a great guy......it is their health and it is a business....and they need to seek out someone that can get them the results they desire. Otherwise you are wasting time and money.

NeilPearson · 09-08-2006, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L Armstrong

Lift Weights, Lose Fat

For years, the common knowledge has been that if you want to lose fat, you have to do aerobic exercise. But while it is in part true, that belief unfortunately led many women to think that they could skip strength training. Now a new study is changing all that.

Researchers from the University of Pennsylvania's Center for Clinical Epidemiology and Biostatistics recently found that strength training — or weight lifting — plays a key role in controlling a woman's weight. They discovered that women who lifted weights just twice a week were able to avoid the slow, one to two pound weight gain per year that's so common in middle age. While that might not sound like a lot, over the years it can really add up. Another plus? Women who lifted weights had healthier hearts.

So how does lifting weights help keep you slim? It's simple — strength training builds muscle, and muscle cells burn more calories than fat cells. The more muscle you have, the more calories you burn, 24 hours a day — even when you are asleep! So if you aren't already, make strength training a part of your fitness program. Your efforts will pay off for years to come!

What's the link between muscle and metabolism?

The metabolic rate - the rate at which the body burns calories - is partly determined by the amount of muscle we have. In general, the more muscle we have, the higher our metabolic rate; the less muscle we have, the lower our metabolic rate. This explains why men, who have a high proportion of muscle, have a faster metabolism than women, and why a 20-year-old has a higher metabolism than a 70-year-old - again, they have more muscle.

Ultimately, muscle burns a lot more calories than fat so when we lose muscle, our metabolic rate drops and we burn fewer calories. In fact, research shows that the body loses a proportionately high amount of muscle with a very low calorie intake and this may considerably suppress metabolism by up to 45 percent.

This explains why it's crucial to do as much as you can to protect your metabolic rate, especially when you're dieting. And this means dieting sensibly with a suitable, rather than a very low calorie intake so that you lose fat rather than muscle.
Is there anything else I can do to stop losing muscle when I'm dieting?

As well as making sure you have sufficient calories to burn fat rather than muscle, it's also possible to build muscle, which in turn boosts metabolism. And the way to do this is, of course, to increase the amount of exercise you do. While aerobic activities such as jogging, swimming, fast walking and aerobic classes help to tone muscle and burn fat, strength or resistance training in particular will increase the amount of muscle you have in your body. And this is good news because for every extra 1lb of muscle you have, your body uses around an extra 50 calories a day! This means an extra 10lb of muscle will burn roughly an extra 500 calories a day without you doing anything - and that's a sufficient amount to lose 1lb in a week.

Show your wife this!

I will but I already know what she will say... "I get a great work out from doing bw exercises and I can tell I am getting stronger and building muscle from doing it."

NeilPearson · 09-08-2006, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

well, one of two things will happen:

1) you are going to end up sucking it up and going to train under the guy and do some great "functional training" and stand on a bosu ball and do 20 rep squats holding 5lb DBs (if you are lucky they will be pink).

or

2) you are going to convince them that no matter how much they like him and think he is a great guy......it is their health and it is a business....and they need to seek out someone that can get them the results they desire. Otherwise you are wasting time and money.

Or we can both train in the ways we want and if we are happy with results then continue training that way... if we aren't happy, we'll change it up. I think she will be happy with her results though because she is most concerned with losing her weight and I am in control of her diet so she is going to lose no matter what training she does.

**P-funk** · 09-08-2006, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilPearson

Or we can both train in the ways we want and if we are happy with results then continue training that way... if we aren't happy, we'll change it up. I think she will be happy with her results though because she is most concerned with losing her weight and I am in control of her diet so she is going to lose no matter what training she does.

so then what is the point of your initial question?

If she is happy and that is all you care about then who cares if I, or anyone, think that her training is not optimal, that she will plateau doing BW training and that her trainer seems like he probably doesn't know physiology to well.

09-08-2006, 11:24 AM	#1
NeilPearson Registered User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 2,207	Body Weight Exercises vs Lifting Heavy BODYBUILDING SUPPLEMENTS High Quality Supplements For Bodybuilders and Athletes. www.ironmaglabs.com My wife and a couple of her friends recently hired a personnal trainer. The workouts he puts them on consist almost entirely of body weight exercises and exercises using an exercise ball. Since they started this, none of them want to do any heavy weight lifting. Their goal right now is weight loss and their diets are pretty good. They go to yoga several times a week and run stairs for half an hour every Sunday. Now they added more body weight exercises to help build strength. I just thought with what they were doing already, lifting heavy would be more beneficial to them... Also on that note, I see the exercises this trainer has them on. They are mostly exercises on an exercise ball... you know the ones that would work a lot of core muscles. I have never really done these types of exercises. I have been focusing on lifting heavy with exercises like squats, bench presses, seated rows, etc (not a lot of isolation work). I have pretty much been ignoring exercises that specifically target my core (with the idea that the core will develop also because of the compound movements I do).... Is this a mistake? Should I be doing targetted core work? (I also do Kung Fu 4-5 times a weeks and play hockey twice a week)

09-08-2006, 11:49 AM	#5
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,280	I see you are in Phoenix AZ....I live here also. If you want your wife to get some good training......I know a guy in town that can help you out (it's me).
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! http://ivonneberkowitz.blogspot.com/....check out Ivonne's new blog! Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

09-08-2006, 11:58 AM	#6
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,280	there are a few things you wife and her friend need to know: 1) the physiology is not that different between a man and a woman. she needs to lift weights at some point in order to make improvements. 2) working the local muscluar system (stabilizing muscles) is very very important. Working the Global muscular system (the muscles involved in large movement) is important also. The most important thing is coordinating the movement between the two systems into something that is efficient, safe and effective. Sitting on the ball and doing BW exercise might be fun...but, it is not, nor should it be, the be all and end all of the program. 3) BW exercises are great. I would rather see her do something like BW squats, push ups, lunges or split squats, planks, etc.....these are basic movements that we not only encounter in everyday life, but also, lead to an increase in metabolic acitivity because the engange a large amount of muscles.
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! http://ivonneberkowitz.blogspot.com/....check out Ivonne's new blog! Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

09-08-2006, 12:23 PM	#10
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,280	ah..cool.
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! http://ivonneberkowitz.blogspot.com/....check out Ivonne's new blog! Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

09-08-2006, 02:26 PM	#17
L Armstrong Member Elite Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Denmark Posts: 140	Lift Weights, Lose Fat For years, the common knowledge has been that if you want to lose fat, you have to do aerobic exercise. But while it is in part true, that belief unfortunately led many women to think that they could skip strength training. Now a new study is changing all that. Researchers from the University of Pennsylvania's Center for Clinical Epidemiology and Biostatistics recently found that strength training — or weight lifting — plays a key role in controlling a woman's weight. They discovered that women who lifted weights just twice a week were able to avoid the slow, one to two pound weight gain per year that's so common in middle age. While that might not sound like a lot, over the years it can really add up. Another plus? Women who lifted weights had healthier hearts. So how does lifting weights help keep you slim? It's simple — strength training builds muscle, and muscle cells burn more calories than fat cells. The more muscle you have, the more calories you burn, 24 hours a day — even when you are asleep! So if you aren't already, make strength training a part of your fitness program. Your efforts will pay off for years to come! What's the link between muscle and metabolism? The metabolic rate - the rate at which the body burns calories - is partly determined by the amount of muscle we have. In general, the more muscle we have, the higher our metabolic rate; the less muscle we have, the lower our metabolic rate. This explains why men, who have a high proportion of muscle, have a faster metabolism than women, and why a 20-year-old has a higher metabolism than a 70-year-old - again, they have more muscle. Ultimately, muscle burns a lot more calories than fat so when we lose muscle, our metabolic rate drops and we burn fewer calories. In fact, research shows that the body loses a proportionately high amount of muscle with a very low calorie intake and this may considerably suppress metabolism by up to 45 percent. This explains why it's crucial to do as much as you can to protect your metabolic rate, especially when you're dieting. And this means dieting sensibly with a suitable, rather than a very low calorie intake so that you lose fat rather than muscle. Is there anything else I can do to stop losing muscle when I'm dieting? As well as making sure you have sufficient calories to burn fat rather than muscle, it's also possible to build muscle, which in turn boosts metabolism. And the way to do this is, of course, to increase the amount of exercise you do. While aerobic activities such as jogging, swimming, fast walking and aerobic classes help to tone muscle and burn fat, strength or resistance training in particular will increase the amount of muscle you have in your body. And this is good news because for every extra 1lb of muscle you have, your body uses around an extra 50 calories a day! This means an extra 10lb of muscle will burn roughly an extra 500 calories a day without you doing anything - and that's a sufficient amount to lose 1lb in a week. Show your wife this!
	MAKE COMPASSION YOUR FASHION & SAY NO 2 FUR

09-08-2006, 12:10 PM	#7
NeilPearson Registered User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 2,207	So should I be adding these core bw exercises into my routine? Or will my large compound weight movement give me enough core development too?

09-08-2006, 01:01 PM	#11
NeilPearson Registered User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 2,207	What kind of stability/rotational work should I be adding? And how do I convince these girls they should be doing some exercises where they would hit failure before 25 reps? Can you point to any links to support this?