Thread: Bill Starr's 5x5 contradictional?

The incarnations I have seen of this program involve periodization, and work at intensity zones that elicit both strength and hypertrophy. Now, keep in mind, the ideal repetition range for hypertrophy is not necessarily 5-12. Really, the ideal intensity zone for hypertrophy is your 5-12RM (70-85% of 1RM or so). They are two different things. Don't confuse the two as is often the case.

In the versions of this program I have seen, and I don't even know what the original is at this point because everyone has some tweaked version of it, involves basically 3 different loading parameters for the squat and big lifts in general. You have a day where you work up to your 5RM over the course of 5 sets escalating in intensity. This is a bit more focused on strength since this is about 85-88% of a person's 1RM, but you also get some volume in that ideal range for hypertrophy during the last 2-3 sets that you do. Then there are days where you do 5x5 using the same weight the entire time. This is more like 80% of your 1RM or so; the focus being more on hypertrophy. Then there is a deload day where you using a lower load (20% less or so), and possibly a lower volume depending on which version of the program you are looking at.

Furthermore, just because 70-85% of your 1RM seems like the ideal intensity zone for muscle hypertrophy, it doesn't mean you can't get ANY working outside of this range. It depends on a lot of things, one important factor being training status. A really advanced trainee is probably not going to get shit out of working at 65% of their 1RM save for improved endurance. A more novice to intermediate trainee might though.

Originally Posted by CowPimp

Furthermore, just because 70-85% of your 1RM seems like the ideal intensity zone for muscle hypertrophy, it doesn't mean you can't get ANY working outside of this range. It depends on a lot of things, one important factor being training status. A really advanced trainee is probably not going to get shit out of working at 65% of their 1RM save for improved endurance. A more novice to intermediate trainee might though.

I did the Mad Cow variant and had great results. However, the advanced lifters said that they couldn't go more than 3 or 4 weeks before hitting the wall. So yeah, it's not so good for advanced lifters.

DOMS,
I've been reading the Mad Cow variation of the Bill Starr 5x5. I just completed a 5x5 routine and deloading this week. The variation of the 5x5 I was given was "balls to the wall" 5 sets of 5 at your max 5RM weight every time. I would perform 2 sets to warm up and then go right to it. If I struggled with getting the 5th rep I would drop down 10 or so pounds the next set and continue. I was doing the following 4 day split:

Chest and Bi's - flat, incline, flys, preacher curls
Shoulders - front military, Arnies, side laterals, shrugs
Back and Tri's - Pull ups, Bent over Rows, Rear Delts, 1-arm DB
Legs - Back Squats, Leg Presses, DeadLifts, seated Curls
Off
Repeat

Prior to this I did a PRRS routine and found that I felt better and made more progress when I had the 80% rep range week and then the 70% Shock week before going back heavy. I did 3 sets of 3 reps during Power, 3 sets of 6-8 reps during RR, and then 3 sets (all supersets with something else) of 12 - 15 during shock

From the Mad Cow variation, I think the build up day and then the deload day may be better than what I was doing? Seeing that you had done this variation, do you recommend it?