The "Official" Personal Trainers Thread

[PWGriffin]

I'm starting this thread because there are obviously quite a few trainers on this site and even a few with PhD's!! I would love to see some training articles posted up, training philosophies, interesting studies being done....or just bitch about your boss or other stupid trainers like I do...

Also get advice on aspects of your clients training...I will be asking questions...

Post up issues you've had with clients and how you corrected them.



First thing I've got right off is......well it finally happened...

My boss hurt someone. They are going to the orthopedist and will likely never come back...blew their knee out...It was an older woman and he had her doing step ups onto a flat bench (kinda high up). He had to help her up and to her car...she yelled at him and said she comes here so these kinds of things WON'T happen. He told her it's probably just a "pinch"

She called this morning and said her knee is huge...

[ponyboy]

Hope he has his insurance paid up - she can sue him for basically a LOT of money. That being said, I hope all of us who are trainers have our asses covered. I've got automatic insurance through my certification body for $3 million if anything happens.

He'll have to do a lot of explaining plus he just lost a customer never mind all the people she will tell. That's why I always err on the side of caution, especially since I tend to deal with a lot of injured people.

[PWGriffin]

Hope he has his insurance paid up - she can sue him for basically a LOT of money. That being said, I hope all of us who are trainers have our asses covered. I've got automatic insurance through my certification body for $3 million if anything happens.

He'll have to do a lot of explaining plus he just lost a customer never mind all the people she will tell. That's why I always err on the side of caution, especially since I tend to deal with a lot of injured people.

yeah I kinda hope she does sue him and put him out of business for good.


First question of the thread


What kind of lower body movements do most of you guys use with say an older client/woman??

I have a lot of woman or new clients start with hip extensions for the glutes and hams..usually with their feet on a swiss ball to increase the ROM. It's actually not as easy as it sounds and it seems to me to be a very safe alternative to deadlifts for older clients or people with a history of back problems. Maybe bodyweight/Medicine ball squats or a lunge of some sort. All my clients absolutely HATE walking lunges I sometimes threaten them with them.

Poneyboy....is ur sig a dave ramsey quote??

[luisfigo_benfic]

I do alot of isolations movement with my clients, if theyre limited with their abilities then i have them do alot of easy stuff on cables, (hip adduction) seated knee raises, (ankle weights) Ball squats with stab. ball ,etc.

[PWGriffin]

So I was asked to visit another studio and fill in for someone monday night. Very interesting, I trained 4 doctors in a row. One of these guys was 65 and could CLEANLY do 15 pull ups.

So all the doctors have been coming for quite sometime and my guess is they are quite accustomed to their training...

One guy tells me he comes twice a week and the workout goes like this..upper body......rest....upper body...

next guy is huge...pretty strong lifts for a 40 year old doctor right...I made a terrible mistake and assumed that he knew how to squat...this doesn't mean that i put 225 on there and said have fun....I put a quarter on each side....and it was the worst squat I have ever seen...I stopped him shortly after he started. His heels came off the ground IMMEDIATELY even though he barely reached the quarter squat height and he looked as if he was having a hard time balancing himself...wow. Back to basics for this guy...I have to help his posterior chain catch up with his quads (he has mostly been doing leg presses/hack squats/leg extensions and that's it I can bet) and probably work on ankle mobility and hip flexibility....he's very tight..

[Deeznuts]

Stray away from compound movements with elderly and beginners.

As far as the knee situation, this is why we have liability forms. However, having an elderly woman do step ups at a 1 1/2 ft. verical isn't real smart. You need to learn your client's limitations and abilities as well as your own before pushing them.

[PWGriffin]

Stray away from compound movements with elderly and beginners.

As far as the knee situation, this is why we have liability forms. However, having an elderly woman do step ups at a 1 1/2 ft. verical isn't real smart. You need to learn your client's limitations and abilities as well as your own before pushing them.

You say stray from compound movements with ederly and beginners...do you mean all compound movements or heavy lower body movements like squats and deadlifts? I don't have any new clients doing heavy deadlifts or put them under a bar to squat...but we do light dumbell work right away, do you tihnk that's bad?? I'm talkin 10-15lbs...teach them how to push and pull...maybe some cable work...throw in a couple bodyweight movements...maybe an aerobic exercise and some core work...

[ponyboy]

You say stray from compound movements with ederly and beginners...do you mean all compound movements or heavy lower body movements like squats and deadlifts? I don't have any new clients doing heavy deadlifts or put them under a bar to squat...but we do light dumbell work right away, do you tihnk that's bad?? I'm talkin 10-15lbs...teach them how to push and pull...maybe some cable work...throw in a couple bodyweight movements...maybe an aerobic exercise and some core work...

Especially with elderly or rank beginner clients I'll make sure they have their movement patterns down fundamentally first with either very light resistance or bodyweight only. Push, pull, squat, lunge (if they can do single leg movements) bend and twist, plus depending on the person flexion and extension of the torso. Especially with the elderly I find doing movements that they will have to do regularly makes a difference plus easy balancing for their CNS. This can be as simple as doing a push-up against a wall for some because they are completely detrained, and doing squats with a ball behind their back so they don't have to worry about balance and only moving within their functional range of motion.

[Dale Mabry]

With nearly all of the elderly I work with, static stretching comes first. I have yet to find an elderly person who like stretching after, and most fell that stretching before make the day better.

I love training Dr's. You would think they could figure out how to apply that stuff, but most of them come to you and say, "You are the expert, have at it." and the ones who have pre-conceived notions lose them quickly.

[CowPimp]

In terms of stuff for the posterior chain for older people, I like supine bridge variations a lot. Birddogs are a great place to start if they can do these, or at least just extending the hip without the arm involved. Hyperextensions are great too (Do them correctly though), and doing them unilaterally is pretty damned hard! If you can get them to do unilateral RDLs after building some kind of strength base, then those are great too. The load on the spine is very low.

However, I must say that I have no problem letting healthy 50 year olds deadlift (Some of them anyway, it obviously depends on the person). I don't load up 315 and tell them to do 1RMs or anything, but I will start them on a rack in a sumo stance with their functional range of motion once I feel comfortable that they have sufficient movement proficiency to do so.

[P-funk]

For elderly people and training.....

i was asked this question by a classmate and this was what I sent them as reply:

I don't really have any books on the subject. There was one that I came across from Human Kinetics called "Functional Fitness for Older Adults" by Patricia Brill. I have it. It is okay. It has some good ideas.

I saw John Graham give a lecture about some of the testing procedures he uses for his older clients that I was able to take a lot from that also.


I mean really, you have to look at the person, evaluate where they are at and know what the need.

Some people are in different places, even though their ages are the same. I mean, I had one guy that was 66yrs old and he was an animal. We worked up to a 200lb back squat, he did quick feet drills and low level box jumps. He was in amazing shape! then, I'll have people that are 50 and complete train wrecks.

There are a few things that I find very important for older clients though:

1) Most of them are extremely week posteriorly. I usually have a higher ratio of pulling movement to pushing movements. Most of their postures are very anterior.

2) they usually have weak calve muscles (hence the reason they shuffle around) so I train their plantar flexors as well as their dorsiflexors.

3) as evident by research (some that I posted, some from the text), the older we get, the more we loose the ability to recruit motor units. So, i like to do some sort of reactive training if I can. This doesn't mean, 42" depth jumps, but, it can be as simple as medicine ball chest passes. just getting them to move quicker can sometimes really make a world of difference, as well as help give them confidence when they are out in the real world. If they are able to bend down, I usually have them throw a chest pass to me and then I'll roll the ball back to them (either center, right or left) and have them react and get the ball.

4) teaching them to stand up is a really important thing. getting those glutes working. Not everyone needs to have a bar on their back. Just squatting down to a chair or bench and learning to stand up can be a work out in and of itself. they can hold DBs or a med. ball for that if they are able to do it properly. One of the tests John Graham used was the get up and go test, where the client sits in a chair, on the go signal, they stand up and walk 10ft. around a cone, and back and sit. That is a timed test.

5) grip. i find that older people usually start to loose grip, so working that with some light grippers can be very helpful.


really, I just look at where they are at, and where they need to be and then i think of things that can help them get better at living everyday.

The most important thing you can do is improve the persons quality of life. Like the 66yr old guy i talked about above. I mean, his main goal was to come in the gym and get huge! he wanted to be this big bodybuilder looking guy. Now, you and i know, at 66, that pretty much is not happening. So, I humored him a little and let him do some bench pressing, and I taught him how to squat and deadlift with good form and he got a kick out of it, and then I gave him the things he needed. In the end, the thing he was most happy with was that he was able to go outside and play soccer with his friends grandchildren, while his friends could only sit there because they had no ability to move or keep up! After that, he really understood what I was trying to do for him.


Hope some of those suggestions help.

[CowPimp]

Good stuff P.

Postural concerns are definitely huge with them. Take someone who is 50 and comes to workout for the first time ever, and has been working a sedentary job for the past 20-30 years. Definitely posture is going to be huge.

Another thing I want to add is that often times flexibility is a huge concern for older clients. I always throw in a little extra stretching and warmup activities for older clients. I also feel soft tissue work is a biggie with them.


I must say though, that older people are sometimes my favorite people to train. They do very little bitching from my experience, and they usually don't question what you have to offer so much. One guy I train is 53, and before he started training where I'm at he had no exercise experience period. I picked him up from another trainer after a few months of training. The guy has a great work ethic and has made some awesome progress since he started working out. He can do 8-10 chinups, deadlift 135 for reps with a trap bar, etc.

[PWGriffin]

Ok....Got into another long argument with my boss. I told him about the meeting I have coming up with the owner/operator of speed sports performance (thx patrick) But just that I was going up there to talk shop and maybe even try and shadow someone a couple times a week as maybe an internship. I told him I wasn't really challenged in my current environment and that I want to learn more about things aside from just "sweating and losing weight". But in his opinion, I haven't "mastered" that aspect of training yet...

I was shadowed by another business owner in 2 different studios and he thinks I'm on point. I want to learn as much as possible as I think it will help tremendously in the future and even help me get through school IMO.



Anyway....what good books have you all read lately?? I have "The new rules of Lifting" by lou schuler and alwyn cosgrove...it was a pretty fun read...I learned a little..but had a good time reading it. I also have "functional training for sports" by michael boyle....what I have read of this is great, but I started studying for my cert around the time I got it so I haven't really sat down to read it cover to cover. Books I would love to check out in the future are "supertraining"...."low back disorders"...and "the book of muscle"....

[P-funk]

supertraining is okay
the science and practice of strength training by zatsiorsky is okay
sports power by dave sandler is okay
jumping into plyometrics by Donald Chu is okay

there are a ton of books out there.

try reading texbooks.

exerise physiology
some kineseology
Diagnosis and Treatment of Movement Impairment Syndromes by Shirly Sharmman is one of the best books I ever read.

The NSCA Essentials of Strength and Conditioning book is okay.

Any of the NASM books are okay....the performance enhancement specialist book, the corrective exercise specialist book, the optimum training book (for personal trainers).

High Performance Sports conditinoing by Bill Foran is okay.


I mean....just read EVERYTHING! lol...really...that is the key. Spend time on pubmed reseraching and learning etc.....there is so much stuff to read.

[PWGriffin]

supertraining is okay
the science and practice of strength training by zatsiorsky is okay
sports power by dave sandler is okay
jumping into plyometrics by Donald Chu is okay

there are a ton of books out there.

try reading texbooks.

exerise physiology
some kineseology
Diagnosis and Treatment of Movement Impairment Syndromes by Shirly Sharmman is one of the best books I ever read.

The NSCA Essentials of Strength and Conditioning book is okay.

Any of the NASM books are okay....the performance enhancement specialist book, the corrective exercise specialist book, the optimum training book (for personal trainers).

High Performance Sports conditinoing by Bill Foran is okay.


I mean....just read EVERYTHING! lol...really...that is the key. Spend time on pubmed reseraching and learning etc.....there is so much stuff to read.

textbooks, wow..that's a GREAT idea. I can practically work on my degree before I start school!! That would put me way ahead of curve. All the hott girls would need tutors too I bet!!

[P-funk]

textbooks, wow..that's a GREAT idea. I can practically work on my degree before I start school!! That would put me way ahead of curve. All the hott girls would need tutors too I bet!!

yea....

here are some that I had read that I liked

NSCA Essentials

Exercise Physiology:Energy, Metabolism and Human Performance; McArdle, Katch, Katch

Sports and Exercise Nutrition; McArdle, Katch, Katch

Exercise Physiology: Theory and Application to Fitness and Performance; Powers, Howley (I like this one better then the above phys. book).

Diagnosis and Treatment of Movement Impairment Syndromes; Shirly Sharmman

Kineseology of the Musculoskeletal: Foundations for Physical Rehabilitation; Neumman




you should also go over and become a member of the NSCA (like $100 a year) because every quarter they send you a copy of both the NSCA Journal of Strength and Conditioning and the NSCA Strength and Conditioning Journal of Research.

[CowPimp]

Low back disorders is a tough read. I'm a few chapters into it, but I kind of put it on hold while I finished this novel I was taking forever to read. I also have classes to study for right now so that is kind of taking precedence. I will get back to reading it soon though.

I like the NSCA journals they send me too. I have a couple waiting to be read right now that I got a couple weeks ago. Supertraining is high up on my list. The Sharmann book that P recommended is high on my list too.

[CowPimp]

Griffin, check out this list:
http://www.ericcressey.com/recommendedresources.html

It has a lot of the stuff already mentioned and then some.

[P-funk]

anatomy trains is supposed to be very good. I need to read that one.

I want to take a look at that Egoscue book he talks about. I remeber watching the show on fittv that Gabrielle Reese hosts, insider training, where they talk to pro athletes and their trainers about their training.

They had NFL guys, Junior Seau and John Lynch talking about Egoscue training that they do in the offseason.

Here is a thread on it for those that don't know what it is, egoscue.

[Yanick]

man, i'd love to read those books. i'm so deep into anatomy, physiology, chemistry etc for my degree its getting to the point where i can't read for entertainment anymore. i have just enough time to read my philosophy stuff and thats about it.

supertraining is a great book though, so is the zatsiorsky (sp?) stuff, but might be a little old. it was cutting edge stuff a couple of years ago but new stuff is coming out all the time.

i hope to get to read all those recommended books as soon as i'm finished with school. i think i need to go into something other than what i'm studying for right now to be truly happy and that is something like training/physical therapy. my degree now will only allow me to make good money with a steady job

[PWGriffin]

man, i'd love to read those books. i'm so deep into anatomy, physiology, chemistry etc for my degree its getting to the point where i can't read for entertainment anymore. i have just enough time to read my philosophy stuff and thats about it.

supertraining is a great book though, so is the zatsiorsky (sp?) stuff, but might be a little old. it was cutting edge stuff a couple of years ago but new stuff is coming out all the time.

i hope to get to read all those recommended books as soon as i'm finished with school. i think i need to go into something other than what i'm studying for right now to be truly happy and that is something like training/physical therapy. my degree now will only allow me to make good money with a steady job

Why don't you go into a fitness related job? There is money to be made for coaches that really know what they're doing. And you might be a happier person doing something you love...that is...if you enjoy working with people and not just training yourself.

What is your degree in now?

I have an update on the woman who hurt her knee doing step ups onto a flat bench...shortly after she hurt it...my boss had her get on the eliptical to "work it out." A few clients have completely lost confidence in him and one isn't coming back.

Great link Pimp. My work is cut out for me.

What kinds of exercises do you all like for aerobic conditioning??

[Yanick]

Why don't you go into a fitness related job? There is money to be made for coaches that really know what they're doing. And you might be a happier person doing something you love...that is...if you enjoy working with people and not just training yourself.

What is your degree in now?

I have an update on the woman who hurt her knee doing step ups onto a flat bench...shortly after she hurt it...my boss had her get on the eliptical to "work it out." A few clients have completely lost confidence in him and one isn't coming back.

Great link Pimp. My work is cut out for me.

What kinds of exercises do you all like for aerobic conditioning??

i'm working towards an Associates in Nursing, eventually to a BS and then i'll go either Nurse Practitioner or Nurse Anesthesist. The job market for nursing is crazy right now, my friend finished her Associates, got licensed and within two weeks had a job where she was making 68k/year. They wanted her bad, but she couldn't work full time because she wants to go further with her education they said she can make her own hours etc as long as she works for them. Its only going to get better in terms of opportunity and money in Nursing.

I'd love to be a trainer, but i tried that once already and it didn't work out to well

on a side note, i looked at CP's link and "The Manual of Structural Kinesiology" is a great read. It lays by my computer at all times (along with two Psych books, a Nutrition text and Rob Faigin's NHE book) and is a pretty detailed read on the structure and function of the musculoskeleton system.

[PWGriffin]

i'm working towards an Associates in Nursing, eventually to a BS and then i'll go either Nurse Practitioner or Nurse Anesthesist. The job market for nursing is crazy right now, my friend finished her Associates, got licensed and within two weeks had a job where she was making 68k/year. They wanted her bad, but she couldn't work full time because she wants to go further with her education they said she can make her own hours etc as long as she works for them. Its only going to get better in terms of opportunity and money in Nursing.

I'd love to be a trainer, but i tried that once already and it didn't work out to well

on a side note, i looked at CP's link and "The Manual of Structural Kinesiology" is a great read. It lays by my computer at all times (along with two Psych books, a Nutrition text and Rob Faigin's NHE book) and is a pretty detailed read on the structure and function of the musculoskeleton system.

Sorry to hear that...what happened if you don't mind?? Just didn't make any money?? I'm facing the same problem right now and are having to make some changes. I don't think it will always be like this though, I need to be in the right place. Ultimately, I want to find a flexible training job that allows me to pursue my own goals and further my education. I may end up being a nurse or a physical therapist one day, heh.

Anyone know WHY nursing is blowing up right now??

[Yanick]

Sorry to hear that...what happened if you don't mind?? Just didn't make any money?? I'm facing the same problem right now and are having to make some changes. I don't think it will always be like this though, I need to be in the right place. Ultimately, I want to find a flexible training job that allows me to pursue my own goals and further my education. I may end up being a nurse or a physical therapist one day, heh.

Anyone know WHY nursing is blowing up right now??

i didn't make any money at all being a trainer. in hindsight i guess it was mostly my fault but i was kindda turned off by the industry after seeing the fucking morons that are successful. the only good thing was that i met some very smart and cool people and learned a shit load of info in 6 months. if i knew that i would meet more people like that being a trainer at a gym around my area i would be open to the idea, however from what i hear, read, and see most of the trainers are dumbfucks who don't know their ass from a hole in the ground.

i think nursing is blowing up because one of the generations that you always hear about (baby boomers or Gen X or w/e) is at the threshold of being old/sick. Hospitals and other medical establishments are very understaffed and backed up. Go to any big city emergency room and you will see what i mean. its already pretty bad (or good if you are going to be a nurse) and with time its going to get worse as people are living longer yet getting less and less healthy.

[P-funk]

i didn't make any money at all being a trainer. in hindsight i guess it was mostly my fault but i was kindda turned off by the industry after seeing the fucking morons that are successful. the only good thing was that i met some very smart and cool people and learned a shit load of info in 6 months. if i knew that i would meet more people like that being a trainer at a gym around my area i would be open to the idea, however from what i hear, read, and see most of the trainers are dumbfucks who don't know their ass from a hole in the ground.

i think nursing is blowing up because one of the generations that you always hear about (baby boomers or Gen X or w/e) is at the threshold of being old/sick. Hospitals and other medical establishments are very understaffed and backed up. Go to any big city emergency room and you will see what i mean. its already pretty bad (or good if you are going to be a nurse) and with time its going to get worse as people are living longer yet getting less and less healthy.

Dude, if I were you I would seriously (after your associates, when you have a job part time making money) think about working on a degree as a Surgical Assistant, specializing in othopedic surgery. You will get to assist in some cool surgerys. I talked to an orthodedic surgeon about it and he said his SA works from mon-thurs (they only do surgey on tues and thurs and then mon and wed they are in the office seeing patients) and gets six figures for a 4 day work week. Plus, given your training back ground, you could easily take most of those peeps and do re-hab post op and make a pretty penny. just something to think about. I believe they have a good program at Hunter College and I am almost positiv their is one at Cornell Medical School on the Upper east side.

[PWGriffin]

What kinds of exercises do you all like for aerobic conditioning??

I think this was overlooked....

[P-funk]

I think this was overlooked....

interval work/tempo runs
high intensity sprints
some long duration work (with the general "pop" clients, not the athletes that are in short duration events)

[PWGriffin]

interval work/tempo runs
high intensity sprints
some long duration work (with the general "pop" clients, not the athletes that are in short duration events)

thx, this is pretty much what I've been doing, but was open to suggestions.

Update on the lady that hurt her knee...she has torn her miniscus (sp?) and is going to have to have surgery and do physical therapy. I actually spoke to her on the phone today and she started to cry and I almost cried with her.

The exact exercise he had her doing resembles a one legged squat off the side of a flat bench....she is 45 and a little overweight...she's had problems with the other knee but not the one that was injured. The knee she hurt was not the one on the flat bench...but the one making contact with the ground. Could this have been avoided?? Was the exercise the ill-advised?? If yes, what's ur reasoning...IMO, static or stationary lunges would've been a better choice...and until they could actually hold weight in their hands comfortably and confidently would I ever consider going to an exercise with such a high vertical. Even then, I prolly wouldn't do it...

[Dale Mabry]

Too many variables...How is her warm-up, how long has she been training, how overweight, can she squat on 2 legs properly?

I have clients that would probably be considered high risk doing 1-leg bench squats, but that is typically after a thorough introduction to regular squats, balance training and then progression from split squat/stationary lunges, alternating lunges, walking lunges, etc...

If she tore her miniscus and it wasn't a freak accident like a slip, she obviously had no business doing them.

With new folk, I typically progress through a session during the first couple of weeks like this...

1)Dynamic warm-up
2)Balance
3)Resistance Training
4)Conditioning (If they don't do it on their own)
5)Core stuff
6)Stretch

Eventually balance is incorporated into the dynamic warm-up, and for fogies over the age of 50, I static stretch during the dynamic warm-up, this has always worked better for some reason. For the first few sessions, I will just get their squat form down as the leg movement, and then add in a push and a pull to finish it off.

[CowPimp]

Did he use a good progression wth her? Like Dale said, once bilateral squatting is covered, split squats are a good way to start with unilateral lower body movements. That's the first one I use with clients. I then progress to lunges from there. Eventually I try to get them to do Bulgarian squats. Once their strength is up high enough I might have them try one legged squats on a bench, but most people aren't there. I have some of the least dedicated clients in the industry I think, or "share" them with other people so I don't have full control.