Thread: When training for strength...

Originally Posted by the OMU

should you still eat as much as u do when training hypertrophy? Im curious if you'll lose muscle if you dont since not eating as much for muscle training may cause atrophy.

Training for strength while in a caloric surplus would yeild some gains in muscle more than likely. If you don't want to gain weight and size while lifting, then just eat enough to maintain ur bodyweight. Muscle atrophy should only occur if you stop lifting or go into a caloric deficit.

Good answer PW. I always figure if I am going to lift for strength, I want to be sure to eat enough and get enough positive foods into me. I'd rather go over then be under your maintenence level.

Originally Posted by the OMU

should you still eat as much as u do when training hypertrophy? Im curious if you'll lose muscle if you dont since not eating as much for muscle training may cause atrophy.

You could lose muscle while strength training if you are in a caloric deficit. That's why you want to make sure you lose the weight gradually, keep a high protein intake, eat very frequently, and keep lifting heavy. Do all of that and you should minimize any muscle loss while cutting.

If you are trying to gain muscle and strength at the same time, then train for strength and eat a caloric surplus. Most strength training programs involve accessory work that is moderate to high volume at an intensity level sufficient to cause hypertrophy anyway.

Ok so aside from my question, can lifting heavy weights in fewer reps (for strength training) really increase the volume of an exercise? I thought u would need to increase your sets and some other shit like that.

Are there any other ways to increase the volume of an exercise or is it just increasing the sets and reps of an exercise?

Originally Posted by the OMU

should you still eat as much as u do when training hypertrophy? Im curious if you'll lose muscle if you dont since not eating as much for muscle training may cause atrophy.

Strength training and hypertrophy are the same thing...muscle gets stronger muscle gets bigger. Eat!!!!!

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

Strength training and hypertrophy are the same thing...muscle gets stronger muscle gets bigger. Eat!!!!!

But if he doesn't WANT to get bigger, he could eat maintenance level cals and still become stronger with his training geared in the right direction correct?

Gaining strength without making large gains in size means you're looking for greater muscle density. Make sure you're lifting heavy but you want more rep stamina and enough reps to really make a difference.

Lifting low reps, high weight, with a calorie surplus is a baseline strategy for gaining size, but if you're looking for just strength then eat for maintenance only, and up your protein balance while lowering your fat, keep your carbs about the same. A good idea for strength is to start with your heaviest set and work your way down so that you're getting all of your reps out on each set. Make sense? So instead of a rep tree like 12-10-8-6 increasing weight each time you'll have more like 10-10-12-12 decreasing the weight.

I could go into more depth about Power lifting for fast twitch and all that, but just keep all that in mind as far as your diet goes.

Oh and on another note, starting with the heaviest set means you need to be completely warmed up before hand, I suggest reading the guide to a proper warmup for some good tips on that.

Originally Posted by Plateau_Max

Gaining strength without making large gains in size means you're looking for greater muscle density. Make sure you're lifting heavy but you want more rep stamina and enough reps to really make a difference.

Lifting low reps, high weight, with a calorie surplus is a baseline strategy for gaining size, but if you're looking for just strength then eat for maintenance only, and up your protein balance while lowering your fat, keep your carbs about the same. A good idea for strength is to start with your heaviest set and work your way down so that you're getting all of your reps out on each set. Make sense? So instead of a rep tree like 12-10-8-6 increasing weight each time you'll have more like 10-10-12-12 decreasing the weight.

I could go into more depth about Power lifting for fast twitch and all that, but just keep all that in mind as far as your diet goes.

Oh and on another note, starting with the heaviest set means you need to be completely warmed up before hand, I suggest reading the guide to a proper warmup for some good tips on that.

Alright so you're saying that i would gain more size/hypertrophy with compound exercises if i did them in low reps then in higher reps as long as long as i eat a calorie surplus? Usually i do 7-9 reps when db shoulder pressing so will i get more overall shoulder thickness if i do them around the 3-6 reps range?

Dammit has no one heard of neuromuscular efficiency?? You don't have to be big to be strong. And you don't have to get bigger to get stronger. It has nothing to do with muscle density.

If you don't lift with enough volume sufficient for hypertrophy and aren't in a caloric surplus but lift heavy enough and provide the CNS with enough recovery between bouts of exercise you can provoke neural adaptations and perhaps increase MU recruitment.

Originally Posted by PWGriffin

Dammit has no one heard of neuromuscular efficiency?? You don't have to be big to be strong. And you don't have to get bigger to get stronger. It has nothing to do with muscle density.

If you don't lift with enough volume sufficient for hypertrophy and aren't in a caloric surplus but lift heavy enough and provide the CNS with enough recovery between bouts of exercise you can provoke neural adaptations and perhaps increase MU recruitment.

For you disbelievers, take 140-180 BW olympic and powerlifters as an example. You have people lifting double and triple BW by neural efficiency, not weight gain.

Maintain you calories and you will maintain your weight. Force your body to adapt neurally to overcome the new stress in the form of increased weight on your exercises.

Originally Posted by Plateau_Max

Gaining strength without making large gains in size means you're looking for greater muscle density. Make sure you're lifting heavy but you want more rep stamina and enough reps to really make a difference.

Lifting low reps, high weight, with a calorie surplus is a baseline strategy for gaining size, but if you're looking for just strength then eat for maintenance only, and up your protein balance while lowering your fat, keep your carbs about the same. A good idea for strength is to start with your heaviest set and work your way down so that you're getting all of your reps out on each set. Make sense? So instead of a rep tree like 12-10-8-6 increasing weight each time you'll have more like 10-10-12-12 decreasing the weight.

I could go into more depth about Power lifting for fast twitch and all that, but just keep all that in mind as far as your diet goes.

Oh and on another note, starting with the heaviest set means you need to be completely warmed up before hand, I suggest reading the guide to a proper warmup for some good tips on that.

I don't really agree with this advice. Getting stronger without weight gain is not about increasing muscle density. I don't even know what that is, unless you are referring to myofibrilar hypertrophy, which still involves muscle growth. Strength gains without size gains are the result of neuromuscular efficiency as Griffin said. You can recruit a greater percentage of available motor units, their firing rate improves (Rate coding), motor unit synchrnization improves, co-contraction decreases, and intermuscular coordination improves as well. I would also imagine that enzyme concentrations for proteins involved in the phosphagen energy system might also improve.

Pyramids are not the only way to train, so suggesting a way of alternating the pyramid loading wave to provoke increased strength gains is too specific. The best way to improve neuromuscular efficiency is to incorporate maximal effort and dynamic effort training into your program, assuming you are past the beginner or early intermediate stage where low to moderate intensity weights are sufficienct to invoke neural adaptations. You can read more about this in the sticky I wrote on designing resistance training programs.

Originally Posted by Squaggleboggin

For you disbelievers, take 140-180 BW olympic and powerlifters as an example. You have people lifting double and triple BW by neural efficiency, not weight gain.
.

Wrong!!! It's called genetics...they are light and strong because they were born that way not because of how they trained.

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

Wrong!!! It's called genetics...they are light and strong because they were born that way not because of how they trained.

...

Are you saying that it's not possible to train exclusively for strength?

Originally Posted by PWGriffin

Dammit has no one heard of neuromuscular efficiency?? You don't have to be big to be strong. And you don't have to get bigger to get stronger. It has nothing to do with muscle density.

If you don't lift with enough volume sufficient for hypertrophy and aren't in a caloric surplus but lift heavy enough and provide the CNS with enough recovery between bouts of exercise you can provoke neural adaptations and perhaps increase MU recruitment.

For sure.. You don't have to get big(ger) to get/be strong(er). At my powerlifting meet, there were some pretty small guys there, but one of them had a bigger squat than me, another had a bigger bench than me, but at the same time, I deadlifted more than many people in the 220-275lbs weight classes.

Originally Posted by PWGriffin

...

Are you saying that it's not possible to train exclusively for strength?

Yes.

Originally Posted by Seanp156

For sure.. You don't have to get big(ger) to get/be strong(er). At my powerlifting meet, there were some pretty small guys there, but one of them had a bigger squat than me, another had a bigger bench than me, but at the same time, I deadlifted more than many people in the 220-275lbs weight classes.

Alot of this has to do with genetics in the first place.

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

Yes.

so you think a person can't get stronger without getting bigger?

I am positive a person can get stronger without getting bigger.

Originally Posted by PWGriffin

so you think a person can't get stronger without getting bigger?

Yes, it goes against all science. Sure you can get a tiny bit stronger by learning form and things like that but over the years to get stronger you have to get bigger.

I agree with Foreman .

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

Yes, it goes against all science. Sure you can get a tiny bit stronger by learning form and things like that but over the years to get stronger you have to get bigger.

I also agree with this. You need more muscle mass to support a greater amount of weight.

http://www.unm.edu/~lkravitz/Article...pertrophy.html

http://muscle.ucsd.edu/musintro/hypertrophy.shtml

i know i was stuck on all of my lifts about 2months ago. at the time i weighed 155-160lbs and then i clean bulked to 180lbs and my strength gains went through the roof!

I would like to hear P and CP comment on this.

Originally Posted by Double D

I would like to hear P and CP comment on this.

I wouldnt

Shocking.

Originally Posted by Double D

Shocking.