Military press - with a bar or on the Smith machine?

vortrit · 11-22-2006, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

It is the complete opposite movement. read my last post. think about the concentric and eccentric of each of those exercises. they are in opposition.

Right. That makes sence.

Either way, I've noticed WAY better ab development since adding good mornings to my routine, which Cowpimp seems to suggest a lot.

I guess it's time to stay away from the ab machine, and definatly the smith although I rarley use the smith machine anyway...

As I said though, this one guy at one of my gyms tells me how great the smith is for shoulder pressing. It's hard to argue with him because he's easily 3X my size. I guess I will have to barbell shoulder press when he's not looking.

AKIRA · 11-22-2006, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vortrit

Right. That makes sence.

Either way, I've noticed WAY better ab development since adding good mornings to my routine, which Cowpimp seems to suggest a lot.

I guess it's time to stay away from the ab machine, and definatly the smith although I rarley use the smith machine anyway...

As I said though, this one guy at one of my gyms tells me how great the smith is for shoulder pressing. It's hard to argue with him because he's easily 3X my size. I guess I will have to barbell shoulder press when he's not looking.

Mr. Florida at my gym is NEVER seen doing any free weight movements. Hes always on machines or the fucking smith machine. He even recommends the movements for his clients.

The guys that workout with him follow the same workouts he does and theyre not much smaller.

I just dont get it. I find myself at one point arguing with him or someone else about free weights vs. machines.

vortrit · 11-22-2006, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKIRA

Mr. Florida at my gym is NEVER seen doing any free weight movements. Hes always on machines or the fucking smith machine. He even recommends the movements for his clients.

The guys that workout with him follow the same workouts he does and theyre not much smaller.

I just dont get it. I find myself at one point arguing with him or someone else about free weights vs. machines.

Well, as I've said. I've packed on WAY more mass in a shorter time using free weights. I did use the smith, etc., for a long time and I did grow, but I ended up dropping it, at the reccomendations of people of this board, and I've grown 2 1/2 X (at least) faster.

You can't argue with results...

Well, actually some people can.

PWGriffin · 11-22-2006, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKIRA

Mr. Florida at my gym is NEVER seen doing any free weight movements. Hes always on machines or the fucking smith machine. He even recommends the movements for his clients.

The guys that workout with him follow the same workouts he does and theyre not much smaller.

I just dont get it. I find myself at one point arguing with him or someone else about free weights vs. machines.

Does he recommend test and deca and dbol and growth to his clients as well? Cuz that is DEFINITELY workin for him!!

**CowPimp** · 11-22-2006, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vortrit

Right. That makes sence.

Either way, I've noticed WAY better ab development since adding good mornings to my routine, which Cowpimp seems to suggest a lot.

I guess it's time to stay away from the ab machine, and definatly the smith although I rarley use the smith machine anyway...

As I said though, this one guy at one of my gyms tells me how great the smith is for shoulder pressing. It's hard to argue with him because he's easily 3X my size. I guess I will have to barbell shoulder press when he's not looking.

I like good mornings, but make sure you take into account the risk factor. For a reference, I have had one client do good mornings for a couple of weeks with very submaximal weight. That was it.

PWGriffin · 11-22-2006, 08:03 PM

I think uber light good mornings are a great way of teaching people to keep their back tight and shoulders up....A lot of my clients can't even do RDL's with their own bodyweight without serious rounding either in the lumbar or thoracic region...

**P-funk** · 11-22-2006, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PWGriffin

I think uber light good mornings are a great way of teaching people to keep their back tight and shoulders up....A lot of my clients can't even do RDL's with their own bodyweight without serious rounding either in the lumbar or thoracic region...

I teach 1-legged good mornings with a broom stick as a precursor to 1-legged RDLs, for some people.

camarosuper6 · 11-22-2006, 08:08 PM

I dont see anything wrong with the smith.

I use it (albeit sparingly) but I use it for the occasional Military Press and Incline Press for chest. Very helpful if I dont have a spotter, and my gains have been solid.

But to each their own.

Burner02 · 11-22-2006, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

this was just covered in another thread.

The idea of an ab machine is the silliest thing I have ever heard. Just think about it....the muscles that provide the stability to your body are now asked to not work in that fashion at all......doesn't that seem stupid....I mean really. just think about it.

what???? You don't think the AB LOUNGE is a viable tool? I want my 6 minute abs, dammit!

<note to self: scratch Ab Lounger off Christmas wish list>

vortrit · 11-23-2006, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

I like good mornings, but make sure you take into account the risk factor. For a reference, I have had one client do good mornings for a couple of weeks with very submaximal weight. That was it.

I think I generally use about 10 - 15 pounds...

KataKlysm954 · 11-23-2006, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seanp156

Where I work, this is often the case... I see some people doing quarter squats in the smith machine... I've learned to just ignore it anymore...

hmm.... and yeah a diablo 2 screen shot for your pic....

JimSnow · 11-23-2006, 01:08 PM

I dunno. I suppose I'm a "freeweight person". I don't use machines. When I use cables - it's rope, maybe pulleys w/freeweights attached.

I think machines have their places.

One of my dreams is to build a rock wall with the heaviest rocks I can handle from a river at the base of my property over a great deal of time. I dont use machines to train for that. I use rocks.

JerseyDevil · 11-23-2006, 08:48 PM

Machines have their place, but they can never REplace free weight compound movements. I like some cables, some Hammer Strength, 45 degree leg press, that's about it.

As far as big dudes using machines exclusively, that's just drugs and laziness in action.

Plateau_Max · 11-24-2006, 04:34 AM

There's a few things to consider when you see people dominate machines. In the gym we have set up over here they're two completely different sides of the building. People who are rats like me have taken to calling the two sides "the free world" and "the machine world" I guess it's a play off the matrix or something, but anyway...

CP do you recommend seated or standing good mornings? I like to start people off with seated because I like them but people are usually turned off real quick by how akward the standing ones can be. I do standing good mornings personally and use the EZ bar since it sort of navigates around my neck a bit.

On to the debate. The Smith Machine can be alright if used properly, I see a deal of people using it for squats so they can place their feet farther forward and have their back vertical through the whole movement. While this does work the posterior aspect of the leg more I feel it removes much needed gluteus activity, especially when that's their only form of squat... as in they're not pairing front squats to activate the quad region.

For military press I would say if you need it for that extra helping hand on balance then ONLY use it for anterior presses only where you can easily lean forward and straighten your body out as the bar goes above your head where it needs to be at the end of the movement. Posteriors you need to use the free bar and you need to have a spotter since this move can go easily out of whack and the last thing you want is a bar pulling your arms back behind you really fast (ouch).

quick question AKIRA sir, does the smith Mr. Florida use have horizontal freedom? and does he do core specific training since all he uses is machines which take away from the need for core strength?

**CowPimp** · 11-24-2006, 01:32 PM

I've never really had people do seated good mornings, though I have done them myself. Like I said, I don't generally have people do standing good mornings either. I have done both, but have used the standing version much more.

11-22-2006, 08:08 PM	#38
camarosuper6 Back Home In SOCAL Elite Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: California Posts: 3,325	I dont see anything wrong with the smith. I use it (albeit sparingly) but I use it for the occasional Military Press and Incline Press for chest. Very helpful if I dont have a spotter, and my gains have been solid. But to each their own.
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11-23-2006, 01:08 PM	#42
JimSnow Registered User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: NC, USA Posts: 625 Photos: 2	I dunno. I suppose I'm a "freeweight person". I don't use machines. When I use cables - it's rope, maybe pulleys w/freeweights attached. I think machines have their places. One of my dreams is to build a rock wall with the heaviest rocks I can handle from a river at the base of my property over a great deal of time. I dont use machines to train for that. I use rocks.
	"Wait 'till you see special photos of my old man butt in April!"

11-24-2006, 04:34 AM	#44
Plateau_Max I enjoy SkyDiving Elite Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wichita, KS Posts: 865	There's a few things to consider when you see people dominate machines. In the gym we have set up over here they're two completely different sides of the building. People who are rats like me have taken to calling the two sides "the free world" and "the machine world" I guess it's a play off the matrix or something, but anyway... CP do you recommend seated or standing good mornings? I like to start people off with seated because I like them but people are usually turned off real quick by how akward the standing ones can be. I do standing good mornings personally and use the EZ bar since it sort of navigates around my neck a bit. On to the debate. The Smith Machine can be alright if used properly, I see a deal of people using it for squats so they can place their feet farther forward and have their back vertical through the whole movement. While this does work the posterior aspect of the leg more I feel it removes much needed gluteus activity, especially when that's their only form of squat... as in they're not pairing front squats to activate the quad region. For military press I would say if you need it for that extra helping hand on balance then ONLY use it for anterior presses only where you can easily lean forward and straighten your body out as the bar goes above your head where it needs to be at the end of the movement. Posteriors you need to use the free bar and you need to have a spotter since this move can go easily out of whack and the last thing you want is a bar pulling your arms back behind you really fast (ouch). quick question AKIRA sir, does the smith Mr. Florida use have horizontal freedom? and does he do core specific training since all he uses is machines which take away from the need for core strength?
	"Years of hard work for only a single moment of perfection is a worthy trade." - Myself

11-24-2006, 01:32 PM	#45
CowPimp Fueled by Testosterone Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 15,400	I've never really had people do seated good mornings, though I have done them myself. Like I said, I don't generally have people do standing good mornings either. I have done both, but have used the standing version much more.
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11-23-2006, 08:48 PM	#43
JerseyDevil Done Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Southern, NJ Posts: 5,176	Machines have their place, but they can never REplace free weight compound movements. I like some cables, some Hammer Strength, 45 degree leg press, that's about it. As far as big dudes using machines exclusively, that's just drugs and laziness in action.