Question about hypertrophy......

the_general64 · 11-23-2006, 01:49 PM

can someone explain how working out in the 7-10 rep range with 1 min rest intervals promotes hypertrophy? I've been testing this out lately and it seems like i'm getting a cardio workout, burning more calories....?

Spud · 11-23-2006, 04:30 PM

I think you need to work on your cardio... 1 minute seems like an eternity to wait, for me. As fasr as I remember reading, most hypertrophy routines recommend 30-45 seconds.

**CowPimp** · 11-23-2006, 09:00 PM

No one fully understands what is the reason and cause for hypertrophy. It has something to do with mechanical loading, may have to do with workload, it may have to do with power output (Assuming a certain intensity), etc.

swordfish · 11-23-2006, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

No one fully understands what is the reason and cause for hypertrophy. It has something to do with mechanical loading, may have to do with workload, it may have to do with power output (Assuming a certain intensity), etc.

hypertrophy occurs when there is a stress on the muscles and they must adapt........ resistance is probably a better word....... the more resistance on the muscle the bigger and stronger it has to get to adapt to the stress otherwise it tears....

PWGriffin · 11-24-2006, 04:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swordfish

hypertrophy occurs when there is a stress on the muscles and they must adapt........ resistance is probably a better word....... the more resistance on the muscle the bigger and stronger it has to get to adapt to the stress otherwise it tears....

That still doesn't tell someone how they can induce hypertrophy specifically, that's what cowpimp was saying....(the original question was, "why does working in the 7-10 rep range with 1m resting intervals cause hypertrophy?")

I'm sure we are all in agreement that you can cause hypertrophy with resistance training. lol

**Gazhole** · 11-24-2006, 06:37 AM

Its funny that people have broken muscles down to sliding filament theory, but nobody really knows what causes hypertrophy, or what DOMS actually is.

The body is awesome.

Plateau_Max · 11-24-2006, 07:52 AM

We had a pretty good discussion on DOMS and I think there've been some pretty solid theories for it. The main believe structure on hypertrophy is that with an adequate number of reps (usually 8-12 I would say) and shorter rest periods (30-45 seconds) the muscles are fatigued to a greater extent.

With not only getting more weight related strain but combining the induced muscle tear-down with the metabolic enhancing 'fatigue' in supplement sort of doubles up the need for the body to rebuild more muscle fibers.

That's how I see it.

**P-funk** · 11-24-2006, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gazhole

Its funny that people have broken muscles down to sliding filament theory, but nobody really knows what causes hypertrophy, or what DOMS actually is.

The body is awesome.

look at the name....sliding filament THEORY. Even that is just a theory.

To add to others....they moderate reps with short rest also increase mechanical work, which has been shown to raise growth hormone levels.

swordfish · 11-24-2006, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PWGriffin

That still doesn't tell someone how they can induce hypertrophy specifically, that's what cowpimp was saying....(the original question was, "why does working in the 7-10 rep range with 1m resting intervals cause hypertrophy?")

I'm sure we are all in agreement that you can cause hypertrophy with resistance training. lol

i guesss the specific tut and aut

**Gazhole** · 11-24-2006, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

look at the name....sliding filament THEORY. Even that is just a theory.

Exactly! We dont even know THAT for sure. No matter how much we think we know, theres that much again that we dont know or arent sure about.

Its terrific :P.

**CowPimp** · 11-24-2006, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swordfish

hypertrophy occurs when there is a stress on the muscles and they must adapt........ resistance is probably a better word....... the more resistance on the muscle the bigger and stronger it has to get to adapt to the stress otherwise it tears....

It's not just more tension though (Which I think is the word you are looking for). Otherwise, doing singles all the time would be the way to go.

**Mudge** · 11-24-2006, 01:47 PM

Every big guys I know trains with very short rest, or no rest (drop sets in sets of 3, then rest, then another movement, then back to drop sets - rinse, repeat). Lots of volume, usually one heavy week, one lights, never the same movements in two workouts consecutively - etc. Lots of instinctive training based on how they feel, and of course, lots of food.

How long have you been trying this to say it doesn't work? I would also note that 7-10 reps all the time is one thing these guys swear against, you never force yourself into a set rep range. Neither does Dennis James, you do what you can do, and there is lots of training to failure. Many people train many different ways, but the local guys that I know of who produce size results, often naturally for half a year at a time, just train balls to the wall and there is very little science behind it. Train hard, train lots of volume, and train based on instinct - that is the science behind it and nothing more. There is no BS talk about rep ranges or how many sets, you do what you do and thats it. One set might be 15 reps, one might be 6, and so on. Push/pull, pre-exhaust, whatever they feel like doing that day they do.

**Dale Mabry** · 11-24-2006, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gazhole

or what DOMS actually is.

He's a Republican and a gentleman.

Not to hijack the thread or anything, but does anyone else get the feeling, when they have DOMS, that a majority of the problems occur while you sleep. It is almost as if the next day, since you slept with an abnormal length/tension relationship, that the myosin heads repair improperly and you have myosin heads attaching to the incorrect actin filament and breaking when you move to establish a proper relationship.

As for hypertrophy at that rep range, I would imagine the biological events are ridiculously complex, too.

swordfish · 11-24-2006, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mudge

Every big guys I know trains with very short rest, or no rest (drop sets in sets of 3, then rest, then another movement, then back to drop sets - rinse, repeat). Lots of volume, usually one heavy week, one lights, never the same movements in two workouts consecutively - etc. Lots of instinctive training based on how they feel, and of course, lots of food.

How long have you been trying this to say it doesn't work? I would also note that 7-10 reps all the time is one thing these guys swear against, you never force yourself into a set rep range. Neither does Dennis James, you do what you can do, and there is lots of training to failure. Many people train many different ways, but the local guys that I know of who produce size results, often naturally for half a year at a time, just train balls to the wall and there is very little science behind it. Train hard, train lots of volume, and train based on instinct - that is the science behind it and nothing more. There is no BS talk about rep ranges or how many sets, you do what you do and thats it. One set might be 15 reps, one might be 6, and so on. Push/pull, pre-exhaust, whatever they feel like doing that day they do.

ill take intensity over volume......

and so will this guy......

http://www.illpumpyouup.com/articles...rian-YAtes.gif

PWGriffin · 11-24-2006, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swordfish

ill take intensity over volume......

and so will this guy......

http://www.illpumpyouup.com/articles...rian-YAtes.gif

define "intensity"

swordfish · 11-24-2006, 05:54 PM

going balls to wall(training PAST FAILURE by rp, fr, negs.... at the end) on very few sets and very few exercises.

**Mudge** · 11-24-2006, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swordfish

ill take intensity over volume......

I am talking about local people who produced results for themselves, do you have over 20 inch arms? If so tell us how YOU did it. There are many roads to the same destination, but finding the road which works for YOU is the only one that matters. Dorian's road, or Mike Mentzer, or Mike Francois', might not be the road for everyone else.

PWGriffin · 11-24-2006, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swordfish

going balls to wall(training PAST FAILURE by rp, fr, negs.... at the end) on very few sets and very few exercises.

ok, that's not intensity.

Intensity = how much weight you are using in relation to your 1RM.

It's not how "hard" you train.

So the people who train at the highest levels of intensity are in fact, powerlifters....Bodybuilders lift at relatively low to moderate levels of intensity...even your hero dorian there.

**Mudge** · 11-24-2006, 06:52 PM

Dorian did lift relatively heavy, he spent a lot of time in the 6-8 range. Many BBs lift higher reps almost religiously.

PWGriffin · 11-24-2006, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mudge

Dorian did lift relatively heavy, he spent a lot of time in the 6-8 range. Many BBs lift higher reps almost religiously.

I will give you that 6-8 reps is high ...for a bodybuilder.

swordfish · 11-24-2006, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mudge

I am talking about local people who produced results for themselves, do you have over 20 inch arms? If so tell us how YOU did it. There are many roads to the same destination, but finding the road which works for YOU is the only one that matters. Dorian's road, or Mike Mentzer, or Mike Francois', might not be the road for everyone else.

no but ive got almost 17's cold... im 19 and natural weighing around 200.

anyway i understand what your saying but i think A LOT of people can benefit from increased intensity and decreased volume and the reason is say this is because most people have just grabbed their routine from a bodybuilding mag......... they probably have never tried a TRUE INTENSE balls to the wall workout....

swordfish · 11-24-2006, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PWGriffin

ok, that's not intensity.

Intensity = how much weight you are using in relation to your 1RM.

It's not how "hard" you train.

So the people who train at the highest levels of intensity are in fact, powerlifters....Bodybuilders lift at relatively low to moderate levels of intensity...even your hero dorian there.

you can make a set of 70% of your max much more intense that 90% by incorporating intensity techniques that i mentioned.....

dorian trained at AN EXTREMELY HIGH intensity......

**Dale Mabry** · 11-24-2006, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swordfish

you can make a set of 70% of your max much more intense that 90% by incorporating intensity techniques that i mentioned.....

dorian trained at AN EXTREMELY HIGH intensity......

That is relatively speaking. WRT weight training, intensity is defined by % of your 1RM. I get what you are saying, but that is more of a relative intensity.

11-23-2006, 01:49 PM	#1
the_general64 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 171	Question about hypertrophy...... BODYBUILDING SUPPLEMENTS High Quality Supplements For Bodybuilders and Athletes. www.ironmaglabs.com can someone explain how working out in the 7-10 rep range with 1 min rest intervals promotes hypertrophy? I've been testing this out lately and it seems like i'm getting a cardio workout, burning more calories....?

11-23-2006, 04:30 PM	#2
Spud Registered User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Hart House! Posts: 753	I think you need to work on your cardio... 1 minute seems like an eternity to wait, for me. As fasr as I remember reading, most hypertrophy routines recommend 30-45 seconds.
	No Milk, no. Milk is for babies. When you grow up, you have to drink beer. Please read and comment on my journal

11-23-2006, 09:00 PM	#3
CowPimp Fueled by Testosterone Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 15,400	No one fully understands what is the reason and cause for hypertrophy. It has something to do with mechanical loading, may have to do with workload, it may have to do with power output (Assuming a certain intensity), etc.
	The only time it's bad to feel the burn is when you're peeing... CowPimp Picks Up Heavy Shit MySpace YouTube Videos

11-24-2006, 07:52 AM	#7
Plateau_Max I enjoy SkyDiving Elite Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wichita, KS Posts: 865	We had a pretty good discussion on DOMS and I think there've been some pretty solid theories for it. The main believe structure on hypertrophy is that with an adequate number of reps (usually 8-12 I would say) and shorter rest periods (30-45 seconds) the muscles are fatigued to a greater extent. With not only getting more weight related strain but combining the induced muscle tear-down with the metabolic enhancing 'fatigue' in supplement sort of doubles up the need for the body to rebuild more muscle fibers. That's how I see it.
	"Years of hard work for only a single moment of perfection is a worthy trade." - Myself

11-24-2006, 01:47 PM	#12
Mudge Pizza the Hut Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 22,948 Photos: 1	Every big guys I know trains with very short rest, or no rest (drop sets in sets of 3, then rest, then another movement, then back to drop sets - rinse, repeat). Lots of volume, usually one heavy week, one lights, never the same movements in two workouts consecutively - etc. Lots of instinctive training based on how they feel, and of course, lots of food. How long have you been trying this to say it doesn't work? I would also note that 7-10 reps all the time is one thing these guys swear against, you never force yourself into a set rep range. Neither does Dennis James, you do what you can do, and there is lots of training to failure. Many people train many different ways, but the local guys that I know of who produce size results, often naturally for half a year at a time, just train balls to the wall and there is very little science behind it. Train hard, train lots of volume, and train based on instinct - that is the science behind it and nothing more. There is no BS talk about rep ranges or how many sets, you do what you do and thats it. One set might be 15 reps, one might be 6, and so on. Push/pull, pre-exhaust, whatever they feel like doing that day they do.
	Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks

11-24-2006, 05:54 PM	#16
swordfish Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Oregon Posts: 500	going balls to wall(training PAST FAILURE by rp, fr, negs.... at the end) on very few sets and very few exercises.

11-24-2006, 06:52 PM	#19
Mudge Pizza the Hut Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 22,948 Photos: 1	Dorian did lift relatively heavy, he spent a lot of time in the 6-8 range. Many BBs lift higher reps almost religiously.
	Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks