Thread: Question about hypertrophy......

I think you need to work on your cardio... 1 minute seems like an eternity to wait, for me. As fasr as I remember reading, most hypertrophy routines recommend 30-45 seconds.

No one fully understands what is the reason and cause for hypertrophy. It has something to do with mechanical loading, may have to do with workload, it may have to do with power output (Assuming a certain intensity), etc.

Originally Posted by CowPimp

No one fully understands what is the reason and cause for hypertrophy. It has something to do with mechanical loading, may have to do with workload, it may have to do with power output (Assuming a certain intensity), etc.

hypertrophy occurs when there is a stress on the muscles and they must adapt........ resistance is probably a better word....... the more resistance on the muscle the bigger and stronger it has to get to adapt to the stress otherwise it tears....

Originally Posted by swordfish

hypertrophy occurs when there is a stress on the muscles and they must adapt........ resistance is probably a better word....... the more resistance on the muscle the bigger and stronger it has to get to adapt to the stress otherwise it tears....

That still doesn't tell someone how they can induce hypertrophy specifically, that's what cowpimp was saying....(the original question was, "why does working in the 7-10 rep range with 1m resting intervals cause hypertrophy?")

I'm sure we are all in agreement that you can cause hypertrophy with resistance training. lol

Its funny that people have broken muscles down to sliding filament theory, but nobody really knows what causes hypertrophy, or what DOMS actually is.

The body is awesome.

We had a pretty good discussion on DOMS and I think there've been some pretty solid theories for it. The main believe structure on hypertrophy is that with an adequate number of reps (usually 8-12 I would say) and shorter rest periods (30-45 seconds) the muscles are fatigued to a greater extent.

With not only getting more weight related strain but combining the induced muscle tear-down with the metabolic enhancing 'fatigue' in supplement sort of doubles up the need for the body to rebuild more muscle fibers.

That's how I see it.

Originally Posted by Gazhole

Its funny that people have broken muscles down to sliding filament theory, but nobody really knows what causes hypertrophy, or what DOMS actually is.

The body is awesome.

look at the name....sliding filament THEORY. Even that is just a theory.


To add to others....they moderate reps with short rest also increase mechanical work, which has been shown to raise growth hormone levels.

Originally Posted by PWGriffin

That still doesn't tell someone how they can induce hypertrophy specifically, that's what cowpimp was saying....(the original question was, "why does working in the 7-10 rep range with 1m resting intervals cause hypertrophy?")

I'm sure we are all in agreement that you can cause hypertrophy with resistance training. lol

i guesss the specific tut and aut

Originally Posted by P-funk

look at the name....sliding filament THEORY. Even that is just a theory.

Exactly! We dont even know THAT for sure. No matter how much we think we know, theres that much again that we dont know or arent sure about.

Its terrific :P.

Originally Posted by swordfish

hypertrophy occurs when there is a stress on the muscles and they must adapt........ resistance is probably a better word....... the more resistance on the muscle the bigger and stronger it has to get to adapt to the stress otherwise it tears....

It's not just more tension though (Which I think is the word you are looking for). Otherwise, doing singles all the time would be the way to go.

Every big guys I know trains with very short rest, or no rest (drop sets in sets of 3, then rest, then another movement, then back to drop sets - rinse, repeat). Lots of volume, usually one heavy week, one lights, never the same movements in two workouts consecutively - etc. Lots of instinctive training based on how they feel, and of course, lots of food.

How long have you been trying this to say it doesn't work? I would also note that 7-10 reps all the time is one thing these guys swear against, you never force yourself into a set rep range. Neither does Dennis James, you do what you can do, and there is lots of training to failure. Many people train many different ways, but the local guys that I know of who produce size results, often naturally for half a year at a time, just train balls to the wall and there is very little science behind it. Train hard, train lots of volume, and train based on instinct - that is the science behind it and nothing more. There is no BS talk about rep ranges or how many sets, you do what you do and thats it. One set might be 15 reps, one might be 6, and so on. Push/pull, pre-exhaust, whatever they feel like doing that day they do.

Originally Posted by Gazhole

or what DOMS actually is.

He's a Republican and a gentleman.

Not to hijack the thread or anything, but does anyone else get the feeling, when they have DOMS, that a majority of the problems occur while you sleep. It is almost as if the next day, since you slept with an abnormal length/tension relationship, that the myosin heads repair improperly and you have myosin heads attaching to the incorrect actin filament and breaking when you move to establish a proper relationship.

As for hypertrophy at that rep range, I would imagine the biological events are ridiculously complex, too.

Originally Posted by Mudge

Every big guys I know trains with very short rest, or no rest (drop sets in sets of 3, then rest, then another movement, then back to drop sets - rinse, repeat). Lots of volume, usually one heavy week, one lights, never the same movements in two workouts consecutively - etc. Lots of instinctive training based on how they feel, and of course, lots of food.

How long have you been trying this to say it doesn't work? I would also note that 7-10 reps all the time is one thing these guys swear against, you never force yourself into a set rep range. Neither does Dennis James, you do what you can do, and there is lots of training to failure. Many people train many different ways, but the local guys that I know of who produce size results, often naturally for half a year at a time, just train balls to the wall and there is very little science behind it. Train hard, train lots of volume, and train based on instinct - that is the science behind it and nothing more. There is no BS talk about rep ranges or how many sets, you do what you do and thats it. One set might be 15 reps, one might be 6, and so on. Push/pull, pre-exhaust, whatever they feel like doing that day they do.

ill take intensity over volume......


and so will this guy......


http://www.illpumpyouup.com/articles...rian-YAtes.gif

Originally Posted by swordfish

ill take intensity over volume......


and so will this guy......


http://www.illpumpyouup.com/articles...rian-YAtes.gif

define "intensity"

going balls to wall(training PAST FAILURE by rp, fr, negs.... at the end) on very few sets and very few exercises.

Originally Posted by swordfish

ill take intensity over volume......

I am talking about local people who produced results for themselves, do you have over 20 inch arms? If so tell us how YOU did it. There are many roads to the same destination, but finding the road which works for YOU is the only one that matters. Dorian's road, or Mike Mentzer, or Mike Francois', might not be the road for everyone else.

Originally Posted by swordfish

going balls to wall(training PAST FAILURE by rp, fr, negs.... at the end) on very few sets and very few exercises.

ok, that's not intensity.

Intensity = how much weight you are using in relation to your 1RM.

It's not how "hard" you train.

So the people who train at the highest levels of intensity are in fact, powerlifters....Bodybuilders lift at relatively low to moderate levels of intensity...even your hero dorian there.

Dorian did lift relatively heavy, he spent a lot of time in the 6-8 range. Many BBs lift higher reps almost religiously.

Originally Posted by Mudge

Dorian did lift relatively heavy, he spent a lot of time in the 6-8 range. Many BBs lift higher reps almost religiously.

I will give you that 6-8 reps is high ...for a bodybuilder.

Originally Posted by Mudge

I am talking about local people who produced results for themselves, do you have over 20 inch arms? If so tell us how YOU did it. There are many roads to the same destination, but finding the road which works for YOU is the only one that matters. Dorian's road, or Mike Mentzer, or Mike Francois', might not be the road for everyone else.

no but ive got almost 17's cold... im 19 and natural weighing around 200.

anyway i understand what your saying but i think A LOT of people can benefit from increased intensity and decreased volume and the reason is say this is because most people have just grabbed their routine from a bodybuilding mag......... they probably have never tried a TRUE INTENSE balls to the wall workout....

Originally Posted by PWGriffin

ok, that's not intensity.

Intensity = how much weight you are using in relation to your 1RM.

It's not how "hard" you train.

So the people who train at the highest levels of intensity are in fact, powerlifters....Bodybuilders lift at relatively low to moderate levels of intensity...even your hero dorian there.

you can make a set of 70% of your max much more intense that 90% by incorporating intensity techniques that i mentioned.....

dorian trained at AN EXTREMELY HIGH intensity......

Originally Posted by swordfish

you can make a set of 70% of your max much more intense that 90% by incorporating intensity techniques that i mentioned.....

dorian trained at AN EXTREMELY HIGH intensity......

That is relatively speaking. WRT weight training, intensity is defined by % of your 1RM. I get what you are saying, but that is more of a relative intensity.

Originally Posted by PWGriffin

I will give you that 6-8 reps is high ...for a bodybuilder.

That is a very low rep range for a bodybuilder.

Originally Posted by Mudge

That is a very low rep range for a bodybuilder.

that is pretty low... what do you think most bodybuilders train at pw?

Originally Posted by swordfish

that is pretty low... what do you think most bodybuilders train at pw?

The ones I've talked to personally train as low as 8 reps and as high as 12,15, and 20 rep sets. They also use very high volume routines.

If I was to train someone looking for size primarily, I would train them using various rep schemes, mostly moderate in intensity, adequate volume, and high frequency.

When I said "that's pretty high", I meant that's pretty high intensity for a bodybuilder.

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

Not to hijack the thread or anything, but does anyone else get the feeling, when they have DOMS, that a majority of the problems occur while you sleep. It is almost as if the next day, since you slept with an abnormal length/tension relationship, that the myosin heads repair improperly and you have myosin heads attaching to the incorrect actin filament and breaking when you move to establish a proper relationship.

That actually doesnt sound like a bad idea,

its very strange, only some of my muscle groups even get "sore" the evening after I work them, the rest get sore, as described the morning after, some as early as as soon as I get out of bed, others take up to 30 minutes.

this isnt a bad hypothesis, DM, not at all. Im talking myself into believing it more and more

Originally Posted by FishOrCutBait

That actually doesnt sound like a bad idea,

its very strange, only some of my muscle groups even get "sore" the evening after I work them, the rest get sore, as described the morning after, some as early as as soon as I get out of bed, others take up to 30 minutes.

this isnt a bad hypothesis, DM, not at all. Im talking myself into believing it more and more

Actually, I have pretty good insight into this theory....

I used to work in the restaurant biz...waiting tables...I used to go out ALOT during this time too...like every night of the week starting on tuesday. (yeah, TUESDAY). Well days I worked long shifts and/or worked out early...I would get sore late that night...like doms would actually set in before I went to bed. (Legs, especially)

So I think sleep may have little to do with it really...but interesting theory nonetheless.

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

Not to hijack the thread or anything, but does anyone else get the feeling, when they have DOMS, that a majority of the problems occur while you sleep. It is almost as if the next day, since you slept with an abnormal length/tension relationship, that the myosin heads repair improperly and you have myosin heads attaching to the incorrect actin filament and breaking when you move to establish a proper relationship.

For me, I start to feel soreness usually the same day. A lot of people tell me they feel it the next day, or two days later. For me, I very often feel it pretty significantly before I goto bed, though it generally gets worse the next morning.