reps

**Mudge** · 12-01-2006, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BringDaBlitz94

because everyone is tellin me how much benching helps but now ur sayin that it looks ugly since it mostly works ur chest. and do u no any tricep exercises that i culd do at home wit free weights???

Benching is a compound movement it doesn't just hit the chest.

alwaysbelieve1 · 12-01-2006, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mudge

Benching is a compound movement it doesn't just hit the chest.

The closest benching gets to being compound, which it is not since it doesn't incorporate the legs within a proper range of motion, is when you are dumbbell chest pressing(benching style) on the stability ball since that way your scapular is not impeded.

alwaysbelieve1 · 12-01-2006, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StanUk

Yep, this is all too true and is a common occurence.

By the way, in your avatar, you look a lot like Hando from Romper Stomper

I never saw that, but hope that is a good thing.

Oh and one more thing to our curling/benching friend...
The tricep takes up approximately 60% of the arm when compared to the biceps so if you want big arms- train tris.

Now don't get me wrong by thinking I'm saying isolate and train tris exclusively. I am not, by any means. What I mean when I say that is train them by performing movements which incorporate them such as Military/Push presses along with Cleans, etc. just as the biceps are worked very well in Pullups, Rows, etc.

largepkg · 12-01-2006, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alwaysbelieve1

The closest benching gets to being compound, which it is not since it doesn't incorporate the legs within a proper range of motion, is when you are dumbbell chest pressing(benching style) on the stability ball since that way your scapular is not impeded.

Excuse me? Please elaborate on this before...

alwaysbelieve1 · 12-01-2006, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by largepkg

Excuse me? Please elaborate on this before...

Sure the exercise known as the bench can literally be labeled as a "compound exercise", simply because it works more than one muscle while performing it. So does bicep curls as it also uses the forearm muscles, deltoids & abs(since they are the first to fire no matter what you are doing), etc.

Compound exercises are exercises that work a combination of two or more muscle groups rolled into one exercise. The bench does indeed fall into this category, but what I specifically meant(and think was misunderstood about) was that there is a much better way of doing it without impeding the scapular while performing- such as using the SB and pressing DBs. Since the bench itself highly impedes the full range function of the scapular the back cannot properly support the chest/ shoulders. On the SB it can.

I hope this makes more sense this time.

Sorry for the confusion.

**IainDaniel** · 12-01-2006, 11:10 AM

I thought compound exercises referred to multi-joint excercizes

mike456 · 12-01-2006, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IainDaniel

I thought compound exercises referred to multi-joint excercizes

you are right, he is wrong. With his philosiphy curls are a compound exercise.

**IainDaniel** · 12-01-2006, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike456

you are right, he is wrong. With his philosiphy curls are a compound exercise.

Thanks I was being sarcastic

**IainDaniel** · 12-01-2006, 11:16 AM

dammit I even have firefox 2.0 and ignore the spelling feature

mike456 · 12-01-2006, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alwaysbelieve1

Sure the exercise known as the bench can literally be labeled as a "compound exercise", simply because it works more than one muscle while performing it. So does bicep curls as it also uses the forearm muscles, deltoids & abs(since they are the first to fire no matter what you are doing), etc.

Compound exercises are exercises that work a combination of two or more muscle groups rolled into one exercise. The bench does indeed fall into this category, but what I specifically meant(and think was misunderstood about) was that there is a much better way of doing it without impeding the scapular while performing- such as using the SB and pressing DBs. Since the bench itself highly impedes the full range function of the scapular the back cannot properly support the chest/ shoulders. On the SB it can.

I hope this makes more sense this time.

Sorry for the confusion.

every exercise works more than one muscle.

compound exercises are multi-joint (ie- benchpress, shoulder and elbow joint)

isolation exercises are single-joint (ie- curls, elbow joint only)

just because it is an isolation exercise does not mean that it is isolating a muscle, it is isolating a joint

alwaysbelieve1 · 12-01-2006, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike456

you are right, he is wrong. With his philosiphy curls are a compound exercise.

I am not wrong. Google search the terms: "compound exercises" and "compound movements" and see what definitions you get just from a couple of the first 4 websites.

I'm not trying to start a debate here, but in my opinion the combination of both our definitions is right. I didn't get into joint usage as we were simply speaking of muscle usage at the time.

alwaysbelieve1 · 12-01-2006, 11:28 AM

Here are the exact definitions as described on the Glossary of Structural Kinesiology & Weight Training.

Basic

A principal exercise that can place greater absolute intensity on the muscles exercised relative to auxiliary exercises.

Auxiliary

An optional exercise that may supplement a basic exercise. Auxiliary exercises may place greater relative intensity on a specific muscle or a head of a muscle.

Compound

An exercise that involves two or more joint movements.

Isolated

An exercise that involves just one discernible joint movement.

I agree with this most definitely.

**IainDaniel** · 12-01-2006, 11:28 AM

Everything I read refers to the joint.

alwaysbelieve1 · 12-01-2006, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IainDaniel

Everything I read refers to the joint.

Agreed.

mike456 · 12-01-2006, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alwaysbelieve1

I am not wrong. Google search the terms: "compound exercises" and "compound movements" and see what definitions you get just from a couple of the first 4 websites.

I'm not trying to start a debate here, but in my opinion the combination of both our definitions is right. I didn't get into joint usage as we were simply speaking of muscle usage at the time.

I don't care what google brings up, compound exercises are exercises that use more than one joint.

with your philosiphy, every exercise is a compound exercise.

**P-funk** · 12-01-2006, 11:31 AM

compound movements have to do with JOINTS, and moving more than one joint through a range of motion. A bench press is an example of this.

mike456 · 12-01-2006, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alwaysbelieve1

Here are the exact definitions as described on the Glossary of Structural Kinesiology & Weight Training.

Basic

A principal exercise that can place greater absolute intensity on the muscles exercised relative to auxiliary exercises.

Auxiliary

An optional exercise that may supplement a basic exercise. Auxiliary exercises may place greater relative intensity on a specific muscle or a head of a muscle.

Compound

An exercise that involves two or more joint movements.

Isolated

An exercise that involves just one discernible joint movement.

I agree with this most definitely.

exactly what I was saying, you were saying that compound exercises are exercises that use more than one muscle, that is what I was saying was wrong.

alwaysbelieve1 · 12-01-2006, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

compound movements have to do with JOINTS, and moving more than one joint through a range of motion. A bench press is an example of this.

I both realize, understand, and agree with that statement, but all I was saying that to achieve a superior functional form while performing a "benching" exercise the use of the stability ball and dumbbells will provide that environment.

mike456 · 12-01-2006, 11:37 AM

"Sure the exercise known as the bench can literally be labeled as a "compound exercise", simply because it works more than one muscle while performing it"

"The closest benching gets to being compound, which it is not..."

"Compound exercises are exercises that work a combination of two or more muscle groups rolled into one exercise"

these are the statements I was referring to when I said you were wrong, sorry for the confusion

**P-funk** · 12-01-2006, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alwaysbelieve1

I both realize, understand, and agree with that statement, but all I was saying that to achieve a superior functional form while performing a "benching" exercise the use of the stability ball and dumbbells will provide that environment.

everything has some functional implication.........

just because scapular movement is impeded with a BB bench press does not make it an any less effective exercise. The loading that one can achieve on the exercise is far superior to anything else.

Performing the exericse on a stabillity ball may allow for greater scapular movement and place more emphasis on muscles stabilizing the core, however this drastically reduces the amount of load that one can use (not that that is bad, as there are times when it can work....however, when you are looking for strength, you need to get on the bench).

Also, performing exercises on stability balls or uneven surfaces, can place those who already suffer from lower back pain in a compromising position as it can actually double spinal load because they are unable to properly stabilize themself.

The best exercise for scapular movement would be a push up, since it is a closed kinetic chain movement and you can acually do the top portion of it and properly activate the serratus.

alwaysbelieve1 · 12-01-2006, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike456

"Sure the exercise known as the bench can literally be labeled as a "compound exercise", simply because it works more than one muscle while performing it"

"The closest benching gets to being compound, which it is not..."

"Compound exercises are exercises that work a combination of two or more muscle groups rolled into one exercise"

these are the statements I was referring to when I said you were wrong, sorry for the confusion

Hey no prob!

When taken out of my context I sure can see the confusion.

I'm glad we got that all cleared up.

Now we can move on to bigger and greater things.

alwaysbelieve1 · 12-01-2006, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

just because scapular movement is impeded with a BB bench press does not make it an any less effective exercise.

Indeed it does since any impediment is not a desired application of a given exercise/ movement in order to achieve superior conditioning- no matter the goal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

The best exercise for scapular movement would be a push up, since it is a closed kinetic chain movement and you can acually do the top portion of it and properly activate the serratus.

I couldn't agree more!

I utilize the pushup- in many, many forms, throughout all my program designs.

**P-funk** · 12-01-2006, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alwaysbelieve1

Indeed it does since any impediment is not a desired application of a given exercise/ movement in order to achieve superior conditioning- no matter the goal.

again, it comes back to the loading of the exercise. there is no way around it. if you want to load yourself maximally, you are going to have to do it.

If you properly train your scapular stabilizers, you should have no problem bench pressing. Also, you can do activation work for your scapular stabilizers in between sets.

Also, you can lift and perform the top movement of the bench press and get your serratus involved to an extent.

Also, by your example, people shouldn't do many things...

riding a bike places the person into a hip flexed state and shortens the hip flexors. these muscles are now impeded......people shouldn't ride bikes....

people who speed skate gain poor posture because they are hunched over in their speed position.....this is impeding posture....people shouldn't speed skate.

Running shortens the TFL and can impede proper patellar tracking....people shouldn't run.

alwaysbelieve1 · 12-01-2006, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

again, it comes back to the loading of the exercise. there is no way around it. if you want to load yourself maximally, you are going to have to do it.

If you properly train your scapular stabilizers, you should have no problem bench pressing. Also, you can do activation work for your scapular stabilizers in between sets.

Also, you can lift and perform the top movement of the bench press and get your serratus involved to an extent.

Also, by your example, people shouldn't do many things...

riding a bike places the person into a hip flexed state and shortens the hip flexors. these muscles are now impeded......people shouldn't ride bikes....

people who speed skate gain poor posture because they are hunched over in their speed position.....this is impeding posture....people shouldn't speed skate.

Running shortens the TFL and can impede proper patellar tracking....people shouldn't run.

Now you're just splitting hairs.

12-01-2006, 11:10 AM	#36
IainDaniel My Role Model Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 15,022	I thought compound exercises referred to multi-joint excercizes
	Obstacles don't have to stop you. If you run into a wall, don't turn around and give up. Figure out how to climb it, go through it, or work around it. Michael Jordan

12-01-2006, 11:16 AM	#39
IainDaniel My Role Model Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 15,022	dammit I even have firefox 2.0 and ignore the spelling feature
	Obstacles don't have to stop you. If you run into a wall, don't turn around and give up. Figure out how to climb it, go through it, or work around it. Michael Jordan

12-01-2006, 11:28 AM	#42
alwaysbelieve1 A.B.1 Systems Specialist Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: AZ Posts: 106	Here are the exact definitions as described on the Glossary of Structural Kinesiology & Weight Training. Basic A principal exercise that can place greater absolute intensity on the muscles exercised relative to auxiliary exercises. Auxiliary An optional exercise that may supplement a basic exercise. Auxiliary exercises may place greater relative intensity on a specific muscle or a head of a muscle. Compound An exercise that involves two or more joint movements. Isolated An exercise that involves just one discernible joint movement. I agree with this most definitely.
	The key to any routine lies in your ability to abandon it for another. -Always Believe In One Forum-

12-01-2006, 11:28 AM	#43
IainDaniel My Role Model Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 15,022	Everything I read refers to the joint.
	Obstacles don't have to stop you. If you run into a wall, don't turn around and give up. Figure out how to climb it, go through it, or work around it. Michael Jordan

12-01-2006, 11:31 AM	#46
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,227	compound movements have to do with JOINTS, and moving more than one joint through a range of motion. A bench press is an example of this.
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! http://ivonneberkowitz.blogspot.com/....check out Ivonne's new blog! Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

12-01-2006, 11:37 AM	#49
mike456 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,282	"Sure the exercise known as the bench can literally be labeled as a "compound exercise", simply because it works more than one muscle while performing it" "The closest benching gets to being compound, which it is not..." "Compound exercises are exercises that work a combination of two or more muscle groups rolled into one exercise" these are the statements I was referring to when I said you were wrong, sorry for the confusion
mike456 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,282	Journal