Power & Clean forms

zl214 · 12-18-2006, 07:37 PM

i have noticed two coomon variations of doing P&C. But not sure which one is right....

so after I lift the weights up from the ground, I just hold the bar without touching may chest or shoulder. But the other day, when i was watching someone doing P&C at the asian Olympics, i noticed that the lifter rest the bar on his shoulders and then push it up.

so have i been using the wrong form all along???

thanks in advance

**P-funk** · 12-18-2006, 07:44 PM

yes, you rack the bar onto your chest.

zl214 · 12-18-2006, 08:11 PM

is rest the bar on the shoulders universially necessary?

I mean the way I do P&C (or clean press) is not as harcore as olympic lifters, e.g. I do not go really low and front squat the weight up.

this is a graphic demonstration from bodybuilding.com. It seems that this guy did not rack the bar on his chest, despite the instruction clearly said so.

many other demonstrations on the internet I found did not show the resting steps either.

Focus · 12-18-2006, 09:59 PM

The weight he is using is rather small, compared to a powerlifting clean and press. When you are approaching higher numbers, you won't want to suspend the weight in the air like that when you prepare for the second phase of the movement. Racking the bar on the chest allows you to get more momentum exploding from the bottom of the push press.
Either form is good, but more strength will be needed if you suspend the bar in the air like that. In the squat after the clean, no madder how slight it is, holding the weight in air can drain you. If you are looking for the maximum effort numbers, rack it like P said. Suspending in the air seems difficult to maintain during the push press... slightest movement forward and you might need to dump the bar.

KarlW · 12-19-2006, 12:23 AM

The power clean as opposed to the normal clean means pulling the bar from the floor and racking it in a standing position all in one movement, rather than racking it in a squat position, then standing. The press is optional and is then a power clean and press.

And yes, to not rack the bar would be to use fairly light weights.

**P-funk** · 12-19-2006, 07:49 AM

those pictures are horrible technique of a power clean. you shouldn't be using your arms to pull the bar up and you should rack the bar on your shouldres. Pictures don't help much because the lift is so dynamic....those pictures don't help at all because they are terrible.

KarlW · 12-19-2006, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

those pictures are horrible technique of a power clean. you shouldn't be using your arms to pull the bar up and you should rack the bar on your shouldres. Pictures don't help much because the lift is so dynamic....those pictures don't help at all because they are terrible.

hehehehe....

Found this http://orgs.jmu.edu/strength/Exercis...ower_clean.htm.......informative and rather nice too

**P-funk** · 12-19-2006, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KarlW

hehehehe....

Found this http://orgs.jmu.edu/strength/Exercis...ower_clean.htm.......informative and rather nice too

greg werner is the strength coach at JMU. he is a good strength coach.

KarlW · 12-19-2006, 08:16 AM

http://orgs.jmu.edu/strength/Videos/...Bars_Up_MG.wmv

more power cleans

**P-funk** · 12-19-2006, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KarlW

http://orgs.jmu.edu/strength/Videos/...Bars_Up_MG.wmv

more power cleans

yup. that is a big boy! I have watched that video a few times before. there is another video on the site (although I don't know if it is still on there anymore) of one of the football players doing a 405lb hang clean.

KarlW · 12-19-2006, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

yup. that is a big boy! I have watched that video a few times before. there is another video on the site (although I don't know if it is still on there anymore) of one of the football players doing a 405lb hang clean.

http://orgs.jmu.edu/strength/Videos/CK405Clean.html

**P-funk** · 12-19-2006, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KarlW

http://orgs.jmu.edu/strength/Videos/CK405Clean.html

yae, but the video doesn't come up. Does it work for you?

**P-funk** · 12-19-2006, 08:35 AM

I got it now. For some reason it wouldn't play in my Firefox windo?

zl214 · 12-21-2006, 04:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

you shouldn't be using your arms to pull the bar up.

thanks everyone for the input, the videos are great.

just wondering, what do you mean by not using your arms to pull?

Adamjs · 12-21-2006, 05:49 AM

^ the dude in the picture is upright rowing rather than having a smooth movement using his whole body.

Basically it looks like he's tried to break it down into segments so he can have his photo taken instead of performing the move as one would when actually doing it, hence, the entire sequence has been cocked up.

KarlW · 12-21-2006, 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zl214

thanks everyone for the input, the videos are great.

just wondering, what do you mean by not using your arms to pull?

You pull with your whole body. Your hands happen to be wrapped around the bar, and your hands are attached to your arms, which are attached to your body. Unlike an upright row, where you do pull with your arms. Look up high pulls, they are like an upright row, only using your body.

**P-funk** · 12-21-2006, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zl214

thanks everyone for the input, the videos are great.

just wondering, what do you mean by not using your arms to pull?

your arms don't actively pull the weight up. They are like "ropes"....all they do is hang there, you hips create the force to get teh bar moving and then you shrug yourself down against the bar to go under it and catch it.

The Monkey Man · 12-25-2006, 08:53 AM

I like to think of the arms as the chains on a crane or hoist...
They just hang there while the boom and base do the lifting.

Soul of Sol · 12-25-2006, 12:36 PM

On the topic of PC, I've noticed when I am doing light weight my hips don't drop down as far. As the weight increases, I drop my hips a lot deeper...all the way to parallel. Should I be trying to hit parallel with each rep, even with light weight?
No one in any gym I have ever been to EVER Power Cleans, so I can't get an answer. Yet it's my favorite str move.

**P-funk** · 12-25-2006, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soul of Sol

On the topic of PC, I've noticed when I am doing light weight my hips don't drop down as far. As the weight increases, I drop my hips a lot deeper...all the way to parallel. Should I be trying to hit parallel with each rep, even with light weight?
No one in any gym I have ever been to EVER Power Cleans, so I can't get an answer. Yet it's my favorite str move.

a power clean means that you are catching the bar above parallel. If your hips are dropping to parallel or below it is no longer a power clean.

Soul of Sol · 12-25-2006, 02:33 PM

Hmm, ok so this is the improper way to do PCs? I was under the impression that you should at least attempt parallel. Mind you, I would never go ATG like the lifter is doing.
Thanks.

**P-funk** · 12-25-2006, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soul of Sol

Hmm, ok so this is the improper way to do PCs? I was under the impression that you should at least attempt parallel. Mind you, I would never go ATG like the lifter is doing.
Thanks.

Why would you think that is a power clean? it doesn't even say taht it is a power clean. It is a clean (a full clean, a squat clean).

Power Cleans are caught above parallel.

**P-funk** · 12-25-2006, 02:42 PM

Here are some power cleans. Notice how high they are when they make the catch. About a quarter squat depth.

Soul of Sol · 12-25-2006, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

Why would you think that is a power clean? it doesn't even say taht it is a power clean. It is a clean (a full clean, a squat clean).

Power Cleans are caught above parallel.

At the bottom of the page it lists the Power Clean standards. I clicked on that link PC Standards On the page that pops up, Power Cleans are linked three times... PC Standards and for men and women. When I clicked on the men, it brought me back to the Clean demonstration. So I assumed that was the proper technique. Bad, Sol, bad for assuming.

Soul of Sol · 12-25-2006, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

Here are some power cleans. Notice how high they are when they make the catch. About a quarter squat depth.

Ok, sweet! I have been doing 'em right , after all. Now to stop dropping so deep in the heavier PCs...

**P-funk** · 12-25-2006, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soul of Sol

Ok, sweet! I have been doing 'em right , after all. Now to stop dropping so deep in the heavier PCs...

It isn't a problem if you are dropping all the way down. It is just a full clean. The weight is to heavy for you to pull high enough to catch in a power clean, so you have to squat completely under it.

Try doing one day of heavier weight and do squat cleans and a second day of light weight and do power cleans.

12-18-2006, 07:37 PM	#1
zl214 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 144	Power & Clean forms i have noticed two coomon variations of doing P&C. But not sure which one is right.... so after I lift the weights up from the ground, I just hold the bar without touching may chest or shoulder. But the other day, when i was watching someone doing P&C at the asian Olympics, i noticed that the lifter rest the bar on his shoulders and then push it up. so have i been using the wrong form all along??? thanks in advance
zl214 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 144

12-18-2006, 07:44 PM	#2
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,373	yes, you rack the bar onto your chest.
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! http://ivonneberkowitz.blogspot.com/....check out Ivonne's new blog! Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

12-18-2006, 08:11 PM	#3
zl214 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 144	is rest the bar on the shoulders universially necessary? I mean the way I do P&C (or clean press) is not as harcore as olympic lifters, e.g. I do not go really low and front squat the weight up. this is a graphic demonstration from bodybuilding.com. It seems that this guy did not rack the bar on his chest, despite the instruction clearly said so. many other demonstrations on the internet I found did not show the resting steps either.
zl214 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 144

12-19-2006, 12:23 AM	#5
KarlW My Little Man Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Sydney Oz Posts: 1,030	The power clean as opposed to the normal clean means pulling the bar from the floor and racking it in a standing position all in one movement, rather than racking it in a squat position, then standing. The press is optional and is then a power clean and press. And yes, to not rack the bar would be to use fairly light weights.
	What this means is that when we drop a ball and it falls to the ground, it wasn't the ball that moved (down to the ground), but the ground that moved (up to the ball)

12-19-2006, 07:49 AM	#6
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,373	those pictures are horrible technique of a power clean. you shouldn't be using your arms to pull the bar up and you should rack the bar on your shouldres. Pictures don't help much because the lift is so dynamic....those pictures don't help at all because they are terrible.
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! http://ivonneberkowitz.blogspot.com/....check out Ivonne's new blog! Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

12-18-2006, 09:59 PM	#4
Focus Defense Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: USA Posts: 593	The weight he is using is rather small, compared to a powerlifting clean and press. When you are approaching higher numbers, you won't want to suspend the weight in the air like that when you prepare for the second phase of the movement. Racking the bar on the chest allows you to get more momentum exploding from the bottom of the push press. Either form is good, but more strength will be needed if you suspend the bar in the air like that. In the squat after the clean, no madder how slight it is, holding the weight in air can drain you. If you are looking for the maximum effort numbers, rack it like P said. Suspending in the air seems difficult to maintain during the push press... slightest movement forward and you might need to dump the bar.

12-19-2006, 08:16 AM	#9
KarlW My Little Man Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Sydney Oz Posts: 1,030	http://orgs.jmu.edu/strength/Videos/...Bars_Up_MG.wmv more power cleans
	What this means is that when we drop a ball and it falls to the ground, it wasn't the ball that moved (down to the ground), but the ground that moved (up to the ball)

12-19-2006, 08:35 AM	#13
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,373	I got it now. For some reason it wouldn't play in my Firefox windo?
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! http://ivonneberkowitz.blogspot.com/....check out Ivonne's new blog! Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

12-21-2006, 05:49 AM	#15
Adamjs Adamjs Join Date: May 2005 Location: Sydney Posts: 260	^ the dude in the picture is upright rowing rather than having a smooth movement using his whole body. Basically it looks like he's tried to break it down into segments so he can have his photo taken instead of performing the move as one would when actually doing it, hence, the entire sequence has been cocked up.
	____________________________________________ Restless soul, enjoy your youth. Like Muhammad. Hits the truth. Can't escape from the common rule - if you hate something don't you do it too.

12-25-2006, 08:53 AM	#18
The Monkey Man Magical Apelikemenace Elite Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: New Delhi, India Posts: 13,495 Photos: 32	I like to think of the arms as the chains on a crane or hoist... They just hang there while the boom and base do the lifting.
	Have Problems?... Chances are its due to overpopulation Save The Oceans, Save the Planet, Save Your Family, Save Yourself!

12-25-2006, 12:36 PM	#19
Soul of Sol Solar Entity Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Milky Way and L.A. Posts: 159 Photos: 4	On the topic of PC, I've noticed when I am doing light weight my hips don't drop down as far. As the weight increases, I drop my hips a lot deeper...all the way to parallel. Should I be trying to hit parallel with each rep, even with light weight? No one in any gym I have ever been to EVER Power Cleans, so I can't get an answer. Yet it's my favorite str move.
	"I'm the kingpin you can't win" ~ Safiir Journal

12-25-2006, 02:33 PM	#21
Soul of Sol Solar Entity Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Milky Way and L.A. Posts: 159 Photos: 4	Hmm, ok so this is the improper way to do PCs? I was under the impression that you should at least attempt parallel. Mind you, I would never go ATG like the lifter is doing. Thanks. Last edited by Soul of Sol : 12-25-2006 at 02:34 PM. Reason: I curse thee, spelling gods!!
	"I'm the kingpin you can't win" ~ Safiir Journal

12-25-2006, 02:42 PM	#23
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,373	Here are some power cleans. Notice how high they are when they make the catch. About a quarter squat depth.
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! http://ivonneberkowitz.blogspot.com/....check out Ivonne's new blog! Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book