Stop Worrying About Arms

zl214 · 12-28-2006, 10:07 PM

i hate you stew!

j/k

i still cant bench my BW

after lifting for two year.

Malley · 12-28-2006, 10:08 PM

Dont we all.

juggernaut · 12-28-2006, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

You have a good point with regard to not having a trainer. Still, as you mentioned before, you need to develop a certain level of neuromuscular coordination to perform compound exercises with any kind of proficiency. You are going to get a very limited improvement in neuromuscular coordination by doing a bunch of isolation exercises.

Furthermore, the issue a lot of people have isn't a lack of strength, but a lack of proper knowledge of technique. Sorry to say, but doing leg curls and extensions before your first squat isn't going to do diddly if your technique is still garbage. Most people can do a squat with their bodyweight, they just don't know how to do it properly. Now, there are certainly cases where more remedial work is warranted, but that is not the norm.

Agreed.

zl214 · 12-28-2006, 11:32 PM

this is really getting into a chicken/egg conversation.

I do agree with fact that compound exercises are better than isolation exercises.

on the other hand, there are two reasons that lead to the relative low popularity of many of the compound exercise in reality.

1. people are not informed about the benefit of compound exercise, which is not likely to be the case on this site, thanks to the constant effort from moderators and many members

2. people simply cant do them.

just want to remind that possibility 2 do exist and there is nothing wrong with not being able to perform those lifts.

depaul · 12-29-2006, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by camarosuper6

Chins destroy my biceps...even more than heavy barbell curls.

Malley · 12-29-2006, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juggernaut

I dont think its a good idea to get into a pissing match with me.

I dont think I can piss farther, but I bet my farts stink worse. I just got done with some eggs......

juggernaut · 12-29-2006, 05:18 PM

Beat cauliflower with chili-HOT chili. Bammm!!!!

Took it up a notch...BITCH.

Malley · 12-29-2006, 05:21 PM

Well my wife says there is no way anything can be any more rancid than this. And this is stamped with the wifes approval, check mate.

juggernaut · 12-29-2006, 05:25 PM

funny my wife says the same thing. And I clear rooms!

AKIRA · 12-29-2006, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zl214

this is really getting into a chicken/egg conversation.

I do agree with fact that compound exercises are better than isolation exercises.

on the other hand, there are two reasons that lead to the relative low popularity of many of the compound exercise in reality.

1. people are not informed about the benefit of compound exercise, which is not likely to be the case on this site, thanks to the constant effort from moderators and many members

2. people simply cant do them.

just want to remind that possibility 2 do exist and there is nothing wrong with not being able to perform those lifts.

Or more to the point, dont WANT to do them.

I remember not wanting to squat at all cuz of the pain. Benching was the only compound movement I did and thats cuz of ego. Rows? Deads? OH Presses? That was all German to me. Just goes to show how stupid and brainless some of us can be when we first start.

Curls? Pressdowns? Theyre pretty easy to figure out, plus the DOMS that comes with it is bearable. Form is usually off, but its not as disastrous as it could be compounds.

I guess what I would simply put it as, people who do lots of isolation movements are pussies who dont want to work harder with compounds...even though in total, its more weight.

Doesnt more weight = more ego?

zl214 · 12-29-2006, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKIRA

I guess what I would simply put it as, people who do lots of isolation movements are pussies who dont want to work harder with compounds...even though in total, its more weight.

thats why i love my gym, because there are so many pussies around me i can check out. they put their hands around poles,squeezing, screaming and moaning.

Malley · 12-29-2006, 10:09 PM

Have we made the point that arm days suck yet?

What do you think Cam?

Strongwarrior · 12-30-2006, 03:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double D

I totally disagree. Start by doing compound exercises. Your muscles will strengthen faster this way than they would doing 3 sets of tricep kickbacks and 3 sets of preacher curls supersetted with 3 sets of cable crossovers and a abductor machine.

Lmfao!

camarosuper6 · 12-31-2006, 06:36 PM

Its ludicrous to start with isolation exercises.

ANYONE can do basic compound movements. I would say ditch isolation completely the first year of training.

Malley · 12-31-2006, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by camarosuper6

Its ludicrous to start with isolation exercises.

ANYONE can do basic compound movements. I would say ditch isolation completely the first year of training.

Agreed, 100%!

camarosuper6 · 12-31-2006, 06:56 PM

Unless they want to have a ton of imbalances that could lead to injury.

juggernaut · 12-31-2006, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by camarosuper6

Its ludicrous to start with isolation exercises.

ANYONE can do basic compound movements. I would say ditch isolation completely the first year of training.

where's the science behind that statement? I'd love to drop the isolation movements, but I need facts.

**P-funk** · 01-01-2007, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juggernaut

where's the science behind that statement? I'd love to drop the isolation movements, but I need facts.

the science behind it is that nothing is in isolation. Muscles work synergystically to produce movement. When you do a 'pull', you are always contracting your biceps. It isn't like we can make this up. It is fact. It is the biomechanics of the human body....the proof is in the pudding.

juggernaut · 01-01-2007, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

the science behind it is that nothing is in isolation. Muscles work synergystically to produce movement. When you do a 'pull', you are always contracting your biceps. It isn't like we can make this up. It is fact. It is the biomechanics of the human body....the proof is in the pudding.

I agree up to a point-I'm a HUGE believer in barbell curls and close grip bench presses; However, if you don't work your arms to some degree with a small amount of isolation, aren't you missing out on the small details?

**P-funk** · 01-01-2007, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juggernaut

I agree up to a point-I'm a HUGE believer in barbell curls and close grip bench presses; However, if you don't work your arms to some degree with a small amount of isolation, aren't you missing out on the small details?

I am not saying that you shouldn't do any arm training at all. In general, I think that a little bit of arm training is fine. Also, if you are trying to compete in BBing (like yourself), you are going to want to do some arm training to make sure you get the needed volume for those muscles to spark the hypertrophy you are looking for. Some isolation lifts are okay. I don't think that they are totally neccessary for those of us training for general fitness or functional athletics....in most cases, you get enough arm work from your compound lifts AND you are just wasting time on those small muscle exericses. Time that could be spent doing other things...conditioning, circuits, complexes, etc....But, as a BBer (or even a general gym rat trainee), i think some arm work is fine. Do I think that you should be doing a full day of bi's and tri's? Absolutely not. You may do a pull work out and do a pull up movement, two different rowing exercises and then three sets of one bicep exercise and call it day. I think that would be better time well spent then if you were to go in and do 3-4 bicep exercises with 3-4 reps each.

Malley · 01-01-2007, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

Steroid abuse can be discussed anytime you mention how BBers train (or any other athlete as it is prevelant in most sports).

Most bodybuilders are on a one way track to an early grave. Some practice steroids the right way, but for the most part as far as pro's go, they have been dieing off early for years. Well atleast todays bb'ers anyways. I see nothing good about someone like Ronnie Coleman. I think he looks like hell and if I had to inject all that crap that he does, then I wouldnt want to look like him. I do think there shouldnt be bodybuilding mags in the first place. BB'ers have gotten carried away and this sets a bad example for the youth of today and society as a whole. In my opinion this helps contribute to steroid use. You see a guy this size and automatically you think, "steroids". And this is what it takes to get that big. Young kids then decide to start injecting whatever the corner supplier tells him (which is to much because he is awaiting him to come back for more). And they either suffer an injury (from growing much to fast), burn themselves out, do well and lead a life full of steroid abuse (eventually messing something up before getting to the big show), doing one cycle then stopping (and we all know how easy it is to get fat after a cycle), the very unlucky ones will die, then theres that less than 1% that will actually make it to be a pro-bb'er.

So P I go with you on this one. There is no reason to preach arms arms arms for the simple fact that the majority of people here arent on steroids, but rather high off of life. This is a good honest community. We have a few guys here who use steroids, but they are older fellas and are simply trying to keep they levels up or very experienced in which they know their shit (mudge). The majority of people here dont think that a arm routine of 20 sets will get them anywhere than stuck in a larger rut than they have already dug for themselves. A final look at this would be if you would simply have a hard ass back routine and follow it with a few sets of biceps that is all you need if you are a natural bb'er (in which most here are).

AKIRA · 01-01-2007, 10:53 PM

Hah, surprisingly, I like the turn this thread went.

What if an arm day was applied, but it was low volume? 2 exercises for both bis and tris, 8-12 reps, 2-3 sets? The rest of the day would be worked on conditioning, core, grip, etc..

Of course, then again, I guess I couldnt ask that unless I said that this person had lacking arm size... (so again, were back to a person's goal)

camarosuper6 · 01-02-2007, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IainDaniel

Maybe you could talk, if we could decipher your spelling mistakes.

lol

ow3ed

juggernaut · 01-02-2007, 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IainDaniel

Maybe you could talk, if we could decipher your spelling mistakes.

juggernaut · 01-02-2007, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double D

Most bodybuilders are on a one way track to an early grave. Some practice steroids the right way, but for the most part as far as pro's go, they have been dieing off early for years. Well atleast todays bb'ers anyways. I see nothing good about someone like Ronnie Coleman. I think he looks like hell and if I had to inject all that crap that he does, then I wouldnt want to look like him. I do think there shouldnt be bodybuilding mags in the first place. BB'ers have gotten carried away and this sets a bad example for the youth of today and society as a whole. In my opinion this helps contribute to steroid use. You see a guy this size and automatically you think, "steroids". And this is what it takes to get that big. Young kids then decide to start injecting whatever the corner supplier tells him (which is to much because he is awaiting him to come back for more). And they either suffer an injury (from growing much to fast), burn themselves out, do well and lead a life full of steroid abuse (eventually messing something up before getting to the big show), doing one cycle then stopping (and we all know how easy it is to get fat after a cycle), the very unlucky ones will die, then theres that less than 1% that will actually make it to be a pro-bb'er.

So P I go with you on this one. There is no reason to preach arms arms arms for the simple fact that the majority of people here arent on steroids, but rather high off of life. This is a good honest community. We have a few guys here who use steroids, but they are older fellas and are simply trying to keep they levels up or very experienced in which they know their shit (mudge). The majority of people here dont think that a arm routine of 20 sets will get them anywhere than stuck in a larger rut than they have already dug for themselves. A final look at this would be if you would simply have a hard ass back routine and follow it with a few sets of biceps that is all you need if you are a natural bb'er (in which most here are).

Great statement, although i dont agree with "most bodybuilders" .

12-28-2006, 10:07 PM	#61
zl214 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 144	i hate you stew! j/k i still cant bench my BW after lifting for two year.
zl214 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 144

12-28-2006, 10:08 PM	#62
Malley Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 10,021	Dont we all.
	www.crossfit.com

12-28-2006, 11:32 PM	#64
zl214 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 144	this is really getting into a chicken/egg conversation. I do agree with fact that compound exercises are better than isolation exercises. on the other hand, there are two reasons that lead to the relative low popularity of many of the compound exercise in reality. 1. people are not informed about the benefit of compound exercise, which is not likely to be the case on this site, thanks to the constant effort from moderators and many members 2. people simply cant do them. just want to remind that possibility 2 do exist and there is nothing wrong with not being able to perform those lifts.
zl214 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 144

12-29-2006, 05:18 PM	#67
juggernaut hybrid of machine & skin Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Mars Posts: 4,148 Photos: 2	Beat cauliflower with chili-HOT chili. Bammm!!!! Took it up a notch...BITCH.
	Eat well, train daily, die anyway.

12-29-2006, 05:21 PM	#68
Malley Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 10,021	Well my wife says there is no way anything can be any more rancid than this. And this is stamped with the wifes approval, check mate.
	www.crossfit.com

12-29-2006, 05:25 PM	#69
juggernaut hybrid of machine & skin Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Mars Posts: 4,148 Photos: 2	funny my wife says the same thing. And I clear rooms!
	Eat well, train daily, die anyway.

12-29-2006, 10:09 PM	#72
Malley Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 10,021	Have we made the point that arm days suck yet? What do you think Cam?
	www.crossfit.com

12-31-2006, 06:36 PM	#74
camarosuper6 Back Home In SOCAL Elite Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: California Posts: 3,353	Its ludicrous to start with isolation exercises. ANYONE can do basic compound movements. I would say ditch isolation completely the first year of training.
	"TOLERANCE is the virtue of a man without convictions" G.K.Chesterton Boot Shine and Polish $15. New Uniforms: $250 New gun and holster: $450 Looking like a stud in uniform: Priceless Girl: Me and this new guy are getting kinda chummy. Me: Good chummy? Like friends forever? Girl: Ya Me: Or Chummy like, spank my ass chummy?

12-31-2006, 06:56 PM	#76
camarosuper6 Back Home In SOCAL Elite Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: California Posts: 3,353	Unless they want to have a ton of imbalances that could lead to injury.
	"TOLERANCE is the virtue of a man without convictions" G.K.Chesterton Boot Shine and Polish $15. New Uniforms: $250 New gun and holster: $450 Looking like a stud in uniform: Priceless Girl: Me and this new guy are getting kinda chummy. Me: Good chummy? Like friends forever? Girl: Ya Me: Or Chummy like, spank my ass chummy?

01-01-2007, 10:53 PM	#82
AKIRA I am Rollo Tomassee.. Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Outside the box Posts: 7,907 Photos: 3	Hah, surprisingly, I like the turn this thread went. What if an arm day was applied, but it was low volume? 2 exercises for both bis and tris, 8-12 reps, 2-3 sets? The rest of the day would be worked on conditioning, core, grip, etc.. Of course, then again, I guess I couldnt ask that unless I said that this person had lacking arm size... (so again, were back to a person's goal)
	6' 209lbs (8/16) Bench 360 (11/29) Weighted Pullups 80lbs 3x3 (3/19) Squat 370 Deadlift after herniation 385lbs 3x3 (3/17) NASM certified 2/06 Journal