benching for shoulders, not overhead presses

GoLdeN M 07 · 12-26-2006, 04:25 PM

Everyone says if you want big shoulders you need to do overhead presses and dumbell raises. After i bench press or do some kind of front press my whole shoulder area seems to get big when i check in the miror, and i would actually be lucky to have my middle delts get worked when overhead pressing and dumbell raises basically dont really do a good job with the shoulders.

Why doesnt anyone here talk about benching? Everyone i know who benches had big shoulders and before knowing this i was so confused how they did it. I spent months doing shoulder presses and db raises and got bullshit but when i did some kinda front press (or whatever its called) my shoulders quickly got big.

And all those bigass bodybuilders you see on tv and magazines... i doubt they get their big shoulders by OH pressing. theyre wayy to big for those and db raises.

Double D · 12-26-2006, 04:38 PM

Well honestly your shoulders should have very little to do with bench pressing if you are benching correctly. You need to be sure you keep your shoulder blades pinned together and your shoulders rolled back and this forces you to use mostly your chest and triceps. Also keep the bar very low on your chest, almost on your upper abs.

Witchblade · 12-26-2006, 04:50 PM

My guess is you were completely overtraining your shoulders and when you laid back on the shoulder work they started to grow.

Benching only works the front delts a bit. OH pressing works the entire shoulder, but mostly the medial delt.

Your answer? Bench + OH press + row = big shoulders.

Burner02 · 12-26-2006, 04:50 PM

Well, D gave a great, (and) perfect explanation of how to correctly bench.

As far as your delts go...Military pressing IS the way to growing your entire shoulder girdle. (compound movement)
there are web sites you can go to for explanation and execution of exercises.
Personally, some time back, I did mainly incline Bench pressing. My anterior (front) delts got hit hard and grew more than the rest of my delts. I had a rounded over look. I don't do front raises..or rarely.
Military press (or overhead if u want to call it that) Targets your medial head as well as the anterior head)
How is your form and Range Of Motion? If you are doing them correctly and your delts aren't growing..something is wrong.
Also, what do you do for the medial and anterior heads? (side and back parts of the delts)
benching does not directly make your delts grow.

GoLdeN M 07 · 12-26-2006, 05:06 PM

ok i guess that makes sense. And not that im trying to attack or go againts anyone who answered but does anybody here who honestly has big round shoulders does not bench press, dumbell chest press, or do pushups?

A few years ago, i used to weighted inclined one arm pushups for several months with usually 4 sets x 5 reps and when i was finished i went to the miror and checked my shoulders and they always got really big and round.
People at my school , even the beginners benched and always got big round delts.

Double D · 12-26-2006, 05:12 PM

I do think that if a person is to put a solid workout regimine together and leaves out any kind of bench at all, then its not a solid workout regimine. So to answer your question, no, people who have big round shoulders do indeed do some form of bench press. But who doesnt?

Then again for the most part I know whenever my shoulders are growing from one thing or another, and I can tell you for a fact you will gain nice big shoulders from a military press before you do from bench, unless you are leaving your shoulders open for injury. This happens all to often, people dont know the proper way to preform a bench press and use their shoulders. Which can be effective, but dangerous. Whenever you go up weight and start preforming low reps then thats whenever it starts to get dangerous.

GoLdeN M 07 · 12-26-2006, 05:29 PM

alright thanks. I just get desperate for big shoulders. When i first started overhead pressing my shoulders really got big and round so i got happy and decided to stick with it but then after a few weeks of doing them i felt my front delts were getting worked much more than my sides which got me a little ticked, db raises didnt work either. Now, a year later i thought back on all the times i did pushups, bench presses and db chest presses and thought what they did to my shoulders as well as what they did to other people i know. In the weightroom, i have only seen them bench as a basic upperbody exercise but never shoulder press or db raise and they got pretty toned rounded delts(you know, the new people who seem to do the popular exercises and rarely any of the more specific exercises and dont know too much).

Double D · 12-26-2006, 05:31 PM

You still do bench pressing right? I know alot of people dont do flat benching because it hurts their shoulders, but fo you do some type of benching? I guess I need to correct myself a bit, I think benching does effect your shoulders, but not to the extent that shoulder presses do. There is my correction. I would think the bench if done properly would hit the shoulders lastly, and only to a certain degree. The most stress would be on your triceps and chest.

GoLdeN M 07 · 12-26-2006, 05:48 PM

Well i dont bench because its hard to find a good spotter at home who doesnt get all jumpy if he thinks ur lifting too heavy and the fact that my left arm is weaker than my right arm so i dont get a good workout and it is unsafe. Right now im doing weighted pushups with these pushup stands i have. I guess i'll just do them, shoulder presses and db side raises and see what i get, and i recently bought some supplements so it might take a faster pace.

Also during the time i was doing shoulder/overhead presses my side delts were rarely ever sore the next day so thats definatley a problem.

Double D · 12-26-2006, 06:00 PM

Just because a muscle doesnt get sore doesnt mean it isnt getting worked. Also do you not have Db's at home? You can buy the handles for about 30 bucks and add weight to em. Weighted pushups may be ok, I dont know what training history you have, but there really isnt a good substitute for some kind of horizontal press. I know Bowflex makes a bench that has built in spotters on the sides. I had a buddy buy one 5 days ago for about $275. Its really sturdy and nice. Also your left arm will find its way out of being weaker the more you press. I think just about everyone starts out that way then within normally a month or so its fixed itself.

GoLdeN M 07 · 12-26-2006, 06:09 PM

o my bad my bad i just realized i my shoulders probably didnt get sore from bb shoulder pressing the next day since my left arm is weaker so my right arm doesnt get a good workout since it can easily lift the weight. My left arm however did get sore. Haha sorry buddy.

AKIRA · 12-26-2006, 06:39 PM

Benching does use the shoulders more than a "little" way, but overhead presses can be done in a variety of ways.

Barbell Press
DB Press
Alternating DB Press
Arnold Press

Seated or (my fav) standing!

I personally dont like any sort of raises. If I settled for one, it would be scaptions, but for size, Id ditch them or keep them low volume. You want big shoulders? Utilize big compounds...and dont forget to bench.

Double D · 12-26-2006, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double D

I guess I need to correct myself a bit, I think benching does effect your shoulders, but not to the extent that shoulder presses do.

Thought I would bring this to everyones attention.

Burner02 · 12-26-2006, 08:10 PM

I think D also brought up the point about your arms not being of equal strength.
If your arms aren't up to par, as it were....you don't need to be worrying about using weight that would require you to need a spotter. (always good to have one if one is available)
Keep your weight at a range where you can do about 8 - 10 reps without failing. (close, but not fail)
Your weaker arm will catch up tothe dominant one. It HAS to. When the bar is going up steadily and level...then you can think of adding weight.

But to not do a core exercise, 'cause you can't find a spotter? Don't make excuses. How old are you? we've got a 13 year old on-site...he's alittle nut job...but I will give him credit for his desire and intensity...

When I was in highschool...I had no idea what I was doing...nor did the guys I 'lifted' with. We'd hit bench presses all class...or we'd do curls...and curls..and more curls...maybe some squats...most likely the WRONG way to do them.

See you've been here a few hundred posts...stick around and learn to do this the right way. Read the stickies. Ask questions.
If I knew then what I know now...and had that natural testosterone flowing in the levels you do...whooo! Would have been good times!

Double D · 12-26-2006, 08:13 PM

Hes been here longer than me Burner.

Burner02 · 12-26-2006, 08:14 PM

427 posts to 3,757?
ooohh......you took the SHORT bus to school....

Look! I made another funny!

Double D · 12-26-2006, 08:15 PM

Of course the post number is different, but the join date is before mine. Are you calling me a post whore?

GoLdeN M 07 · 12-26-2006, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burner02

I think D also brought up the point about your arms not being of equal strength.
If your arms aren't up to par, as it were....you don't need to be worrying about using weight that would require you to need a spotter. (always good to have one if one is available)
Keep your weight at a range where you can do about 8 - 10 reps without failing. (close, but not fail)
Your weaker arm will catch up tothe dominant one. It HAS to. When the bar is going up steadily and level...then you can think of adding weight.

But to not do a core exercise, 'cause you can't find a spotter? Don't make excuses. How old are you? we've got a 13 year old on-site...he's alittle nut job...but I will give him credit for his desire and intensity...

When I was in highschool...I had no idea what I was doing...nor did the guys I 'lifted' with. We'd hit bench presses all class...or we'd do curls...and curls..and more curls...maybe some squats...most likely the WRONG way to do them.

See you've been here a few hundred posts...stick around and learn to do this the right way. Read the stickies. Ask questions.
If I knew then what I know now...and had that natural testosterone flowing in the levels you do...whooo! Would have been good times!

alright thanks

and im 16

Burner02 · 12-26-2006, 08:17 PM

naw....you haven't broken 10k yet....but some day, my padewon...

Double D · 12-26-2006, 08:20 PM

Well I probably will within the next year. Damn old post whore.....

Burner02 · 12-26-2006, 08:57 PM

well, mi amigo....if u get a mid-shift job w/ internet access...and basically nothing to do...and a few night owls on....you too can get the stupid post count #'s I have...

Double D · 12-26-2006, 08:58 PM

Well thats where I am right now, at work! Easy job ya know. But I have something I am sure the next guy isnt going to be to happy about. Oh well its the first one back since xmas. He'll get over it.

Burner02 · 12-26-2006, 09:02 PM

what would that be?

Double D · 12-26-2006, 09:04 PM

I was suppose to change a gasket on a bleach press. I didnt get it done.

**CowPimp** · 12-27-2006, 09:20 PM

Yes, bench pressing works your shoulders a lot too.

There are a lot of reasons why you might not have seen the results you wanted before though: diet, poor exercise selection, not enough/too much stimulation of the muscles in question, etc.

GoLdeN M 07 · 12-28-2006, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

Yes, bench pressing works your shoulders a lot too.

There are a lot of reasons why you might not have seen the results you wanted before though: diet, poor exercise selection, not enough/too much stimulation of the muscles in question, etc.

Yea i got a few things covered now:
For diet i dont need to worry so much because i recently just bought some musclebuilding powder-muscle milk.
For the poor exercise selection, well i was way too obsessed with getting big shoulders i just focused on doing OH presses and db raises. I never thought of adding some horizontal press in my routine.

AKIRA · 12-28-2006, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoLdeN M 07

Yea i got a few things covered now:
For diet i dont need to worry so much because i recently just bought some musclebuilding powder-muscle milk.
For the poor exercise selection, well i was way too obsessed with getting big shoulders i just focused on doing OH presses and db raises. I never thought of adding some horizontal press in my routine.

If thats all you were doing for a long time, then your body had already adapted to those moves.

**CowPimp** · 12-28-2006, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoLdeN M 07

Yea i got a few things covered now:
For diet i dont need to worry so much because i recently just bought some musclebuilding powder-muscle milk.
For the poor exercise selection, well i was way too obsessed with getting big shoulders i just focused on doing OH presses

12-26-2006, 04:25 PM	#1
GoLdeN M 07 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Mahwah, NJ Posts: 549	benching for shoulders, not overhead presses BODYBUILDING SUPPLEMENTS High Quality Supplements For Bodybuilders and Athletes. www.ironmaglabs.com Everyone says if you want big shoulders you need to do overhead presses and dumbell raises. After i bench press or do some kind of front press my whole shoulder area seems to get big when i check in the miror, and i would actually be lucky to have my middle delts get worked when overhead pressing and dumbell raises basically dont really do a good job with the shoulders. Why doesnt anyone here talk about benching? Everyone i know who benches had big shoulders and before knowing this i was so confused how they did it. I spent months doing shoulder presses and db raises and got bullshit but when i did some kinda front press (or whatever its called) my shoulders quickly got big. And all those bigass bodybuilders you see on tv and magazines... i doubt they get their big shoulders by OH pressing. theyre wayy to big for those and db raises.

12-26-2006, 04:38 PM	#2
Double D Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 9,901	Well honestly your shoulders should have very little to do with bench pressing if you are benching correctly. You need to be sure you keep your shoulder blades pinned together and your shoulders rolled back and this forces you to use mostly your chest and triceps. Also keep the bar very low on your chest, almost on your upper abs.
	www.crossfit.com

12-26-2006, 04:50 PM	#3
Witchblade Succinct Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Holland Posts: 4,208 Photos: 2	My guess is you were completely overtraining your shoulders and when you laid back on the shoulder work they started to grow. Benching only works the front delts a bit. OH pressing works the entire shoulder, but mostly the medial delt. Your answer? Bench + OH press + row = big shoulders.
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12-26-2006, 04:50 PM	#4
Burner02 Super Hero in Training Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tip of the spear! Posts: 28,291	Well, D gave a great, (and) perfect explanation of how to correctly bench. As far as your delts go...Military pressing IS the way to growing your entire shoulder girdle. (compound movement) there are web sites you can go to for explanation and execution of exercises. Personally, some time back, I did mainly incline Bench pressing. My anterior (front) delts got hit hard and grew more than the rest of my delts. I had a rounded over look. I don't do front raises..or rarely. Military press (or overhead if u want to call it that) Targets your medial head as well as the anterior head) How is your form and Range Of Motion? If you are doing them correctly and your delts aren't growing..something is wrong. Also, what do you do for the medial and anterior heads? (side and back parts of the delts) benching does not directly make your delts grow.
	Success leaves clues. People who produce outstanding results do specific things to create those results Nobody cares what you did yesterday or what you are going to do tomorrow. What is important is what you are doing NOW to solve our problem THERE IS NO TOMORROW! - Appollo Creed

12-26-2006, 05:12 PM	#6
Double D Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 9,901	I do think that if a person is to put a solid workout regimine together and leaves out any kind of bench at all, then its not a solid workout regimine. So to answer your question, no, people who have big round shoulders do indeed do some form of bench press. But who doesnt? Then again for the most part I know whenever my shoulders are growing from one thing or another, and I can tell you for a fact you will gain nice big shoulders from a military press before you do from bench, unless you are leaving your shoulders open for injury. This happens all to often, people dont know the proper way to preform a bench press and use their shoulders. Which can be effective, but dangerous. Whenever you go up weight and start preforming low reps then thats whenever it starts to get dangerous.
	www.crossfit.com

12-26-2006, 05:06 PM	#5
GoLdeN M 07 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Mahwah, NJ Posts: 549	ok i guess that makes sense. And not that im trying to attack or go againts anyone who answered but does anybody here who honestly has big round shoulders does not bench press, dumbell chest press, or do pushups? A few years ago, i used to weighted inclined one arm pushups for several months with usually 4 sets x 5 reps and when i was finished i went to the miror and checked my shoulders and they always got really big and round. People at my school , even the beginners benched and always got big round delts.

12-26-2006, 05:29 PM	#7
GoLdeN M 07 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Mahwah, NJ Posts: 549	alright thanks. I just get desperate for big shoulders. When i first started overhead pressing my shoulders really got big and round so i got happy and decided to stick with it but then after a few weeks of doing them i felt my front delts were getting worked much more than my sides which got me a little ticked, db raises didnt work either. Now, a year later i thought back on all the times i did pushups, bench presses and db chest presses and thought what they did to my shoulders as well as what they did to other people i know. In the weightroom, i have only seen them bench as a basic upperbody exercise but never shoulder press or db raise and they got pretty toned rounded delts(you know, the new people who seem to do the popular exercises and rarely any of the more specific exercises and dont know too much).

12-26-2006, 05:31 PM	#8
Double D Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 9,901	You still do bench pressing right? I know alot of people dont do flat benching because it hurts their shoulders, but fo you do some type of benching? I guess I need to correct myself a bit, I think benching does effect your shoulders, but not to the extent that shoulder presses do. There is my correction. I would think the bench if done properly would hit the shoulders lastly, and only to a certain degree. The most stress would be on your triceps and chest.
	www.crossfit.com

12-26-2006, 05:48 PM	#9
GoLdeN M 07 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Mahwah, NJ Posts: 549	Well i dont bench because its hard to find a good spotter at home who doesnt get all jumpy if he thinks ur lifting too heavy and the fact that my left arm is weaker than my right arm so i dont get a good workout and it is unsafe. Right now im doing weighted pushups with these pushup stands i have. I guess i'll just do them, shoulder presses and db side raises and see what i get, and i recently bought some supplements so it might take a faster pace. Also during the time i was doing shoulder/overhead presses my side delts were rarely ever sore the next day so thats definatley a problem.

12-26-2006, 06:00 PM	#10
Double D Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 9,901	Just because a muscle doesnt get sore doesnt mean it isnt getting worked. Also do you not have Db's at home? You can buy the handles for about 30 bucks and add weight to em. Weighted pushups may be ok, I dont know what training history you have, but there really isnt a good substitute for some kind of horizontal press. I know Bowflex makes a bench that has built in spotters on the sides. I had a buddy buy one 5 days ago for about $275. Its really sturdy and nice. Also your left arm will find its way out of being weaker the more you press. I think just about everyone starts out that way then within normally a month or so its fixed itself.
	www.crossfit.com

12-26-2006, 06:09 PM	#11
GoLdeN M 07 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Mahwah, NJ Posts: 549	o my bad my bad i just realized i my shoulders probably didnt get sore from bb shoulder pressing the next day since my left arm is weaker so my right arm doesnt get a good workout since it can easily lift the weight. My left arm however did get sore. Haha sorry buddy.

12-26-2006, 06:39 PM	#12
AKIRA I am Rollo Tomassee.. Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Outside the box Posts: 7,494 Photos: 3	Benching does use the shoulders more than a "little" way, but overhead presses can be done in a variety of ways. Barbell Press DB Press Alternating DB Press Arnold Press Seated or (my fav) standing! I personally dont like any sort of raises. If I settled for one, it would be scaptions, but for size, Id ditch them or keep them low volume. You want big shoulders? Utilize big compounds...and dont forget to bench.
	6' 209lbs (8/16) Bench 360 (11/29) Weighted Pullups 80lbs 3x3 (3/19) Squat 370 Deadlift after herniation 385lbs 3x3 (3/17) NASM certified 2/06 Journal

12-26-2006, 08:10 PM	#14
Burner02 Super Hero in Training Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tip of the spear! Posts: 28,291	I think D also brought up the point about your arms not being of equal strength. If your arms aren't up to par, as it were....you don't need to be worrying about using weight that would require you to need a spotter. (always good to have one if one is available) Keep your weight at a range where you can do about 8 - 10 reps without failing. (close, but not fail) Your weaker arm will catch up tothe dominant one. It HAS to. When the bar is going up steadily and level...then you can think of adding weight. But to not do a core exercise, 'cause you can't find a spotter? Don't make excuses. How old are you? we've got a 13 year old on-site...he's alittle nut job...but I will give him credit for his desire and intensity... When I was in highschool...I had no idea what I was doing...nor did the guys I 'lifted' with. We'd hit bench presses all class...or we'd do curls...and curls..and more curls...maybe some squats...most likely the WRONG way to do them. See you've been here a few hundred posts...stick around and learn to do this the right way. Read the stickies. Ask questions. If I knew then what I know now...and had that natural testosterone flowing in the levels you do...whooo! Would have been good times!
	Success leaves clues. People who produce outstanding results do specific things to create those results Nobody cares what you did yesterday or what you are going to do tomorrow. What is important is what you are doing NOW to solve our problem THERE IS NO TOMORROW! - Appollo Creed

12-26-2006, 08:13 PM	#15
Double D Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 9,901	Hes been here longer than me Burner.
	www.crossfit.com

12-26-2006, 08:14 PM	#16
Burner02 Super Hero in Training Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tip of the spear! Posts: 28,291	427 posts to 3,757? ooohh......you took the SHORT bus to school.... Look! I made another funny!
	Success leaves clues. People who produce outstanding results do specific things to create those results Nobody cares what you did yesterday or what you are going to do tomorrow. What is important is what you are doing NOW to solve our problem THERE IS NO TOMORROW! - Appollo Creed

12-26-2006, 08:15 PM	#17
Double D Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 9,901	Of course the post number is different, but the join date is before mine. Are you calling me a post whore?
	www.crossfit.com

12-26-2006, 08:17 PM	#19
Burner02 Super Hero in Training Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tip of the spear! Posts: 28,291	naw....you haven't broken 10k yet....but some day, my padewon...
	Success leaves clues. People who produce outstanding results do specific things to create those results Nobody cares what you did yesterday or what you are going to do tomorrow. What is important is what you are doing NOW to solve our problem THERE IS NO TOMORROW! - Appollo Creed

12-26-2006, 08:20 PM	#20
Double D Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 9,901	Well I probably will within the next year. Damn old post whore.....
	www.crossfit.com

12-26-2006, 08:57 PM	#21
Burner02 Super Hero in Training Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tip of the spear! Posts: 28,291	well, mi amigo....if u get a mid-shift job w/ internet access...and basically nothing to do...and a few night owls on....you too can get the stupid post count #'s I have...
	Success leaves clues. People who produce outstanding results do specific things to create those results Nobody cares what you did yesterday or what you are going to do tomorrow. What is important is what you are doing NOW to solve our problem THERE IS NO TOMORROW! - Appollo Creed

12-26-2006, 08:58 PM	#22
Double D Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 9,901	Well thats where I am right now, at work! Easy job ya know. But I have something I am sure the next guy isnt going to be to happy about. Oh well its the first one back since xmas. He'll get over it.
	www.crossfit.com

12-26-2006, 09:02 PM	#23
Burner02 Super Hero in Training Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tip of the spear! Posts: 28,291	what would that be?
	Success leaves clues. People who produce outstanding results do specific things to create those results Nobody cares what you did yesterday or what you are going to do tomorrow. What is important is what you are doing NOW to solve our problem THERE IS NO TOMORROW! - Appollo Creed

12-26-2006, 09:04 PM	#24
Double D Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 9,901	I was suppose to change a gasket on a bleach press. I didnt get it done.
	www.crossfit.com

12-27-2006, 09:20 PM	#25
CowPimp Fueled by Testosterone Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 15,400	Yes, bench pressing works your shoulders a lot too. There are a lot of reasons why you might not have seen the results you wanted before though: diet, poor exercise selection, not enough/too much stimulation of the muscles in question, etc.
	The only time it's bad to feel the burn is when you're peeing... CowPimp Picks Up Heavy Shit MySpace YouTube Videos