Metabolism kick-start Question....

ABCs · 01-08-2007, 11:03 PM

If I may add some light on this topic... today I didn't have an apetite when I woke up. I then tried to go and run an intense workout like I have been doing and let me just say... It was FAR from stellar. I was fatigued almost instantly, I felt like shit, and my body hated me. Even if you eat a very small amount 20 - 30 min before you workout, it will help so much more.

Better yet, how about YOU give it a try. Don't eat when you wake up then go try to pull of an amazing workout, see how it uhm works out. Make a mental note of it. Then, the very next day eat a short while before you work out and see how your session goes. Then make a note of that. I will guarantee you the later will provide a much more intensive workout. Regardless, give it a try and let us know which one was better for YOU. Because after all, no one knows your body better than yourself, right?

Squaggleboggin · 01-09-2007, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KOIronclub51

this may sound like a dumb question.... but since food can jump start your metabolism.. cant water do the same thing. because when im in a hurry thats usually all i can grab

If you drink cold water, I guess some energy needs to be used up in order to raise its temperature to make it useful. But that's heat energy, which is converted from other sources. Since it has no calories, I'm guessing it's not going to actually start your metabolism, but I could be wrong.

**P-funk** · 01-09-2007, 02:49 PM

the amount of energy used to heat up cold water isn't going to do much in terms of fat loss. I don't see to many people getting lean on cold water.

You need to be more prepared with your meals. That is it. Plain and simple.

**Gazhole** · 01-09-2007, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

I don't see to many people getting lean on cold water.

If only.

Squaggleboggin · 01-09-2007, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

the amount of energy used to heat up cold water isn't going to do much in terms of fat loss. I don't see to many people getting lean on cold water.

I wasn't implying it would. I'm just too used to being perhaps a little too precise at times.

**P-funk** · 01-09-2007, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squaggleboggin

I wasn't implying it would. I'm just too used to being perhaps a little too precise at times.

Oh, I know you weren't implying that.

I was making the statement to the original poster. I was just to lazy to quote him.

ABCs · 01-10-2007, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

Oh, I know you weren't implying that.

I was making the statement to the original poster. I was just to lazy to quote him.

Too lazy? You have the back of an Ox and your too lazy to press a quote button?

**P-funk** · 01-10-2007, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ABCs

Too lazy? You have the back of an Ox and your too lazy to press a quote button?

yuor quote was on the previous page. So to be fair, I would have had to press the previous page button and then the quote button!

**Dale Mabry** · 01-10-2007, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

yuor quote was on the previous page. So to be fair, I would have had to press the previous page button and then the quote button!

And then type out a response. This isn't a 12 step program, it's real life, n*gga.

**CowPimp** · 01-10-2007, 12:59 PM

I've read studies suggesting that EPOC can be as small as 30 calories. I've also seen studies to suggest that overall caloric expenditure increases by several hundred calories the day following a high intensity exercise bout. The variance in studies is ridiculous. I don't really know what to believe.

It seems like the additional expenditure is more a function of tissue recovery than EPOC, because it does appear that several hundred calories per day is more accurate. All I can tell you is leaps and bounds faster than it was before I started lifting weights, and it was still leaps and bounds faster when I wasn't doing conditioning work as seriously as I am right now.

**P-funk** · 01-10-2007, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

I've read studies suggesting that EPOC can be as small as 30 calories. I've also seen studies to suggest that overall caloric expenditure increases by several hundred calories the day following a high intensity exercise bout. The variance in studies is ridiculous. I don't really know what to believe.

It seems like the additional expenditure is more a function of tissue recovery than EPOC, because it does appear that several hundred calories per day is more accurate. All I can tell you is leaps and bounds faster than it was before I started lifting weights, and it was still leaps and bounds faster when I wasn't doing conditioning work as seriously as I am right now.

yea, it is crazy!

I have an 18 page research review on EPOC. Emailing it out now...

**CowPimp** · 01-10-2007, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

yea, it is crazy!

I have an 18 page research review on EPOC. Emailing it out now...

Those couple of studies you sent me seem to be in agreement with what I read in my nutrition textbook (Yes, they had a good discussion on various exercise modalities to improve body composition). They basically suggest that although the EPOC is greater in higher intensity activities, overall caloric expenditure during the exercise itself seems to be of greater importance.

This is something the needs to be researched heavily in my opinion. Really, what it comes down to is research methods. There should not be such inconsistency in research results. Empirically it would appear that EPOC is more significant than they suggest. Also, there are studies like the one mentioned in the other e-mail you sent me regarding power athletes and steady state aerobic exercise, which suggest that high intensity interval training has a greater effect on body composition than aerobic exercise.

This is going to be a big one for a while.

danchubbz · 01-11-2007, 03:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

Those couple of studies you sent me seem to be in agreement with what I read in my nutrition textbook (Yes, they had a good discussion on various exercise modalities to improve body composition). They basically suggest that although the EPOC is greater in higher intensity activities, overall caloric expenditure during the exercise itself seems to be of greater importance.

This is something the needs to be researched heavily in my opinion. Really, what it comes down to is research methods. There should not be such inconsistency in research results. Empirically it would appear that EPOC is more significant than they suggest. Also, there are studies like the one mentioned in the other e-mail you sent me regarding power athletes and steady state aerobic exercise, which suggest that high intensity interval training has a greater effect on body composition than aerobic exercise.

This is going to be a big one for a while.

Have u got much research u could post regarding this. I'd pretty interested to see it if u have.

Cheers.

**P-funk** · 01-11-2007, 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danchubbz

Have u got much research u could post regarding this. I'd pretty interested to see it if u have.

Cheers.

all the research that i send these guys is PDF. I can't post PDFs on this site.

you can PM me your email addy and I will send them out to you if you want them.

**P-funk** · 01-11-2007, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

Those couple of studies you sent me seem to be in agreement with what I read in my nutrition textbook (Yes, they had a good discussion on various exercise modalities to improve body composition). They basically suggest that although the EPOC is greater in higher intensity activities, overall caloric expenditure during the exercise itself seems to be of greater importance.

This is something the needs to be researched heavily in my opinion. Really, what it comes down to is research methods. There should not be such inconsistency in research results. Empirically it would appear that EPOC is more significant than they suggest. Also, there are studies like the one mentioned in the other e-mail you sent me regarding power athletes and steady state aerobic exercise, which suggest that high intensity interval training has a greater effect on body composition than aerobic exercise.

This is going to be a big one for a while.

What I found really interesting about the research review was that, while they did say that exercise intensity seemed to trigger the greatest EPOC and that energy expenditure during exercise was most important....none of the studies looked at EPOC during the rest interval! How many calories are you burining between the interval/set?? What is O2 consuption like at this time? It has been thought that there are two phases of O2 debt. A slow phase, lasting 30min post exercise, and a fast phase, lasting immediatly following a set or interval.

That is one of the things that the research review was hinting at for further research being conducted. What are the total calories burned added together with whatever you get post workout and whatever you get in between each set.

**CowPimp** · 01-11-2007, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

What I found really interesting about the research review was that, while they did say that exercise intensity seemed to trigger the greatest EPOC and that energy expenditure during exercise was most important....none of the studies looked at EPOC during the rest interval! How many calories are you burining between the interval/set?? What is O2 consuption like at this time? It has been thought that there are two phases of O2 debt. A slow phase, lasting 30min post exercise, and a fast phase, lasting immediatly following a set or interval.

That is one of the things that the research review was hinting at for further research being conducted. What are the total calories burned added together with whatever you get post workout and whatever you get in between each set.

True that. I would imagine that is pretty damned high.

Also, are they measuring increased oxygen consumption after the workout only? Then that doesn't take into account the other necessary caloric increases for tissue recovery.

**CowPimp** · 01-11-2007, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

True that. I would imagine that is pretty damned high.

Also, are they measuring increased oxygen consumption after the workout only? Then that doesn't take into account the other necessary caloric increases for tissue recovery.

Scratch that. The more I thought about it, the more I realized that oxygen consumption would increase for tissue needs as well.

danchubbz · 01-12-2007, 09:27 AM

I'm not all that clued up on the details of EPOC, despite P-Funk's efforts to send me then research a lot of it was a bit over my head!!!!

Can u break it down in dumbass terms 4 me?!?!

**CowPimp** · 01-13-2007, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danchubbz

I'm not all that clued up on the details of EPOC, despite P-Funk's efforts to send me then research a lot of it was a bit over my head!!!!

Can u break it down in dumbass terms 4 me?!?!

Your body uses oxygen to help it produce energy. The term aerobic exercise refers to exercise which can be powered by the slower, but more effecient, energy system that utilizes oxygen to produce useable energy.

EPOC stands for excess post-exercise oxygen consumption. That is, the amount of oxygen beyond what your body would normally be intaking to sustain itself as a result of an exercise session. So, depending on the intensity and volume of exercise, this EPOC can last anywhere from a few hours to a day. This period of excess oxygen consumption may be even more according to some literature.

That increased oxygen intake is associated with an increased energy expenditure. This extra energy is needed for tissue repair and the restoration of a normal blood profile/overall homeostatic state with respect to certain hormones and chemicals such as lactic acid levels, glycogen stores, etc.

danchubbz · 01-13-2007, 04:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

Your body uses oxygen to help it produce energy. The term aerobic exercise refers to exercise which can be powered by the slower, but more effecient, energy system that utilizes oxygen to produce useable energy.

EPOC stands for excess post-exercise oxygen consumption. That is, the amount of oxygen beyond what your body would normally be intaking to sustain itself as a result of an exercise session. So, depending on the intensity and volume of exercise, this EPOC can last anywhere from a few hours to a day. This period of excess oxygen consumption may be even more according to some literature.

That increased oxygen intake is associated with an increased energy expenditure. This extra energy is needed for tissue repair and the restoration of a normal blood profile/overall homeostatic state with respect to certain hormones and chemicals such as lactic acid levels, glycogen stores, etc.

Thanks for that, really helped me out.

Quick question; I know it's gonna vary depending on the intensity of the workout and the condition on the person but in your opinion how long would EPOC last if a 27 yr. old male, 160lbs who did 25 mins of HIIT, also does EPOC last longer after HIIT or weight training (any type of weights routine that is), I'm assuming weight training but would like to confirm it.

Cheers.

**P-funk** · 01-13-2007, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danchubbz

Thanks for that, really helped me out.

Quick question; I know it's gonna vary depending on the intensity of the workout and the condition on the person but in your opinion how long would EPOC last if a 27 yr. old male, 160lbs who did 25 mins of HIIT, also does EPOC last longer after HIIT or weight training (any type of weights routine that is), I'm assuming weight training but would like to confirm it.

Cheers.

a) impossible to predict. Look at that research review!! Nothing was definite!

b) Don't worry about it. The important thing to worry about is that you work as intensly as possible to burn as many calories as you can during the workout.

Lets say, for example, that you and I are going to work out for 30min each. You do HIIT and I do steady state cardio. Now, you work very intensly, and lets say, going by one of those studies in the research review, your EPOC only amounts to 30-40 extra calories post workout (not that significant). But, during the intense intervals you were burning 15 cals per minute (15 x 30= 450 total cals). During my steady state program, I was working at a pace that was burning 8cals per minute (30 x 8 = 240cals total). The take home message is, regardless of EPOC, you have still output a greater amount of energy and at the end of the day, that is all that matters. Now, from that research review (even though I said it is insignificant in this example), lets take your 40 extra calories post workout. Lets say you did 2 interval sessions per week and lifted 3 times that week (also considered an 'interval' workout). That is 5 sessions with an extra 40 calories (again, research is conflicting and it seems to be up in the air. For all we know, it could be an extra 200calories), you would end the week with an extra deficit of 200 calories (3 x 40).

Basically, what I am saying is don't worry about all the eexercise physiology shit (unless you are interested), leave that up to the eggheads (like me), and just make sure that you work intensly in the gym.

danchubbz · 01-13-2007, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

a) impossible to predict. Look at that research review!! Nothing was definite!

b) Don't worry about it. The important thing to worry about is that you work as intensly as possible to burn as many calories as you can during the workout.

Lets say, for example, that you and I are going to work out for 30min each. You do HIIT and I do steady state cardio. Now, you work very intensly, and lets say, going by one of those studies in the research review, your EPOC only amounts to 30-40 extra calories post workout (not that significant). But, during the intense intervals you were burning 15 cals per minute (15 x 30= 450 total cals). During my steady state program, I was working at a pace that was burning 8cals per minute (30 x 8 = 240cals total). The take home message is, regardless of EPOC, you have still output a greater amount of energy and at the end of the day, that is all that matters. Now, from that research review (even though I said it is insignificant in this example), lets take your 40 extra calories post workout. Lets say you did 2 interval sessions per week and lifted 3 times that week (also considered an 'interval' workout). That is 5 sessions with an extra 40 calories (again, research is conflicting and it seems to be up in the air. For all we know, it could be an extra 200calories), you would end the week with an extra deficit of 200 calories (3 x 40).

Basically, what I am saying is don't worry about all the eexercise physiology shit (unless you are interested), leave that up to the eggheads (like me), and just make sure that you work intensly in the gym.

Top advice mate, just finished a HIIT session on the rower followed by some boxing and my body is definately telling me I've had a good workout!!!!!!!

01-09-2007, 02:49 PM	#33
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,575	the amount of energy used to heat up cold water isn't going to do much in terms of fat loss. I don't see to many people getting lean on cold water. You need to be more prepared with your meals. That is it. Plain and simple.
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! Ivonne's Blog on Health and Wellness! Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

01-10-2007, 12:59 PM	#40
CowPimp Fueled by Testosterone Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 15,428	I've read studies suggesting that EPOC can be as small as 30 calories. I've also seen studies to suggest that overall caloric expenditure increases by several hundred calories the day following a high intensity exercise bout. The variance in studies is ridiculous. I don't really know what to believe. It seems like the additional expenditure is more a function of tissue recovery than EPOC, because it does appear that several hundred calories per day is more accurate. All I can tell you is leaps and bounds faster than it was before I started lifting weights, and it was still leaps and bounds faster when I wasn't doing conditioning work as seriously as I am right now.
	The only time it's bad to feel the burn is when you're peeing... CowPimp Picks Up Heavy Shit MySpace YouTube Videos

01-12-2007, 09:27 AM	#48
danchubbz Registered User Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 287	I'm not all that clued up on the details of EPOC, despite P-Funk's efforts to send me then research a lot of it was a bit over my head!!!! Can u break it down in dumbass terms 4 me?!?!
danchubbz Registered User Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 287

01-08-2007, 11:03 PM	#31
ABCs Audios Envy Elite Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: My Mind Posts: 1,153	If I may add some light on this topic... today I didn't have an apetite when I woke up. I then tried to go and run an intense workout like I have been doing and let me just say... It was FAR from stellar. I was fatigued almost instantly, I felt like shit, and my body hated me. Even if you eat a very small amount 20 - 30 min before you workout, it will help so much more. Better yet, how about YOU give it a try. Don't eat when you wake up then go try to pull of an amazing workout, see how it uhm works out. Make a mental note of it. Then, the very next day eat a short while before you work out and see how your session goes. Then make a note of that. I will guarantee you the later will provide a much more intensive workout. Regardless, give it a try and let us know which one was better for YOU. Because after all, no one knows your body better than yourself, right?