Bill Starr 5x5 Routine

imcleish · 01-08-2007, 11:58 AM

Hey guys,
I've got Bill Starr's book, "only the strong survive" where he outlines his 5x5 or "big 3" routine, and flipping through it last night I decided to give it a try. Haven't done it in a few years, but I liked the results last time. I added/changed a couple things and wanted to see what everyone thought of my routine. Most of it is identical to what he outlines in the book. Here it is.

Monday (today)
Bench: 5x5 ramping the weight
Power cleans: 5x5 ramping the weight
Squat: 5x5 ramping the weight
good mornings (in place of leg curls): 95x20, 125x10
hack squat (in place of leg extensions): 100x20, 130x10
added in
Barbell row: 5x5 ramping the weight
Power Shrugs: 5x10 ramping the weight

Wednesday:
5x5 80% of Monday for all lifts

Friday:
5x5 90% of Monday for all lifts

I guess I'm mostly wondering about the power shrugs, whether it might be too much or not. The whole workout took me about an hour today, which means the lighter days should take even less. I'm used to doing hang cleans, and found that I wasn't quite as explosive with the power cleans, that's why I wanted to have an explosive lift like the power shrugs in there. Thanks for any help/suggestions.....

**P-funk** · 01-08-2007, 12:57 PM

Why 20 reps on the good mornings and hack squats? Those aren't in the original program.

if you change the program it is not the program.

Power cleans mean that you catch it in a position above a parallel squat. Hang cleans mean that you start from a hang position. One term denotes were you start the lift and the other denotes were you end the lift. You need to re-evaluate that and make sure that you are doing things properly.

imcleish · 01-08-2007, 01:34 PM

Yeah, I know the difference between a power clean and a hang. I just found that by starting from the floor (power), I couldn't lift as much as I could from the knees (hang) and I didn't feel as explosive. I've always done hangs, probably why. 2 sets of leg curls and extensions, 20 reps on the first set and 10 on the second are in the original program as well. I just figured I'd do good mornings instead since I like the movement more. what do you think about the power shrugs? Thanks for your help P-funk....

**P-funk** · 01-08-2007, 01:35 PM

starting from the floor does not mean that it is a power clean though. that is what i am saying. starging from the floor means you are just starting from the floor. it has nothing to do with where you catch the bar.

why do you have the power shrugs in there?

20 rep good mornings are pretty ridiculous IMO.

Witchblade · 01-08-2007, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by imcleish

Monday (today)
Bench: 5x5 ramping the weight
Power cleans: 5x5 ramping the weight
Squat: 5x5 ramping the weight
good mornings (in place of leg curls): 95x20, 125x10
hack squat (in place of leg extensions): 100x20, 130x10
added in
Barbell row: 5x5 ramping the weight
Power Shrugs: 5x10 ramping the weight

Wednesday:
5x5 80% of Monday for all lifts

Friday:
5x5 90% of Monday for all lifts

Ditch the bolded stuff. 400 sets are you insane? And shrugs are a pretty useless exercise.

imcleish · 01-08-2007, 01:45 PM

Ok, I know you know what you're talking about so I'm not going to argue with you.

I threw the shrugs in there to help train the hip explosion that I normally get when I do cleans from the knees as opposed to cleans from the floor.

When you say 20 rep good mornings are ridiculous, do you think that 20 rep leg curls are ok, or do you think that 20 rep anything is ridiculous? I tend to think the latter myself, but was just trying to use his program as a template to follow.

imcleish · 01-08-2007, 01:49 PM

thanks Witchblade, but come on. Do you really think I'm doing 400 sets? The 95x20, 125x10 refers to one set of 20 @ 95 lbs and one set of 10 @ 125....I'll drop the shrugs, good mornings and hacks. I appreciate both of your help...

**P-funk** · 01-08-2007, 01:51 PM

i think 20 rep anything are ridiculous. 20 rep breathing squats are brutal, so maybe you can throw those in at some time. But other than that....blah.

Witchblade · 01-08-2007, 01:52 PM

No wonder. That explains a lot.

**P-funk** · 01-08-2007, 01:56 PM

it does?

Witchblade · 01-08-2007, 02:05 PM

Well, it at least thrumps doing 1200 more sets per week. Heh.

Valias · 01-09-2007, 05:44 AM

Is ramping the weight necessary or productive? If you ramp the weight is it almost a warm up? if so why not just warm up prior to it and go 5x5 closer to the top weight?

dontsurfonmytur · 01-09-2007, 12:10 PM

i thought the 5x5 program was like u focus on one thing at a time
1. bench.
2. deadlifts
3. squats

or am i comletey wrong

**P-funk** · 01-09-2007, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dontsurfonmytur

i thought the 5x5 program was like u focus on one thing at a time
1. bench.
2. deadlifts
3. squats

or am i comletey wrong

it can be whatever you want it to be.

In the case of bill starr, the three exercises were:

power clean
bench
squat

dontsurfonmytur · 01-09-2007, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

it can be whatever you want it to be.

In the case of bill starr, the three exercises were:

power clean
bench
squat

so like bench one week, squat one week, power clena ok week?? or does it go by days?

**P-funk** · 01-10-2007, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dontsurfonmytur

so like bench one week, squat one week, power clena ok week?? or does it go by days?

power clean
bench
squat

on each day. three days a week.

imcleish · 01-10-2007, 09:46 AM

No, In Bill Starr's book, his program does all three exercises three days/week with a day of rest inbetween. The first day you ramp the weight for 5 sets finishing with your 5 rep max. The second day, you ramp the weight for 5 sets up to 80% of where you finished Monday. The third day, you ramp the weight up to 90% of where you finished Monday. This is his basic program. As I've found, there are many updated versions of this same program, some with barbell rows in place of cleans, some with overhead presses or incline presses in place of Bench and some with Deadlifts added in etc....

**P-funk** · 01-10-2007, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by imcleish

No, In Bill Starr's book, his program does all three exercises three days/week with a day of rest inbetween. The first day you ramp the weight for 5 sets finishing with your 5 rep max. The second day, you ramp the weight for 5 sets up to 80% of where you finished Monday. The third day, you ramp the weight up to 90% of where you finished Monday. This is his basic program. As I've found, there are many updated versions of this same program, some with barbell rows in place of cleans, some with overhead presses or incline presses in place of Bench and some with Deadlifts added in etc....

Did you not read what I wrote?

Let me quote myself.....

power clean
bench
squat

on each day. three days a week.

imcleish · 01-10-2007, 02:14 PM

Nope. Didn't read what you wrote. I was replying to dontsurfonmytur......

**P-funk** · 01-10-2007, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by imcleish

Nope. Didn't read what you wrote. I was replying to dontsurfonmytur......

lmao....I appreciate your honesty.

imcleish · 01-10-2007, 02:19 PM

yeah. His post was the last of page 1 and I replied to it. Right after mine was posted, I saw yours before it and thought sh$t, this doesn't look good. LOL....

**CowPimp** · 01-10-2007, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valias

Is ramping the weight necessary or productive? If you ramp the weight is it almost a warm up? if so why not just warm up prior to it and go 5x5 closer to the top weight?

Bill Starr's program uses variations of 5x5 to balance intensity and volume. When ramping up on each set, you are really going for a 5RM with some additional volume in the form of the warm-up sets. That is your more strength oriented day.

When doing 5x5 with the same weight each set using something like your 8RM, you are accumulating more total volume, but the intensity level is lower. This day is more oriented toward hypertrophy and work capacity.

There is another day where you ramp up over 5x5 but stop 20% short of your 5RM, which is an unload day. This day is geared toward neural recovery.

Valias · 01-12-2007, 07:44 AM

Thanks.

01-08-2007, 11:58 AM	#1
imcleish Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 45	Bill Starr 5x5 Routine Hey guys, I've got Bill Starr's book, "only the strong survive" where he outlines his 5x5 or "big 3" routine, and flipping through it last night I decided to give it a try. Haven't done it in a few years, but I liked the results last time. I added/changed a couple things and wanted to see what everyone thought of my routine. Most of it is identical to what he outlines in the book. Here it is. Monday (today) Bench: 5x5 ramping the weight Power cleans: 5x5 ramping the weight Squat: 5x5 ramping the weight good mornings (in place of leg curls): 95x20, 125x10 hack squat (in place of leg extensions): 100x20, 130x10 added in Barbell row: 5x5 ramping the weight Power Shrugs: 5x10 ramping the weight Wednesday: 5x5 80% of Monday for all lifts Friday: 5x5 90% of Monday for all lifts I guess I'm mostly wondering about the power shrugs, whether it might be too much or not. The whole workout took me about an hour today, which means the lighter days should take even less. I'm used to doing hang cleans, and found that I wasn't quite as explosive with the power cleans, that's why I wanted to have an explosive lift like the power shrugs in there. Thanks for any help/suggestions.....
imcleish Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 45	Current Status: Height: 5'11", Weight: 180, Bench: 310, Hang Clean: 265, Deadlift: 420

01-08-2007, 12:57 PM	#2
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,645	Why 20 reps on the good mornings and hack squats? Those aren't in the original program. if you change the program it is not the program. Power cleans mean that you catch it in a position above a parallel squat. Hang cleans mean that you start from a hang position. One term denotes were you start the lift and the other denotes were you end the lift. You need to re-evaluate that and make sure that you are doing things properly.
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! Ivonne's Blog on Health and Wellness! Looking for online training/coaching/consulting? --> Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

01-08-2007, 01:34 PM	#3
imcleish Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 45	Yeah, I know the difference between a power clean and a hang. I just found that by starting from the floor (power), I couldn't lift as much as I could from the knees (hang) and I didn't feel as explosive. I've always done hangs, probably why. 2 sets of leg curls and extensions, 20 reps on the first set and 10 on the second are in the original program as well. I just figured I'd do good mornings instead since I like the movement more. what do you think about the power shrugs? Thanks for your help P-funk....
imcleish Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 45	Current Status: Height: 5'11", Weight: 180, Bench: 310, Hang Clean: 265, Deadlift: 420

01-08-2007, 01:35 PM	#4
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,645	starting from the floor does not mean that it is a power clean though. that is what i am saying. starging from the floor means you are just starting from the floor. it has nothing to do with where you catch the bar. why do you have the power shrugs in there? 20 rep good mornings are pretty ridiculous IMO.
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! Ivonne's Blog on Health and Wellness! Looking for online training/coaching/consulting? --> Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

01-08-2007, 01:45 PM	#6
imcleish Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 45	Ok, I know you know what you're talking about so I'm not going to argue with you. I threw the shrugs in there to help train the hip explosion that I normally get when I do cleans from the knees as opposed to cleans from the floor. When you say 20 rep good mornings are ridiculous, do you think that 20 rep leg curls are ok, or do you think that 20 rep anything is ridiculous? I tend to think the latter myself, but was just trying to use his program as a template to follow.
imcleish Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 45	Current Status: Height: 5'11", Weight: 180, Bench: 310, Hang Clean: 265, Deadlift: 420

01-08-2007, 01:49 PM	#7
imcleish Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 45	thanks Witchblade, but come on. Do you really think I'm doing 400 sets? The 95x20, 125x10 refers to one set of 20 @ 95 lbs and one set of 10 @ 125....I'll drop the shrugs, good mornings and hacks. I appreciate both of your help...
imcleish Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 45	Current Status: Height: 5'11", Weight: 180, Bench: 310, Hang Clean: 265, Deadlift: 420

01-08-2007, 01:51 PM	#8
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,645	i think 20 rep anything are ridiculous. 20 rep breathing squats are brutal, so maybe you can throw those in at some time. But other than that....blah.
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! Ivonne's Blog on Health and Wellness! Looking for online training/coaching/consulting? --> Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

01-08-2007, 01:52 PM	#9
Witchblade Succinct Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Holland Posts: 4,443 Photos: 2	No wonder. That explains a lot.
	My Linkdump [LSFW] IM Official FAQ [WORK IN PROGRESS]

01-08-2007, 01:56 PM	#10
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,645	it does?
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! Ivonne's Blog on Health and Wellness! Looking for online training/coaching/consulting? --> Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

01-08-2007, 02:05 PM	#11
Witchblade Succinct Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Holland Posts: 4,443 Photos: 2	Well, it at least thrumps doing 1200 more sets per week. Heh.
	My Linkdump [LSFW] IM Official FAQ [WORK IN PROGRESS]

01-09-2007, 05:44 AM	#12
Valias Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Brisbane Posts: 276 Photos: 5	Is ramping the weight necessary or productive? If you ramp the weight is it almost a warm up? if so why not just warm up prior to it and go 5x5 closer to the top weight?
	"I'll eat all the damned Ham, Cheese, Tomato, Onion toasted sandwhiches I want." -Val

01-09-2007, 12:10 PM	#13
dontsurfonmytur Registered User Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 1,007	i thought the 5x5 program was like u focus on one thing at a time 1. bench. 2. deadlifts 3. squats or am i comletey wrong

01-10-2007, 09:46 AM	#17
imcleish Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 45	No, In Bill Starr's book, his program does all three exercises three days/week with a day of rest inbetween. The first day you ramp the weight for 5 sets finishing with your 5 rep max. The second day, you ramp the weight for 5 sets up to 80% of where you finished Monday. The third day, you ramp the weight up to 90% of where you finished Monday. This is his basic program. As I've found, there are many updated versions of this same program, some with barbell rows in place of cleans, some with overhead presses or incline presses in place of Bench and some with Deadlifts added in etc....
imcleish Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 45	Current Status: Height: 5'11", Weight: 180, Bench: 310, Hang Clean: 265, Deadlift: 420

01-10-2007, 02:14 PM	#19
imcleish Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 45	Nope. Didn't read what you wrote. I was replying to dontsurfonmytur......
imcleish Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 45	Current Status: Height: 5'11", Weight: 180, Bench: 310, Hang Clean: 265, Deadlift: 420

01-10-2007, 02:19 PM	#21
imcleish Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 45	yeah. His post was the last of page 1 and I replied to it. Right after mine was posted, I saw yours before it and thought sh$t, this doesn't look good. LOL....
imcleish Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 45	Current Status: Height: 5'11", Weight: 180, Bench: 310, Hang Clean: 265, Deadlift: 420

01-12-2007, 07:44 AM	#23
Valias Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Brisbane Posts: 276 Photos: 5	Thanks.
	"I'll eat all the damned Ham, Cheese, Tomato, Onion toasted sandwhiches I want." -Val

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