Cardio and fat burning

Toughenuff · 01-27-2007, 07:21 PM

While you're doing cardio does ur body burn thru glycogen and then start burning fat or is it more designed just to help create a calorie deficit for the day?

Hope my question makes sense, thanks!

Freighter · 01-27-2007, 08:48 PM

Cardio burns a combination of fat, glycogen, and, in extreme situations, muscle. How much of each depends on the conditioning of the individual, diet, and the duration and intensity of the workout.

If I remember correctly, after the first 20 minutes or so of moderately intense exercise (about 60% of max heart rate), the average trainee is burning about 60-70% of the calories from fat and the rest from glycogen. The better shape you are in and the better your diet the more of your calories will come from fat.

mrmark · 01-28-2007, 06:47 AM

In new athletes, fat is recruited much later in the cardio session BUT with continued training, you body will begin metabolising fat much sooner, in conjunction with the glycogen stores.

Uthinkso · 01-29-2007, 08:00 PM

Good thread, I'm interested to see this as I've been doing my 30-35min cardio sessions at 60-65%of my max heart rate which settles in between 135-140bpm.

JOHNYORK · 01-29-2007, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freighter

Cardio burns a combination of fat, glycogen, and, in extreme situations, muscle. How much of each depends on the conditioning of the individual, diet, and the duration and intensity of the workout.

If I remember correctly, after the first 20 minutes or so of moderately intense exercise (about 60% of max heart rate), the average trainee is burning about 60-70% of the calories from fat and the rest from glycogen. The better shape you are in and the better your diet the more of your calories will come from fat.

wat does cardio burn the first 20 min than if it only startrs burnin fat/gly after 20min mark? excuse me if i misunderstood ure post

**P-funk** · 01-29-2007, 09:58 PM

I don't even know where to start with this thread.

i am tired.

lots of misinformation.

Uthinkso · 01-30-2007, 05:35 AM

Come on funk-master your always pretty knowledgable I'd like to see your response today after you've had a good night to sleep on it.

Hammerlynn · 01-30-2007, 08:51 AM

I'm interested in the correct info on this one. With what's been said...it would negate the whole HIIT theory.

**P-funk** · 01-30-2007, 06:28 PM

I'll try and get to it tonight. I have a busy evening right now.

Short answer for the moment......it is going to take a few hours of exercise to completely deplete liver glycogen (provided you aren't starving yourself).

**P-funk** · 01-30-2007, 07:58 PM

when you do cardio, your body does burn through glycogen and then it will start to tap into some fat stores....however, you aren't doing cardio long enough for this to happen. This usually happens for people around mile 18 or 20 of a marathon, and then they hit the wall. They are trying to rely on fat, which burns very slowly without some carbohydrates to help provide kreb cycle intermediates and make the kreb cycle efficiently work in order to provide you with the energy needed for the task at hand.

The longer the duration of exercise, the more there is a shift towards fat utilization, however, you will always be burning a percentage. Worry about the percentage is silly. Think about it.....the 'fat burning zone' happens at a really low haert rate. In fact, we burn more fat at rest than anything else. if you want to burn the highest percentage of your calories from fat, take a nap!!

You have to just focus on overal calories expended. At the end of the day, that is what is going to tell you if you are making strides towards your fat loss goals.

If low intensity cardiovasuclar exercise were the only way to get lean, then sprinters would be fat as hell....think about their training....run 100m, rest, 100m, rest, run 50m, rest, run 50m, rest.....or 400m tempo run, rest, 400m, tempo run, rest, etc.....On the contrary, they are leaner and more muscular than the marathon runners, and those elite marathon runners are skinny and lean because they are ELITE! They have a higher ratio of type I fibers and they are efficient at using fat as fuel. That is genetics. Evera watch a marathon? After the first 100 or 200 people, most of the others that are coming are some of the most out of shape (and in some cases fat) people I have ever seen (not all of them).

Finally, lets just look at percentage of carbs to fats burned during high intensity exercise and long duration exercise. these are just hypothetical numbers.

Lets say we both go in the gym to do 30min of cardio.

I do sprints and you do long duration fat burning cardio.

You are at a work rate of 8 cals per minute and about 70% of your cals are coming from fat. So, in 30min, you have 240 calories burned w/168 of those coming from "fat".

I do sprints and I am at a work rate of 15 cals per min. on my interval and 8 cals per min. on my recovery (equal to your slow cardio). lets say I am doing 30sec intervals of work and 60sec. intervals of recover for the 30min, period. Since I am doing sprints, the percentage of fat being used will be less since my heart rate is increasing and I am using anaerobic pathways. So, lets say on the intense intervals I 30% of the cals coming from fat and on the recovery I am at 70% of the cals coming from fat (like you). So, lets do the math. In 30min., I would be able to get 20 sprints and 20 recover intervals. So, for my sprints, I have 15 cals per min x 10min (since each sprint is 30sec. 20/2= 10) = 150 cals with 45 of them coming from fat. For my recovery, I have 8 cals per min x 20min = 160 cals w/112 of those cals coming from fat.

Now, at the end of that 30min, I have burned 262 total calories, with 157 of those calories coming from fat.

You have burned only 240 calories, w/168 of them coming from fat.

I have created a greater caloric defecit. Now also, this is not counting execess post exercise oxygen consuption that I get when I am done with the exercise because of the intensity of the intervals, and this does not count the excess oxygen consumption I get DURING the workout on my recovery intervals because of the intensity of my work. So, overal, I win on every account.

danchubbz · 01-31-2007, 02:29 AM

good info P-Funk

Uthinkso · 01-31-2007, 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

when you do cardio, your body does burn through glycogen and then it will start to tap into some fat stores....however, you aren't doing cardio long enough for this to happen. This usually happens for people around mile 18 or 20 of a marathon, and then they hit the wall. They are trying to rely on fat, which burns very slowly without some carbohydrates to help provide kreb cycle intermediates and make the kreb cycle efficiently work in order to provide you with the energy needed for the task at hand.

The longer the duration of exercise, the more there is a shift towards fat utilization, however, you will always be burning a percentage. Worry about the percentage is silly. Think about it.....the 'fat burning zone' happens at a really low haert rate. In fact, we burn more fat at rest than anything else. if you want to burn the highest percentage of your calories from fat, take a nap!!

You have to just focus on overal calories expended. At the end of the day, that is what is going to tell you if you are making strides towards your fat loss goals.

If low intensity cardiovasuclar exercise were the only way to get lean, then sprinters would be fat as hell....think about their training....run 100m, rest, 100m, rest, run 50m, rest, run 50m, rest.....or 400m tempo run, rest, 400m, tempo run, rest, etc.....On the contrary, they are leaner and more muscular than the marathon runners, and those elite marathon runners are skinny and lean because they are ELITE! They have a higher ratio of type I fibers and they are efficient at using fat as fuel. That is genetics. Evera watch a marathon? After the first 100 or 200 people, most of the others that are coming are some of the most out of shape (and in some cases fat) people I have ever seen (not all of them).

Finally, lets just look at percentage of carbs to fats burned during high intensity exercise and long duration exercise. these are just hypothetical numbers.

Lets say we both go in the gym to do 30min of cardio.

I do sprints and you do long duration fat burning cardio.

You are at a work rate of 8 cals per minute and about 70% of your cals are coming from fat. So, in 30min, you have 240 calories burned w/168 of those coming from "fat".

I do sprints and I am at a work rate of 15 cals per min. on my interval and 8 cals per min. on my recovery (equal to your slow cardio). lets say I am doing 30sec intervals of work and 60sec. intervals of recover for the 30min, period. Since I am doing sprints, the percentage of fat being used will be less since my heart rate is increasing and I am using anaerobic pathways. So, lets say on the intense intervals I 30% of the cals coming from fat and on the recovery I am at 70% of the cals coming from fat (like you). So, lets do the math. In 30min., I would be able to get 20 sprints and 20 recover intervals. So, for my sprints, I have 15 cals per min x 10min (since each sprint is 30sec. 20/2= 10) = 150 cals with 45 of them coming from fat. For my recovery, I have 8 cals per min x 20min = 160 cals w/112 of those cals coming from fat.

Now, at the end of that 30min, I have burned 262 total calories, with 157 of those calories coming from fat.

You have burned only 240 calories, w/168 of them coming from fat.

I have created a greater caloric defecit. Now also, this is not counting execess post exercise oxygen consuption that I get when I am done with the exercise because of the intensity of the intervals, and this does not count the excess oxygen consumption I get DURING the workout on my recovery intervals because of the intensity of my work. So, overal, I win on every account.

Good write up you had me right until the final computation. If you lost a greater caloric number but I lost a greater number of calories from Fat doesn't that make me the winner?? Please clarify.

I've been doing a combination of sprinting and low impact cardio and this is very interesting to me. I typically burn 175cal in 25min.

**P-funk** · 01-31-2007, 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uthinkso

Good write up you had me right until the final computation. If you lost a greater caloric number but I lost a greater number of calories from Fat doesn't that make me the winner?? Please clarify.

I've been doing a combination of sprinting and low impact cardio and this is very interesting to me. I typically burn 175cal in 25min.

Did you read the rest of the information in that post?

A greater caloric deficit is always going to create more fat loss. Plain and simple. Also, with the interval training, you get things like EPOC.....as I stated, we are burning more calories during the recovery interval, however the equiptment we are on can not quantify that for us because it is only working off the output we are giving to it. It doesn't know what is going on in our bodies. Also, you get more calories burned over a greater period of time post workout. During all those instances my caloric defecit will exceed your even further, making my fat loss more significant.

Worry about the percentage of fat you are burning is stupid as hell. It is like lifting weights and worrying about how much muscle you are building in each training session. It doesn't make sense at all. Just know that you have to go in and do "work".

Also, depending on whether you are in a fed state or not, this is going to affect how much fat you are burning. Read back to where I said that it would take several hours to actually deplete your glycogen stores. You need to remeber that your body is always going to burn glucose and glycogen first. So, that percentage is going to be affected.

Things are not all equal. Just worry about burning the most calories that you can. This will be achieved by sprinting.

**P-funk** · 01-31-2007, 05:50 AM

like I said, if you want to burn the MOST amount of fat, do nothing. Sit down all day. That will burn your greatest percentage of fat.

Uthinkso · 01-31-2007, 07:46 AM

Alright I'm with ya, sprinting and recover for a min it is.

runlift22 · 01-31-2007, 08:15 AM

on a clean bulk (and lifting hard and heavy 5 days a week in afternoons), do you feel it is detrimental to do 30-35 minutes of cardio upon waking IF one consumes a protein shake with a tablespoon or so of peanut butter before hand, and drinks BCAA's during?

What would be the best cardio to do bulking? Because HIIT may be too demanding, but I don't want to recruit too many slow twitch fibers oing S.S. Could I do a combo of both, and how does this affect my leg growth?

**P-funk** · 01-31-2007, 08:09 PM

depends on what you are doing in your lifting on those 5 days....etc....to much stuff to think about.

01-27-2007, 07:21 PM	#1
Toughenuff Registered User Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 139	Cardio and fat burning While you're doing cardio does ur body burn thru glycogen and then start burning fat or is it more designed just to help create a calorie deficit for the day? Hope my question makes sense, thanks!

01-27-2007, 08:48 PM	#2
Freighter Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 26	Cardio burns a combination of fat, glycogen, and, in extreme situations, muscle. How much of each depends on the conditioning of the individual, diet, and the duration and intensity of the workout. If I remember correctly, after the first 20 minutes or so of moderately intense exercise (about 60% of max heart rate), the average trainee is burning about 60-70% of the calories from fat and the rest from glycogen. The better shape you are in and the better your diet the more of your calories will come from fat.
Freighter Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 26

01-28-2007, 06:47 AM	#3
mrmark Londoner Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: London Posts: 999 Photos: 1	In new athletes, fat is recruited much later in the cardio session BUT with continued training, you body will begin metabolising fat much sooner, in conjunction with the glycogen stores.
	I love it when a plan comes together.

01-29-2007, 08:00 PM	#4
Uthinkso Go on....DO IT!!! Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Detroit Posts: 1,298 Photos: 3	Good thread, I'm interested to see this as I've been doing my 30-35min cardio sessions at 60-65%of my max heart rate which settles in between 135-140bpm.
	"Everyone has a plan 'til they get punched in the face".-Mike Tyson http://www.fitday.com/WebFit/PublicJ...ner=ndagostino Myspace

01-29-2007, 09:58 PM	#6
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,443	I don't even know where to start with this thread. i am tired. lots of misinformation.
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! http://ivonneberkowitz.blogspot.com/....check out Ivonne's new blog! Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

01-30-2007, 05:35 AM	#7
Uthinkso Go on....DO IT!!! Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Detroit Posts: 1,298 Photos: 3	Come on funk-master your always pretty knowledgable I'd like to see your response today after you've had a good night to sleep on it.
	"Everyone has a plan 'til they get punched in the face".-Mike Tyson http://www.fitday.com/WebFit/PublicJ...ner=ndagostino Myspace

01-30-2007, 08:51 AM	#8
Hammerlynn Former Fat Girl Elite Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: NW Indiana Posts: 1,376	I'm interested in the correct info on this one. With what's been said...it would negate the whole HIIT theory.
	Completed: Indianapolis Mini Marathon 2004 and 2005 Valparaiso Mini Marathon 2006 Chicago Marathon 2004 and 2006 www.myspace.com/fitness_runner

01-30-2007, 06:28 PM	#9
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,443	I'll try and get to it tonight. I have a busy evening right now. Short answer for the moment......it is going to take a few hours of exercise to completely deplete liver glycogen (provided you aren't starving yourself).
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! http://ivonneberkowitz.blogspot.com/....check out Ivonne's new blog! Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

01-30-2007, 07:58 PM	#10
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,443	when you do cardio, your body does burn through glycogen and then it will start to tap into some fat stores....however, you aren't doing cardio long enough for this to happen. This usually happens for people around mile 18 or 20 of a marathon, and then they hit the wall. They are trying to rely on fat, which burns very slowly without some carbohydrates to help provide kreb cycle intermediates and make the kreb cycle efficiently work in order to provide you with the energy needed for the task at hand. The longer the duration of exercise, the more there is a shift towards fat utilization, however, you will always be burning a percentage. Worry about the percentage is silly. Think about it.....the 'fat burning zone' happens at a really low haert rate. In fact, we burn more fat at rest than anything else. if you want to burn the highest percentage of your calories from fat, take a nap!! You have to just focus on overal calories expended. At the end of the day, that is what is going to tell you if you are making strides towards your fat loss goals. If low intensity cardiovasuclar exercise were the only way to get lean, then sprinters would be fat as hell....think about their training....run 100m, rest, 100m, rest, run 50m, rest, run 50m, rest.....or 400m tempo run, rest, 400m, tempo run, rest, etc.....On the contrary, they are leaner and more muscular than the marathon runners, and those elite marathon runners are skinny and lean because they are ELITE! They have a higher ratio of type I fibers and they are efficient at using fat as fuel. That is genetics. Evera watch a marathon? After the first 100 or 200 people, most of the others that are coming are some of the most out of shape (and in some cases fat) people I have ever seen (not all of them). Finally, lets just look at percentage of carbs to fats burned during high intensity exercise and long duration exercise. these are just hypothetical numbers. Lets say we both go in the gym to do 30min of cardio. I do sprints and you do long duration fat burning cardio. You are at a work rate of 8 cals per minute and about 70% of your cals are coming from fat. So, in 30min, you have 240 calories burned w/168 of those coming from "fat". I do sprints and I am at a work rate of 15 cals per min. on my interval and 8 cals per min. on my recovery (equal to your slow cardio). lets say I am doing 30sec intervals of work and 60sec. intervals of recover for the 30min, period. Since I am doing sprints, the percentage of fat being used will be less since my heart rate is increasing and I am using anaerobic pathways. So, lets say on the intense intervals I 30% of the cals coming from fat and on the recovery I am at 70% of the cals coming from fat (like you). So, lets do the math. In 30min., I would be able to get 20 sprints and 20 recover intervals. So, for my sprints, I have 15 cals per min x 10min (since each sprint is 30sec. 20/2= 10) = 150 cals with 45 of them coming from fat. For my recovery, I have 8 cals per min x 20min = 160 cals w/112 of those cals coming from fat. Now, at the end of that 30min, I have burned 262 total calories, with 157 of those calories coming from fat. You have burned only 240 calories, w/168 of them coming from fat. I have created a greater caloric defecit. Now also, this is not counting execess post exercise oxygen consuption that I get when I am done with the exercise because of the intensity of the intervals, and this does not count the excess oxygen consumption I get DURING the workout on my recovery intervals because of the intensity of my work. So, overal, I win on every account.
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! http://ivonneberkowitz.blogspot.com/....check out Ivonne's new blog! Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

01-31-2007, 02:29 AM	#11
danchubbz Registered User Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 287	good info P-Funk
danchubbz Registered User Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 287

01-31-2007, 05:50 AM	#14
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,443	like I said, if you want to burn the MOST amount of fat, do nothing. Sit down all day. That will burn your greatest percentage of fat.
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! http://ivonneberkowitz.blogspot.com/....check out Ivonne's new blog! Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

01-31-2007, 07:46 AM	#15
Uthinkso Go on....DO IT!!! Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Detroit Posts: 1,298 Photos: 3	Alright I'm with ya, sprinting and recover for a min it is.
	"Everyone has a plan 'til they get punched in the face".-Mike Tyson http://www.fitday.com/WebFit/PublicJ...ner=ndagostino Myspace

01-31-2007, 08:15 AM	#16
runlift22 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 39	on a clean bulk (and lifting hard and heavy 5 days a week in afternoons), do you feel it is detrimental to do 30-35 minutes of cardio upon waking IF one consumes a protein shake with a tablespoon or so of peanut butter before hand, and drinks BCAA's during? What would be the best cardio to do bulking? Because HIIT may be too demanding, but I don't want to recruit too many slow twitch fibers oing S.S. Could I do a combo of both, and how does this affect my leg growth?
runlift22 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 39

01-31-2007, 08:09 PM	#17
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,443	depends on what you are doing in your lifting on those 5 days....etc....to much stuff to think about.
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! http://ivonneberkowitz.blogspot.com/....check out Ivonne's new blog! Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

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