Informative article

Nate K · 01-30-2007, 12:55 PM

http://www.afpafitness.com/articles/...ixBackPain.htm

This article was/is very helpful to me. Do you trainers agree with everthing?

Nate K · 01-30-2007, 01:14 PM

It's about back pain.

Yanick · 01-30-2007, 01:34 PM

Cool article, just gave it a breeze through but it seems to cover most bases for the layman.

I will be showing this article to a few friends with recurring back pain who don't seem to take my word for these sorts of things.

**CowPimp** · 01-30-2007, 09:06 PM

I also didn't really read through it. At first glance it looks like there is a lot of good information to put to use, but I would have to give it a more thorough looksee before I really release a verdict on it (Of course, what the Hell do I know?).

kcoleman · 01-30-2007, 09:25 PM

Quote:

A recent phenomenon in fitness and "health" magazines is to picture models standing and exercising with their hips and behinds stuck out and their back arched. This is a major cause of back pain and injury. It is not attractive, it is sloppy posture, unhealthy for the low back, and shows a lack of understanding of how to use core muscles to control torso posture. The article may state to keep the back straight, or to keep "neutral spine" but the photos show badly arched posture. Trainers often tell clients to stick their behinds out when squatting or lunging, however this is anatomically damaging to the low back and does not use core muscles effectively.

??????????????????????????????????????????????????

kcoleman · 01-30-2007, 09:29 PM

the article is also trying to tell me to lunge instead of deadlift.

**P-funk** · 01-30-2007, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcoleman

??????????????????????????????????????????????????

what is confusing about that?

Nate K · 01-30-2007, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

what is confusing about that?

hehe..

Nate K · 01-30-2007, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

(Of course, what the Hell do I know?).

A whole buncha lotta stuff!

Nate K · 01-30-2007, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcoleman

the article is also trying to tell me to lunge instead of deadlift.

No it's not!

kcoleman · 01-30-2007, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nate K

No it's not!

The article links to another article which states:

"Deadlifting. Deadlifting is an exercise where you bend right over at the waist to lift a weight. You already know you should not lean over from the waist or hips to lift things around the house or at work. Yet you probably do this hundreds of times every day - making the bed, lifting laundry, looking in the refrigerator, petting the dog, lifting children and packages, picking things up … all day every day. Then you go to the gym to do straight legged dead-lifting. Trainers claim it works the back and leg muscles. That is true but at the price of slowly (or quickly) harming your discs and other structures. You're straining your back and missing a built-in opportunity to exercise your legs and burn calories if you would only lift properly.

Deadlifting is another example of something that may "work" in one way but still have other undesirable effects. Like smoking to lose weight, it will "work" but is unhealthy for other reasons. Learn to think critically and understand that often several factors go into evaluating overall worth of an exercise. Instead, bend your knees for lunges that train you for daily lifting and exercises your legs at the same time."

kcoleman · 01-30-2007, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

what is confusing about that?

It seems contradictory to all the talk about proper squat/deadlift form I've ever read about for one...

Nate K · 01-30-2007, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcoleman

The article links to another article which states:

"Deadlifting. Deadlifting is an exercise where you bend right over at the waist to lift a weight. You already know you should not lean over from the waist or hips to lift things around the house or at work. Yet you probably do this hundreds of times every day - making the bed, lifting laundry, looking in the refrigerator, petting the dog, lifting children and packages, picking things up … all day every day. Then you go to the gym to do straight legged dead-lifting. Trainers claim it works the back and leg muscles. That is true but at the price of slowly (or quickly) harming your discs and other structures. You're straining your back and missing a built-in opportunity to exercise your legs and burn calories if you would only lift properly.

Deadlifting is another example of something that may "work" in one way but still have other undesirable effects. Like smoking to lose weight, it will "work" but is unhealthy for other reasons. Learn to think critically and understand that often several factors go into evaluating overall worth of an exercise. Instead, bend your knees for lunges that train you for daily lifting and exercises your legs at the same time."

Yeah, this part of this article is stufid....as if it is natural to never bend over to pick something up....

Nate K · 01-30-2007, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcoleman

It seems contradictory to all the talk about proper squat/deadlift form I've ever read about for one...

POST !000.

The way I see it is that you shouldn't overly compress your spine by having it round out as much as possible by sticking your ass out as much as possible. It makes sense that this would put lots of pressure on the posterior portion of the lower discs. You should use your "core" musculature to keep the spine more neutral....I think this is right.

**P-funk** · 01-30-2007, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcoleman

It seems contradictory to all the talk about proper squat/deadlift form I've ever read about for one...

the spine should be neutral.

some arch would be okay....but, to much arch places pressure on the back as close the gap on the intervertebral foreman.

**P-funk** · 01-30-2007, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcoleman

The article links to another article which states:

"Deadlifting. Deadlifting is an exercise where you bend right over at the waist to lift a weight. You already know you should not lean over from the waist or hips to lift things around the house or at work. Yet you probably do this hundreds of times every day - making the bed, lifting laundry, looking in the refrigerator, petting the dog, lifting children and packages, picking things up … all day every day. Then you go to the gym to do straight legged dead-lifting. Trainers claim it works the back and leg muscles. That is true but at the price of slowly (or quickly) harming your discs and other structures. You're straining your back and missing a built-in opportunity to exercise your legs and burn calories if you would only lift properly.

Deadlifting is another example of something that may "work" in one way but still have other undesirable effects. Like smoking to lose weight, it will "work" but is unhealthy for other reasons. Learn to think critically and understand that often several factors go into evaluating overall worth of an exercise. Instead, bend your knees for lunges that train you for daily lifting and exercises your legs at the same time."

I would agree with that. It is a dangerous exercise and it places you in a compromising position.

Witchblade · 01-31-2007, 12:27 PM

Well yeah it's dangerous, but bodyweight deadlifts done with proper form won't harm you one bit I think. I can't imagine lunging all day picking things up. You'd get some crazy looks there. Besides, you're not in a balanced position in a lunge nor can you practically use both your hands to pick something up.

**P-funk** · 01-31-2007, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Witchblade

Well yeah it's dangerous, but bodyweight deadlifts done with proper form won't harm you one bit I think. I can't imagine lunging all day picking things up. You'd get some crazy looks there. Besides, you're not in a balanced position in a lunge nor can you practically use both your hands to pick something up.

you aren't thinking about it the right way. Objects that are smaller, you wont be able to deadlift/squat down to to pick them up. You have to pick them up one foot infront of the other. This is a common way to teach someone to lift something.

**CowPimp** · 01-31-2007, 08:57 PM

I don't agree that deadlifts are harmful to the discs in your back. Disc herniation and bulges seem to be caused by repeated cycles of or continuous spinal flexion (Sitting in a chair slumped over all day long).

You aren't "straining" your back. That's an ignorant statement. Are you imposing load on the tissues in your spinal column? Yes, but you are also imposing a load on the tissues in your knee joint, hip joint, and of course spine when you do a front squat or a lunge, the tissues in your shoulders and elbows when you press and pull, and so on.

Given sufficient time for recovery, these tissues will get stronger and the threshold for tissue failure should increase. This is why I like to avoid direct loading of my spine from time to time. This allows the tissues to adapt and improvements in tissue integrity to take place. Varying the types of movements you do is also key, as certain movements stress various joint structures to different degrees allowing recovery of the lesser-stressed structures.

01-30-2007, 12:55 PM	#1
Nate K Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,676 Photos: 3	Informative article http://www.afpafitness.com/articles/...ixBackPain.htm This article was/is very helpful to me. Do you trainers agree with everthing?

01-30-2007, 01:34 PM	#3
Yanick Amor Fati Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,798	Cool article, just gave it a breeze through but it seems to cover most bases for the layman. I will be showing this article to a few friends with recurring back pain who don't seem to take my word for these sorts of things.
Yanick Amor Fati Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,798	"...we have to remember that training is a complicated dance of stimuli and response. Our goal is to understand how to manipulate the stimuli in order to evoke the responses we desire." -Nathan J. Polenchek

01-30-2007, 09:06 PM	#4
CowPimp Fueled by Testosterone Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 15,405	I also didn't really read through it. At first glance it looks like there is a lot of good information to put to use, but I would have to give it a more thorough looksee before I really release a verdict on it (Of course, what the Hell do I know?).
	The only time it's bad to feel the burn is when you're peeing... CowPimp Picks Up Heavy Shit MySpace YouTube Videos

01-31-2007, 12:27 PM	#17
Witchblade Succinct Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Holland Posts: 4,359 Photos: 2	Well yeah it's dangerous, but bodyweight deadlifts done with proper form won't harm you one bit I think. I can't imagine lunging all day picking things up. You'd get some crazy looks there. Besides, you're not in a balanced position in a lunge nor can you practically use both your hands to pick something up.
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01-31-2007, 08:57 PM	#19
CowPimp Fueled by Testosterone Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 15,405	I don't agree that deadlifts are harmful to the discs in your back. Disc herniation and bulges seem to be caused by repeated cycles of or continuous spinal flexion (Sitting in a chair slumped over all day long). You aren't "straining" your back. That's an ignorant statement. Are you imposing load on the tissues in your spinal column? Yes, but you are also imposing a load on the tissues in your knee joint, hip joint, and of course spine when you do a front squat or a lunge, the tissues in your shoulders and elbows when you press and pull, and so on. Given sufficient time for recovery, these tissues will get stronger and the threshold for tissue failure should increase. This is why I like to avoid direct loading of my spine from time to time. This allows the tissues to adapt and improvements in tissue integrity to take place. Varying the types of movements you do is also key, as certain movements stress various joint structures to different degrees allowing recovery of the lesser-stressed structures.
	The only time it's bad to feel the burn is when you're peeing... CowPimp Picks Up Heavy Shit MySpace YouTube Videos

01-30-2007, 01:14 PM	#2
Nate K Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,676 Photos: 3	It's about back pain.

01-30-2007, 09:29 PM	#6
kcoleman Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: . Posts: 533	the article is also trying to tell me to lunge instead of deadlift.

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