Thread: no matter what, my arms are small compared to my chest and shoulders

Try heavy rows/pullups for bi's and heavy bench, close grip, and skull crushers.

Maybe they aren't growing because they don't get enough rest. What does your program look like?

stop focusing on isolation movements, work on building your body through compound movements and gaining overall bodyweight and mass, you're arms will follow.

My arms got massive when I stopped doing isolation work. Dips and pull-ups will build up your arms nicely.

Originally Posted by Prince

stop focusing on isolation movements, work on building your body through compound movements and gaining overall bodyweight and mass, you're arms will follow.

I second this (though I still enjoy isolation work). No amount of calf raises made my calves explode as much as doing Back Squat three times a week did.

From what I understand, the best 3 exercises for triceps (newcomers anyways) are skull crushers, closegrip bench, and dips.

As for biceps, bar/ez bar curl and then hammer curls should be sufficient.

Using the combination above should really help move things along... assuming that the rest of the regime is good, without overtraining, and the nutrtition is there too.

I have this same problem. I realized I was doing too much.

Here is my routine for my tris and then bi's which are done on seperate days and done in this order. I find if I don't do dips first I cheat myself out of good dips.

Tris
Dips or close grip BP
Skull crushers
3 sets 12/8/6
Pull Downs (I avoid the rope here and use the v-grip)
12/8/6
Single arm over head extension
(this is more of a burn out deal, I go light)
15lbx12, 20x8, 25x6

Bis
Straight bar (has to be first)
12/8/6
Inclined db curls (keep your back on the bench and it burns good)
12/8/6
Cable Pull down (palms towards you, and I go heavy here)
12/8/failure
standing hammer curls
(I do these light as well, as my last burnout excercise)
20x12, 25x8, 30x6

That is what works or has been working the last month for me pretty well. I have noticed a rise in strength and stability in my bench.

That is a crapload of arm work you have there, Uthinkso. For most people this would be way too much.

At MOST I do 2-3 sets of isolation work for EITHER biceps OR triceps in a given day, I don't even do both the same day.

I swear that I can't recall seeing anyone with really crappy arms compared to their body. I think most people have a distorted view of what well proportioned arms look like, and they are just having dysmorphia issues because those few with genetically gifted arms have become the "ideal." It's nonsense.

Got any pictures? I bet your arms are in better proportion than you think.

My friend (longtime lifting partner) used to have the same problem. He always worried about his arms, telling me "We need to do more biceps!" or, "I want to hit my Bi's and Tri's more.", I eventually talked him into focusing on compound movements and staying away from isolation (for the most part), and he has had alot of growth in his arms, not to mention massive strength and mass gains all over. You really should listen to what everyone tells you on here, read the stickies, study up on things, lift hard, eat well, rest well. This site has helped me so much it is unbelieviable.

For a change, I superset tri & bi's together for a week every now and then. Great shock technique and the pump is awesome.

Originally Posted by Witchblade

That is a crapload of arm work you have there, Uthinkso. For most people this would be way too much.

Too much you think???? When I am done the pump is incredible my arms feel like bricks and aren't terrible flexible at all when I stretch post work out.

Originally Posted by Uthinkso

Too much you think???? When I am done the pump is incredible my arms feel like bricks and aren't terrible flexible at all when I stretch post work out.

Yeah, but why would anybody want to train for decreased flexibility?

If you want to train for a pump then go for it. A pump isnt necessarily what will help put on mass though.

I stopped doing as much direct arm work about 10 months ago. My arms then were 15 1/2", and since then i have cut it down to no direct arm work at all. Its been like this for about 6 months.

My arms grew bigger by 1/4" in the first 4 months, and got to 16" when they were at their biggest. The rest of me has gotten bigger, also.

Now im cutting down calories to lose some fat and my arms are still 15 3/4", while the rest of me hasnt hardly changed at all.

How?

COMPOUNDS, BABY!

Looking at that lot of arm work, your previous one (which had "too much" arm work) must have been 80% made up of it.

Focusing on the big lifts will do more for EVERY part of your body than isolation will. FACT.

I remember camarosoupe7(is that it?) made a good quote..

Why curl 50lbs when you can row 245lbs? The bicep is activated in both movements, only one of them is a shit load of weight.

Which movement do you think will recruit more muscular growth?

Originally Posted by Gazhole

Yeah, but why would anybody want to train for decreased flexibility?

If you want to train for a pump then go for it. A pump isnt necessarily what will help put on mass though.

I stopped doing as much direct arm work about 10 months ago. My arms then were 15 1/2", and since then i have cut it down to no direct arm work at all. Its been like this for about 6 months.

My arms grew bigger by 1/4" in the first 4 months, and got to 16" when they were at their biggest. The rest of me has gotten bigger, also.

Now im cutting down calories to lose some fat and my arms are still 15 3/4", while the rest of me hasnt hardly changed at all.

How?

COMPOUNDS, BABY!

Looking at that lot of arm work, your previous one (which had "too much" arm work) must have been 80% made up of it.

Focusing on the big lifts will do more for EVERY part of your body than isolation will. FACT.

That was a typo, my fault. I meant that my arms are still flexible when I stretch just beaten and tired. So your saying no curls then, because as I see it thats a isolated movement. No leg press as thats an isolated movement. Is there a sticky on this that I am missing. I have always worked under the idea of isolated movements, since joining here I have heard of push/pull routines and then compound routines of which I understand little if any on either topic.

Originally Posted by AKIRA

I remember camarosoupe7(is that it?) made a good quote..

Why curl 50lbs when you can row 245lbs? The bicep is activated in both movements, only one of them is a shit load of weight.

Which movement do you think will recruit more muscular growth?

In my line of thinking the curls would because you are isolating the bicep. With the row you are still using the bicep along with your back, shoulders, etc. The bicep doesn't get worked as hard. At least thats my view point, but I'm open to new ideas.

Hmm...Ill wait for others to step in on this one. Im too tired of this subject.

The rows would recruit more muscle fibers, not just because of the weight, but because of the fact that you are using more than just your bicep for this particular movement..

Lets say for instance you do back and biceps on one day.

3 compounds and 1 isolation (a curling exercise).

Thats 4 movements where your bicep is working. With volume and adequete intensity, that should be plenty for your biceps to fry. Plus, since its on only 1 day, they can recover and not be overtrained.

Doing back and biceps on seperate days can be done, but the volume should be decreased and I dont know about you, but Id rather devote my time in the gym to other workouts that might be slacking...(LIKE GRIP!)

Dont forget, this goes for triceps as well.

Originally Posted by AKIRA

Lets say for instance you do back and biceps on one day.

3 compounds and 1 isolation (a curling exercise).

Thats 4 movements where your bicep is working. With volume and adequete intensity, that should be plenty for your biceps to fry. Plus, since its on only 1 day, they can recover and not be overtrained.

Doing back and biceps on seperate days can be done, but the volume should be decreased and I dont know about you, but Id rather devote my time in the gym to other workouts that might be slacking...(LIKE GRIP!)

Dont forget, this goes for triceps as well.

Hmm thats very interesting. I'll be honest I'm not real clear on what makes a movement isolated or compound. I mean of course there are some obvious ones, but overall I do 3 excercises per body part.

I am going to do back and biceps tomorrow, probably something like this:Heavy straight bar curls - 2 sets of 6 or 8Hammer dumbell curls - 2 sets of 12Shrugs - 3 setsDeadlifts - 3 setsRows - 4 setsLat pull downs - 3 sets

Compound means you are using more than one joint to complete the movement.

Isolation means only one joint is being moved to complete the movement.

Compound=bench press, Isolation=Crossover
Compound=Squat, Isolation=Leg Extension
Compound=Row, Isolation=Bicep Curl

Get my drift?

Originally Posted by Uthinkso

Hmm thats very interesting. I'll be honest I'm not real clear on what makes a movement isolated or compound. I mean of course there are some obvious ones, but overall I do 3 excercises per body part.

While youre thinking about that, think about this.

Anytime you flex your elbow, your bicep is doing it.
Anytime you extend your elbow, your tricep is doing it.

SO!

Every exercise that requires either one of those movements to happen, recruits one of those arm muscles.

For instance...forget volume for a second and lets say you do 3 exercises for biceps. For your back you do 3 exercises. Your biceps just did 6 fucking exercises! Now add in the volume and you may have a recipe for overtraining, thus, SMALL ARMS.

Remember, when you row, your bending your elbow = biceps
Pullups, you bend your elbow = biceps

Doesnt matter if its machines, hammer strength, cables, free weights, or the Shit Machine, your elbow will always bend making that bicep work.

Triceps are the same story but with the opposite direction.

Trust me, it took me a couple months to grasp the idea on here and with NASM.

"You must unlearn, what you have learned."

Originally Posted by AKIRA

While youre thinking about that, think about this.

Anytime you flex your elbow, your bicep is doing it.
Anytime you extend your elbow, your tricep is doing it.

SO!

Every exercise that requires either one of those movements to happen, recruits one of those arm muscles.

For instance...forget volume for a second and lets say you do 3 exercises for biceps. For your back you do 3 exercises. Your biceps just did 6 fucking exercises! Now add in the volume and you may have a recipe for overtraining, thus, SMALL ARMS.

Remember, when you row, your bending your elbow = biceps
Pullups, you bend your elbow = biceps

Doesnt matter if its machines, hammer strength, cables, free weights, or the Shit Machine, your elbow will always bend making that bicep work.

Triceps are the same story but with the opposite direction.

Trust me, it took me a couple months to grasp the idea on here and with NASM.

"You must unlearn, what you have learned."

Ok I'm starting to follow you here. So what your telling me is by doing all isolation movements like my routine posted, and do a low rep range with heavy weight. Even still due to the amount of excercise I will have small or smaller arms? Too much work for them to grow?

Originally Posted by Uthinkso

Ok I'm starting to follow you here. So what your telling me is by doing all isolation movements like my routine posted, and do a low rep range with heavy weight. Even still due to the amount of excercise I will have small or smaller arms? Too much work for them to grow?

Look at it like this:

I go the IronMag gym and do bicep curls. Because the bicep is pretty much the only muscle directly involved with this exercise it gets worn out easily. My bi's are fried after 4 sets of these.

Akira comes into the gym and does Rows. This exercises uses the biceps, the shoulders, and the back. Even if his biceps get tired, the other muscles are there to pick up the slack, so the biceps in fact get more work but dont die like they did for me with the curls, because its a compound movement - everything works together to complete the lift.

Not to mention, recruiting more muscle fibers will stimulate more overall growth.

Why do Tricep Pressdown (Tris), Lateral Raise (Shoulders), and Crossover (Chest) - you can do all these in the Bench Press.

Too much isolating will burn a muscle out. Compound movements share the load.

ok so oddly enough today is back and bis for me. Using your ideas of compound movments how does this work out look.

Straight bar curl (heavy)
3 sets 12/8/6

Row
3s 12/8/6

Hammer Curls
3s 12/8/6

Lower back machine (hard to explain, basically you sit in it and lean back against a pad and adjust the resistance)
3s 12/8/6


Lat pull downs (palms facing me)
3s 12/8/6


then 25 minutes of cardio


Look good???? It really doesn't seem like much work to me.

try some drop sets/supersets/ ect. & maybe try to pre-exhaust your arms lightly then hit them hard