Power Training

Malley · 03-24-2007, 09:00 PM

So heres the question:

Do I use one day and do power all by its lonesome or should I superset it with strength exercises?

I have 3 resistance days a week. First one is a total push and the other is a total pull. I was going to make the third for power exercises only. I am going to shun away from olympic lifts for now. So a power day all by itself would look like this:

A-1 Plyo Pushups-3x5
A-2 Jump Squats-3x5

B-1 Marching Box Jumps-3x5 (5 per leg)
B-2 iso-extreme push up-3 sets with a isolation hold at the bottom for as long as possible.

Lunges + Vertical leap-3x5

Burpees-3x10

*RI's will be around 45-60 seconds on each. Obviously the first 2 are supersets.

Now heres my other option:
Work it into my 3 day split. NASM's model is supersetting it with things like back squats. Meaning doing a set of back squats and supersetting it with Jump squats.

So a routine could look like this:

A-1 Bench-3x4-6
A-2 Plyo Pushups-3x4-6

B-1 Split Squats-3x4-6
B-2 Jump squat-3x4-6

Burpees-3x10

Of course this is just an example of a total push. I would have to work on it a bit more, but my question at hand is should I use the power exercises as a superset? Or should I dedicate an entire day to power training?

**P-funk** · 03-24-2007, 09:02 PM

1) I still don't understand why you are supersetting the plyos?

2) I don't like the complex super set of a strength exercise with a power exercise AND that is only one phase of their program design. The final phase is only power training.

3) You should do some reactive type work through most of your phases of training (save for offseason/unloading phases when you need to decrease some stress).

4) Depending on how the program is set up is going to really dictate how you use this stuff.

Malley · 03-24-2007, 09:07 PM

1. I was going to try and improve conditioning at the same time. But I suppose I am a bit off there.

2. You always said you disagree with somethings with NASM, I suppose this is one.

3. I do need to buy a quick foot ladder, but the money isnt exactly there right now. New baby coming you know?

4. Well I dont exactly have anything set in stone yet, but I need to do some thinking about how exactly I need to set this up.

So you never superset power exercises?

**P-funk** · 03-24-2007, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double D

1. I was going to try and improve conditioning at the same time. But I suppose I am a bit off there.

If you are going to condition then condition. If you are going to train for power, then train for power! Intensive power exercises....olympic lifts, squat jumps, depth jumps, alternating step up jumps, etc....should not be superseted since you want to display optimal power output and train your neurological system void of metabolic fatigue. Conditioning is a different story. Low level plyos like quick feet drills (or the ladder) can work with a conditioning component as they can be performed more at a sports specific work to rest interval.

2. You always said you disagree with somethings with NASM, I suppose this is one.

There are a few things I disagree with. In general I disagree with everyone on something. It is hard to find someone to agree with 100% on everything. The important thing to take away is the concept.....the oraganization. You will have your own ideas in your head as far as what you preceive to be true and what works for you and those you train.

3. I do need to buy a quick foot ladder, but the money isnt exactly there right now. New baby coming you know?

No need for a ladder. Quick feet drills can be great....front to back hops or side to side hops over a line on a basketball court or a football fied. Ice Skaters stick the landing, repetitive ice skaters, etc..

4. Well I dont exactly have anything set in stone yet, but I need to do some thinking about how exactly I need to set this up.

yup. have a plan. look at how many weeks you have until your season starts and plan backwards from where you want to be to where you are now. Then map it out and follow the map.

So you never superset power exercises?

answered that in question one

Malley · 03-24-2007, 09:16 PM

Again fuckin Powned.....Nicely answered and much appreciated.

Malley · 03-24-2007, 09:18 PM

Ok so the question I pose now is this:

I come to you at the gym and say to you:

"I want to hit the shit out of the ball! I want to be fast and most of all I want to be explosive!" What do you say to that? Would you start on a power only program or would you add strength as well. My main goal right now is explosiveness!

I think I am a rookie again!

**P-funk** · 03-24-2007, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double D

Ok so the question I pose now is this:

I come to you at the gym and say to you:

"I want to hit the shit out of the ball! I want to be fast and most of all I want to be explosive!" What do you say to that? Would you start on a power only program or would you add strength as well. My main goal right now is explosiveness!

I think I am a rookie again!

Ah! A "choice" question.........Of to eat some dinner I am. Will field this one (no pun intended) when I get back.

Short answer...movement screen first and then program design....No program ever starts just focusing on power. You have to develop strucutral elements and then strength, in order to display power.

if you aren't strong, you can't impart maximum velocity on an implement or yourself.

Bakerboy · 03-24-2007, 09:21 PM

You don't need a ladder- just use what you have- rope and sticks- whatever.

I got some cheap pylons (small kids size) for a dollar each at the dollors store.
I use those for all kinds of stuff - running lines (when at the park), making an obstacle course, even when doing farmer walks (I put two at one end and two at the other end). Just get creative. I jump up onto cement blocks, rails, sand boxes, picnic tables - whatever. Never buy what you can make for free!

Malley · 03-24-2007, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

Ah! A "choice" question.........Of to eat some dinner I am. Will field this one (no pun intended) when I get back.

Short answer...movement screen first and then program design....No program ever starts just focusing on power. You have to develop strucutral elements and then strength, in order to display power.

if you aren't strong, you can't impart maximum velocity on an implement or yourself.

Ok that was speaking from a trainers perspective that doesnt know anything about the client. Now I know I am very strong as I have been training for 11 years and I know that at the very least at this point in my training that I am definitly strong. So with that said where do we go from there?

Enjoy dinner P.

Malley · 03-24-2007, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bakerboy

You don't need a ladder- just use what you have- rope and sticks- whatever.

I got some cheap pylons (small kids size) for a dollar each at the dollors store.
I use those for all kinds of stuff - running lines (when at the park), making an obstacle course, even when doing farmer walks (I put two at one end and two at the other end). Just get creative. I jump up onto cement blocks, rails, sand boxes, picnic tables - whatever. Never buy what you can make for free!

I have used my daughters on a few occasions!!!!

Bakerboy · 03-24-2007, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double D

I have used my daughters on a few occasions!!!!

lawl

Bakerboy · 03-24-2007, 10:46 PM

Exercises TTU Athletics Strength and Conditioning

Not the greatest site in the world but the one that I was looking for I can't find.

I assume because baseball involves a lot of twisting you could use some rotational work- P knows all about that high and low woodchops- or with a medicine ball (the site above shows with a medicine ball- but they are not doing it that great

). I think you need some basic power exercises like cleans and one arm snatches and front squats as well as some unilateral stuff like you are already doing like step- ups. I don't see any point doing too many new execises like regular snatches and cleans if you don't have much experience with them as you don't have much time to learn how to do them.
But the P master will be able to help you, he's the pro...

Malley · 03-24-2007, 10:48 PM

P is the pro, no doubt there. I do tons of unilateral things anyways. I have done cleans, but my form sucks! I was going to try to do some twisting exercises for hitting. We will see what P comes up with. I will check out the site, thanks BB.

Triple Threat · 03-25-2007, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double D

I have used my daughters on a few occasions!!!!

Hopefully for carrying and not for jumping on.

**P-funk** · 03-25-2007, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double D

Ok so the question I pose now is this:

I come to you at the gym and say to you:

"I want to hit the shit out of the ball! I want to be fast and most of all I want to be explosive!" What do you say to that? Would you start on a power only program or would you add strength as well. My main goal right now is explosiveness!

I think I am a rookie again!

Okay, even though we know you are strong, you still want to make sure you develop everything properly.

There are three types of periodization that I really look at:

linear
undulating
concurrent (like the westide template)

I think each are good and each have their place depending on where you are at in the year in relation to your season. Linear is great for the offseason to unload the athlete (even though you said it was "blah", it has application) and it is also good if you are preparing for one single event. Also, even though you are moving in a linear fashion, you still want some power training in there. It is just that it will make up less of your weekly training volume.

Undulating works well for inseason training as does concurrent (and maybe I am splitting hairs here with all the stupid semantics that get throw around naming these things. I think they kind of have a lot of similiar components). You just have to know how to manage the variables. I like the undulating because it leaves room for a recovery workout. If you don't have very many weeks to train (like yourself), then you are going to want to probably chose something that is more undulating or concurrent. However, they will both have a linear component to them, in that they will have an extensification or accumulation phase (ie hypertrophy type rep ranges...8-10) and an intensification or strength phase (ie somewhere in the 1-6 or 3-6 rep range).

So, for example, 8 weeks of training may looks like

weeks 1-3= accumulation
week 4-6= intensification
week 7-8= peaking
inseason= concurrent or undulating program

Make sense?

Malley · 03-25-2007, 04:53 PM

Makes perfect sense. You explained that very well. So here is another question for ya P, do I do just power training? Or should I use strength training as well? Right now it is simple, I want to increase my athletic performance. Really being strong isnt to big of a deal to me. Hell in the athletic world being powerful trumps being strong anytime!

**P-funk** · 03-25-2007, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double D

Makes perfect sense. You explained that very well. So here is another question for ya P, do I do just power training? Or should I use strength training as well? Right now it is simple, I want to increase my athletic performance. Really being strong isnt to big of a deal to me. Hell in the athletic world being powerful trumps being strong anytime!

I thought I just answered that question?

Malley · 03-25-2007, 05:02 PM

You did and I am retarted. I read it wrong. Sorry just got done with a couple games and am kinda beat, excuse me for being ignorant.

Malley · 03-25-2007, 05:06 PM

I decided I will use the undulating periodzation. Train 3 days a week. With of course the emphasis on power only for now.

I am going to really try to get the form correct on hang cleans and snatches. I think they will help my in the long run. I do think they will do more for me than plyo pushups ever could!

Malley · 03-25-2007, 05:17 PM

P would you suggest doing the power exercises before strength exercises or after?

**P-funk** · 03-25-2007, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double D

I decided I will use the undulating periodzation. Train 3 days a week. With of course the emphasis on power only for now.

I am going to really try to get the form correct on hang cleans and snatches. I think they will help my in the long run. I do think they will do more for me than plyo pushups ever could!

You totally missed what I said.

The emphasis need to shift. You have 8 weeks. You can't just simply emphasize power for 8 weeks. You end up missing other qualities.

You need to take it in sections:

3 weeks- emphasize metabolic work, with less power work. use the olympic lifts in complexes to raise work capacity and teach proper technique.

3 weeks- emphasize strength, moderate amounts of power work.

2 weeks- emphasize power, moderate amounts of strength

**P-funk** · 03-25-2007, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double D

P would you suggest doing the power exercises before strength exercises or after?

always. I wouldn't do it any other way. I see no benefit in fatiguing the nervous system and then trying to go back and use it again.

Malley · 03-25-2007, 05:31 PM

You know you could go back and delete some of my comments because I do sound like a tool. Sure does make a big difference whenever I actually read teh whole thing through. In my defense I am at work and I am trying to do 3 things at once. Sorry.

Alright well let me see if I cant start to put something together here and go from there.

**P-funk** · 03-25-2007, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double D

You know you could go back and delete some of my comments because I do sound like a tool. Sure does make a big difference whenever I actually read teh whole thing through. In my defense I am at work and I am trying to do 3 things at once. Sorry.

Alright well let me see if I cant start to put something together here and go from there.

Don't worry about it. If it is somethign that you have never done before, it is difficult to grasp.

So, now you just need to figure out the variables to place in each section. make the training concurrent, in that you will have some power stuff each day and then the strength stuff.

Undulating (like power one day, hypertophy, strength) might be your best option for in season. Right now, you have 8 weeks to really develop yourself....take that time and go with it.

Malley · 03-25-2007, 05:41 PM

This is way past difficult for me in this case. It is definitly something I have never done and of course I do have to say the masses of america weightlifters have probably never done this at all. All most people know (me included)

03-24-2007, 09:00 PM	#1
Malley Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 10,020	Power Training So heres the question: Do I use one day and do power all by its lonesome or should I superset it with strength exercises? I have 3 resistance days a week. First one is a total push and the other is a total pull. I was going to make the third for power exercises only. I am going to shun away from olympic lifts for now. So a power day all by itself would look like this: A-1 Plyo Pushups-3x5 A-2 Jump Squats-3x5 B-1 Marching Box Jumps-3x5 (5 per leg) B-2 iso-extreme push up-3 sets with a isolation hold at the bottom for as long as possible. Lunges + Vertical leap-3x5 Burpees-3x10 *RI's will be around 45-60 seconds on each. Obviously the first 2 are supersets. Now heres my other option: Work it into my 3 day split. NASM's model is supersetting it with things like back squats. Meaning doing a set of back squats and supersetting it with Jump squats. So a routine could look like this: A-1 Bench-3x4-6 A-2 Plyo Pushups-3x4-6 B-1 Split Squats-3x4-6 B-2 Jump squat-3x4-6 Burpees-3x10 Of course this is just an example of a total push. I would have to work on it a bit more, but my question at hand is should I use the power exercises as a superset? Or should I dedicate an entire day to power training?
	www.crossfit.com

03-24-2007, 09:02 PM	#2
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,570	1) I still don't understand why you are supersetting the plyos? 2) I don't like the complex super set of a strength exercise with a power exercise AND that is only one phase of their program design. The final phase is only power training. 3) You should do some reactive type work through most of your phases of training (save for offseason/unloading phases when you need to decrease some stress). 4) Depending on how the program is set up is going to really dictate how you use this stuff.
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! Ivonne's Blog on Health and Wellness! Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

03-24-2007, 09:07 PM	#3
Malley Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 10,020	1. I was going to try and improve conditioning at the same time. But I suppose I am a bit off there. 2. You always said you disagree with somethings with NASM, I suppose this is one. 3. I do need to buy a quick foot ladder, but the money isnt exactly there right now. New baby coming you know? 4. Well I dont exactly have anything set in stone yet, but I need to do some thinking about how exactly I need to set this up. So you never superset power exercises?
	www.crossfit.com

03-24-2007, 09:16 PM	#5
Malley Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 10,020	Again fuckin Powned.....Nicely answered and much appreciated.
	www.crossfit.com

03-24-2007, 09:18 PM	#6
Malley Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 10,020	Ok so the question I pose now is this: I come to you at the gym and say to you: "I want to hit the shit out of the ball! I want to be fast and most of all I want to be explosive!" What do you say to that? Would you start on a power only program or would you add strength as well. My main goal right now is explosiveness! I think I am a rookie again!
	www.crossfit.com

03-24-2007, 09:21 PM	#8
Bakerboy cat burglar Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: the city of champions Posts: 4,146 Photos: 3	You don't need a ladder- just use what you have- rope and sticks- whatever. I got some cheap pylons (small kids size) for a dollar each at the dollors store. I use those for all kinds of stuff - running lines (when at the park), making an obstacle course, even when doing farmer walks (I put two at one end and two at the other end). Just get creative. I jump up onto cement blocks, rails, sand boxes, picnic tables - whatever. Never buy what you can make for free!
	No strength within, no respect without - Kasmiri Proverb

03-24-2007, 10:46 PM	#12
Bakerboy cat burglar Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: the city of champions Posts: 4,146 Photos: 3	Exercises TTU Athletics Strength and Conditioning Not the greatest site in the world but the one that I was looking for I can't find. I assume because baseball involves a lot of twisting you could use some rotational work- P knows all about that high and low woodchops- or with a medicine ball (the site above shows with a medicine ball- but they are not doing it that great ). I think you need some basic power exercises like cleans and one arm snatches and front squats as well as some unilateral stuff like you are already doing like step- ups. I don't see any point doing too many new execises like regular snatches and cleans if you don't have much experience with them as you don't have much time to learn how to do them. But the P master will be able to help you, he's the pro...
	No strength within, no respect without - Kasmiri Proverb

03-24-2007, 10:48 PM	#13
Malley Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 10,020	P is the pro, no doubt there. I do tons of unilateral things anyways. I have done cleans, but my form sucks! I was going to try to do some twisting exercises for hitting. We will see what P comes up with. I will check out the site, thanks BB.
	www.crossfit.com

03-25-2007, 04:53 PM	#16
Malley Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 10,020	Makes perfect sense. You explained that very well. So here is another question for ya P, do I do just power training? Or should I use strength training as well? Right now it is simple, I want to increase my athletic performance. Really being strong isnt to big of a deal to me. Hell in the athletic world being powerful trumps being strong anytime!
	www.crossfit.com

03-25-2007, 05:02 PM	#18
Malley Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 10,020	You did and I am retarted. I read it wrong. Sorry just got done with a couple games and am kinda beat, excuse me for being ignorant.
	www.crossfit.com

03-25-2007, 05:06 PM	#19
Malley Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 10,020	I decided I will use the undulating periodzation. Train 3 days a week. With of course the emphasis on power only for now. I am going to really try to get the form correct on hang cleans and snatches. I think they will help my in the long run. I do think they will do more for me than plyo pushups ever could!
	www.crossfit.com

03-25-2007, 05:17 PM	#20
Malley Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 10,020	P would you suggest doing the power exercises before strength exercises or after?
	www.crossfit.com

03-25-2007, 05:31 PM	#23
Malley Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 10,020	You know you could go back and delete some of my comments because I do sound like a tool. Sure does make a big difference whenever I actually read teh whole thing through. In my defense I am at work and I am trying to do 3 things at once. Sorry. Alright well let me see if I cant start to put something together here and go from there.
	www.crossfit.com

03-25-2007, 05:41 PM	#25
Malley Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 10,020	This is way past difficult for me in this case. It is definitly something I have never done and of course I do have to say the masses of america weightlifters have probably never done this at all. All most people know (me included)