wrecked_porsche

Hi guys, NooB questions here. Please share your thoughts on this. What do you think is the better move:

1) Zig Zag Method of loosing bf and building muscle mass at the same time

OR

2) Loose BF until about 10% then start building muscles?


I've been using the Zig Zag, but I think maybe I should use the second method instead? Even PFunk thinks soo too. You see, my BF started out at 21% in January, now its about 19%. I find it quite difficult/confusing to have days where I eat more and do heavy workouts and days where I eat less and do cardio. Even though my bf has reduced, my muscles have not increased much in size. But I have been making steady progress with the weights I've been using. Only in the past few weeks I've noticed its getting more difficult to move up to the next level. By next level, I mean an increment of 2.5 lbs in my workout. Every time I train with weights, once I reach 12 reps X 3 sets, I move it up a notch by adding 2.5 lbs.

I tried method 2 for about 1 week and I did notice some difference in bf, it is going down. Now my question is this, if I decide to cut my BF until about 10% and then from there I try to build my muscles, what are the drawbacks? Would I loose some energy/ability compared to my current state? If I go about doing this, then I have another question. Do I just maintain the weight I'm using now and do not increase it as often/do not increase it anymore and just focus on doing more reps per set for more definition?


BTW, my goal is to look lean, the exact would be like Ryan Reynolds? Not that bulky, but significant upper body definition. (Hey, at least I know what I want, so don't make fun! )


Ryan Reynolds:





Man I'm thinking too much...


OK, I know my post is messy so let me sum it up.

1) Should I Zig Zag or loose BF first then build muscle?
2) What are the drawbacks of reducing BF first and then only building my muscles?
3) To do this, do I maintain the current same weights and increase the reps/sets?
4) I think this smiley is cute --->


Please help!

All Your Dumbells Are Belong To Us

wrecked_porsche

I forgot to add, my stats are as follows:

I'm currently 22 yrs old, 187 pounds, 6'1'' tall, 19% body fat, RHR is 47bpm.

All Your Dumbells Are Belong To Us

Rhyno

hey, how are ya.
I am by far no pro at this, so take what you will.

when i first started i was 75kgs (164lbs), 16%BF & RHR of about 60ish

I am now 78kgs (170lbs), 173cm (5"7'), 13% BF & RHR of about 54

Although for the first few months i just focused on cardio and getting my BF% down, for about the last 6 months i started seriously working out.

I have been working on full body workouts so no body part has gone without and have had big noob gains all round.

My goal is to also have a similar physique as the pic above, but i have no paritcular time frame for getting there so cutting is not that important for me.

Just remember, regardless of whether you are going on a cut or not, you have to eat the right foods to stimulate muscle growth otherwise you may be working out in vein.

So Zig-Zag as you say has worked fine for me

I hope that helps.

WHY?.....

Because life was'nt meant to be easy

wrecked_porsche

Hey bro, I'm fine.
So, you've had days where you were eating less and were doing cardio? Then on the days you were lifting, you ate more? Is that what you're saying?

How long did it take you to go from 16% to 13% bf?

All Your Dumbells Are Belong To Us

Rhyno

My set/rep range is in the 3 x 8 -12 with a 60 -90 sec interval, as claimed by many this is the best rep range to build muscles/ hypotrophy. and i usually do HITT cardio on the three days i go to the gym (instead of creating a caloric deficit on non training days i just do the HITT cardio).

I do not change my caloric intake on non training days because an essntial part of my diet has been increasing the amount of protien i eat and reducing the amount of sugar and sturated fats i eat every day. the extra protein helps promotes lean muscle mass, the diet and nutrition forum has heaps of really good info about foods to help build muscle.

I have changed my routine a few times but over the 6 months since i started i have gained about 5 kgs (10lbs) of lean body weight. (this is over my whole body). I live in Australia so i am aiming to be about 8 to 9% BF by summer and to gain about another 5Kgs.

every one has their own way of doing things, i have chosen to work on gaining muscle and loosing weight at the same time, so far it has worked for me.
The reason why i chose this method also was, say your goal is to get to 10%BF and you get there then your aim is to bulk, you will end up just putting on extra BF on your bulk and then you will have to cut again (although it will be a smaller cut, im my mind it is just eaisier to worry about that once you put on muscle)

WHY?.....

Because life was'nt meant to be easy

wrecked_porsche

Seems logical enough. I also do the set/rep range of 3 x 12.

You do HITT cardio on the same day as your weight day? Do you do this before or after your lifting?

I change my calorie intake depending on the workout I'm scheduled for that day. I've read that doing cardio and weights together is a big no no. Dunno if its true or a myth, but I heard that there should be at least 8 hours between doing cardio and weights. So, I choose to separate my cardio days from my weight days, and in order to gain maximum from my cardio workout, I have a calorie deficiency on those days. This is what leads me to the zig zag method.


You say that:

"The reason why i chose this method also was, say your goal is to get to 10%BF and you get there then your aim is to bulk, you will end up just putting on extra BF on your bulk and then you will have to cut again (although it will be a smaller cut, im my mind it is just eaisier to worry about that once you put on muscle)"


Well, I've thought of this too, but the problem with loosing bf and gaining muscle at the same time is that its that its the same as loosing the bf first then adding muscle right? Think about it, you add muscle, then do HITT loosing some of the gained muscle, then add muscles again, then HITT again...

THAT is the reason I created this thread. I wanted to know what others thought about this? Are they essentially the same thing in the end? Does it all boil down to the same thing?

All Your Dumbells Are Belong To Us

Rhyno

everybody at all levles of training should do some form of cardio to condition themselves better, now i am open to being told differently but i thought that you will only catobolise muscle through very long sesions 1 - 2hrs of cardio and not the average 30mins or so.
I have heard though that by doing cardio right after your workout you will flush out the good stuff in your muscles that help build muscle, but i have no other days to do this, and i dont know how true it is either.

Most people here will say cut then bulk, they will also say do what works for you....(as long as its my way)

WHY?.....

Because life was'nt meant to be easy

Duncans Donuts

do interval training 2 x a week, light "cardio" as a cool-down and warm-up, since you are a beginner i would do 2-3 sets of 5-6 exercises. i would work out with a lot of intensity.

"in the howling bleeding nights, the dogs plunge into the Volga and swim desperately to gain the other bank. The nights of Stalingrad are a terror for them. Animals flee this hell; the hardest stones cannot bear it for long; only men endure."

wrecked_porsche

Well, thanks for the replies guys, I think I'm just gonna stick with alternating between high calorie days(heavy weights workout) and low calorie days(40 minutes cardio workout). I'll probably stay with this until about june and see if I have any progress, because I'm confused as hell now. LOL

I'll do about two weight days and two cardio days.
Monday and Friday will be weights. (Two day split)
Tue/Wed/Thu will be cardio.

All Your Dumbells Are Belong To Us