Need A Solid Rotator Cuff Plan

**Pirate!** · 04-01-2007, 07:34 PM

I've had surgery on both shoulders in years past because I trained ignorantly and caused myself a great deal of impingement under my acromion and subsequent injury, including osteolysis of the distal clavicle and bursitis. It’s been years since the surgeries and physical therapy, and I’ve read an endless amount about strengthening the rotator cuff, and I’ve incorporated some of the movements I learned from my reading and physical therapy into my routine. However, my RC still needs to be tightened up. I’ve allowed my shoulders to roll forward too much in many exercises, and I feel impingement coming back in one shoulder. I’d appreciate any advice for stabilizing my GH joint and balancing out my RC. I really feel like I need a plan where I can track my progress.

Thanks in advance!

**P-funk** · 04-01-2007, 07:36 PM

stop pressing for 2 weeks.

low rows (nothing overhead...so no pulldowns)
cable reverse flyes (or thera-band)
prone T's
prone A's
scaption raises
ext. rotation
serratus push ups

**Pirate!** · 04-01-2007, 08:23 PM

My Serratus has been seriously neglected. What are A's and T's? I've been doing the scaption raises, low rows and external rotations. I'll make the serratus push ups my only pressing for the next few weeks.

**P-funk** · 04-01-2007, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pirate!

My Serratus has been seriously neglected. What are A's and T's? I've been doing the scaption raises, low rows and external rotations. I'll make the serratus push ups my only pressing for the next few weeks.

you can do them on the floor in a push up position. Place your hands down and then you pull your shoulder blades together and then push out....

click here

if it hurst you to do it in the push up position and you have a hard time supporting yourself, set up a bar in the squat rack or smith machine and do them off of that for some assistance (takes some of your body weight away).

I like to say go with higher reps, but when someone has a shoulder pathology, you can't just make that call without watching them perform the movement. Usually, their local muscles fatigue around rep number 6-8 and then the global muscles start to take over (they start shrugging on the rows, the aren't retracting their shoulder blades, etc..). That is a call you are going to have to make on your own since no one is there to watch you. Use mirrors if you can! Often times those with shoulder pathologies will lose proprioception and not even know they are cheating the movement.

Use tempo restritions. I like to have someone hold the iso at contraction for a 2-3 count and then slowly perform the eccentric for a 2-3 count. Again, this will probably cause even greater fatigue, so be mindful of your form..

Ice, ice, ice. After the workout, hit up the ice for 12-15min.

Dixie cups with ice in them work awesome for ice massage. Freeze them, peel away some of the top of the cup and massage your shoulder in circles. You can tell how inflammed you are if the ice melts quickly, as this means there is a lot of heat coming from the tissue.

Thoracic mobilization on the foam roller can really help, as can rolling your upper back.

**P-funk** · 04-01-2007, 08:43 PM

oh, I forogt....

For T's, you lie face down on a low incline bench (knees on the seat) and you perform horizontal abduction (like a reverse flye) with your thumbs up. Start with no weight at first, then light DBs. Work for high reps and work on retracting that scapula.

A's are in the same position except you are going have your arms down towards your sides (about a 45 degree angle off the body) with your palms facing the floor. From there, you retract AND depress the scapula, pulling your arms back and trying to turn your thumbs to the ceiling so that your palms are facing away from you.

You can throw Y's in there......same position again, this time you are going overhead (not directly) but in more of a Y formation (think same type of movement as scaption raises just lying prone) with thumbs up.

Start with no weight...progress slowly. Build stability. Use some iso's at contraction.

**Pirate!** · 04-02-2007, 06:44 AM

I used to do the Ts and Push Up Plus after my first surgery. I'm going to incorporate all these exercises. I'll let you know how it all goes. Many thanks, P!

**CowPimp** · 04-03-2007, 11:57 AM

P knows his stuff. Some of the exercises I used with a lot of success when coming back from my shoulder subluxation:

Pushup plus/serratus pushups
External rotations with cables
YTWLs

I probably used those the most. Good luck guy!

**Dale Mabry** · 04-03-2007, 12:09 PM

For post-rehab work, I like Retracted presses. They are just shoulder presses with a band, and you anchor the band a foot or so in front of you down near your feet so the band pulls your hands forward. Pull band back in to position, retract your scapula, and go to work with shoulder presses. Since I added these into my warm-up, my bursitis/tendonitis has gone away. After you have done what P said, give these a try to prevent reoccurrence.

**P-funk** · 04-03-2007, 09:59 PM

^^ interesting. never done that one.

Using theraband or even a light cable and doing PNF patterns is another awesome one for helping to restore proprioception. we use it a ton.

**Pirate!** · 04-04-2007, 07:05 AM

Pushup plus/serratus pushups are rather new to me. Any specific things I need to watch for? Elbows in/out, pace?

I'll try the retracted presses in a few weeks.

What are YTWL and PNF patterns?

**P-funk** · 04-04-2007, 07:55 AM

I'm drying to find a picture for you. It is tough to describe the PNF patterns.

Like, if you had some theraband or light cable in your right hand. You would start down at your left side and make a diagonal pattern across your body until your arm is out overhead (at a slight angle) and externally rotated (like drawing a sword). This is a D2 pattern. A D1 pattern is the opposite.

I will try and find a picture sometime today.

**IainDaniel** · 04-04-2007, 08:30 AM

YTWL

â€œY-T-W-Lâ€ SHOULDER MATRIX

Video: Triathlon training: YTWL from ExpertVillage

**Pirate!** · 04-04-2007, 02:59 PM

Ok, I got PNF down. I'll try that with a light band. I'll add the YTMLs too.

Thanks!

**IainDaniel** · 04-16-2007, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

I'm drying to find a picture for you. It is tough to describe the PNF patterns.

Like, if you had some theraband or light cable in your right hand. You would start down at your left side and make a diagonal pattern across your body until your arm is out overhead (at a slight angle) and externally rotated (like drawing a sword). This is a D2 pattern. A D1 pattern is the opposite.

I will try and find a picture sometime today.

Did you find a pic or video of this?

**P-funk** · 04-16-2007, 10:04 AM

**IainDaniel** · 04-16-2007, 10:06 AM

Ok that is what I thought.

Thanks

**IainDaniel** · 04-16-2007, 01:11 PM

Seemed like a decent powerpoint presentation especially for Throwers

http://uconnsportsmed.uchc.edu/patie...otatorcuff.pdf

**IainDaniel** · 04-16-2007, 02:06 PM

More I read about GIRD, the more I start to wonder. I just did a self check based on images shown on the internet. ROM in my throwing shoulder is completely off compared to my non-throwing shoulder.

iMan323 · 04-16-2007, 02:37 PM

I like this article:

http://www.t-nation.com/portal_inclu...-training.html

And if you're really looking for a radical departure ...http://www.egoscue.com

**P-funk** · 04-16-2007, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IainDaniel

More I read about GIRD, the more I start to wonder. I just did a self check based on images shown on the internet. ROM in my throwing shoulder is completely off compared to my non-throwing shoulder.

go get it checked out by a PT.

**IainDaniel** · 04-16-2007, 06:22 PM

Yeah I know it is just finding someone I trust. I didn't think much of my first PT when I first started to treat this 10 years ago.

THE BEAST · 04-18-2007, 11:39 PM

my shoulder is a little messed up to i still work my shoulders im always looking for different workouts to try this is a good article thanks p im not sure what they called but you raise your arm straight out in front of you with dumbbells i know its a good shoulder workout but they are hard for me to do sometimes my shoulder pops also sometimes with the overhead lifts one thing i like to do is hold a light weight out and rotate it up and down if that makes any since

**IainDaniel** · 04-23-2007, 01:04 PM

Another good link for Throwers

http://uconnsportsmed.uchc.edu/patie...5_scapular.pdf

Fuck I wish I was smarter, it is pretty interesting reading this shit.

04-01-2007, 07:34 PM	#1
Pirate! Gatekepper Moderator Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 5,757	Need A Solid Rotator Cuff Plan I've had surgery on both shoulders in years past because I trained ignorantly and caused myself a great deal of impingement under my acromion and subsequent injury, including osteolysis of the distal clavicle and bursitis. It’s been years since the surgeries and physical therapy, and I’ve read an endless amount about strengthening the rotator cuff, and I’ve incorporated some of the movements I learned from my reading and physical therapy into my routine. However, my RC still needs to be tightened up. I’ve allowed my shoulders to roll forward too much in many exercises, and I feel impingement coming back in one shoulder. I’d appreciate any advice for stabilizing my GH joint and balancing out my RC. I really feel like I need a plan where I can track my progress. Thanks in advance!

04-01-2007, 07:36 PM	#2
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,570	stop pressing for 2 weeks. low rows (nothing overhead...so no pulldowns) cable reverse flyes (or thera-band) prone T's prone A's scaption raises ext. rotation serratus push ups
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! Ivonne's Blog on Health and Wellness! Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

04-01-2007, 08:43 PM	#5
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,570	oh, I forogt.... For T's, you lie face down on a low incline bench (knees on the seat) and you perform horizontal abduction (like a reverse flye) with your thumbs up. Start with no weight at first, then light DBs. Work for high reps and work on retracting that scapula. A's are in the same position except you are going have your arms down towards your sides (about a 45 degree angle off the body) with your palms facing the floor. From there, you retract AND depress the scapula, pulling your arms back and trying to turn your thumbs to the ceiling so that your palms are facing away from you. You can throw Y's in there......same position again, this time you are going overhead (not directly) but in more of a Y formation (think same type of movement as scaption raises just lying prone) with thumbs up. Start with no weight...progress slowly. Build stability. Use some iso's at contraction.
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! Ivonne's Blog on Health and Wellness! Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

04-03-2007, 11:57 AM	#7
CowPimp Fueled by Testosterone Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 15,428	P knows his stuff. Some of the exercises I used with a lot of success when coming back from my shoulder subluxation: Pushup plus/serratus pushups External rotations with cables YTWLs I probably used those the most. Good luck guy!
	The only time it's bad to feel the burn is when you're peeing... CowPimp Picks Up Heavy Shit MySpace YouTube Videos

04-03-2007, 12:09 PM	#8
Dale Mabry Moderator Moderator Join Date: May 2003 Location: Elsewhere Posts: 13,872 Photos: 10	For post-rehab work, I like Retracted presses. They are just shoulder presses with a band, and you anchor the band a foot or so in front of you down near your feet so the band pulls your hands forward. Pull band back in to position, retract your scapula, and go to work with shoulder presses. Since I added these into my warm-up, my bursitis/tendonitis has gone away. After you have done what P said, give these a try to prevent reoccurrence.
	If sense were common, everyone would have it. 4/2007-Current 75th Ranked most popular image 1 spot behind Prince's bulge...

04-01-2007, 08:23 PM	#3
Pirate! Gatekepper Moderator Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 5,757	My Serratus has been seriously neglected. What are A's and T's? I've been doing the scaption raises, low rows and external rotations. I'll make the serratus push ups my only pressing for the next few weeks.

04-02-2007, 06:44 AM	#6
Pirate! Gatekepper Moderator Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 5,757	I used to do the Ts and Push Up Plus after my first surgery. I'm going to incorporate all these exercises. I'll let you know how it all goes. Many thanks, P!

04-03-2007, 09:59 PM	#9
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,570	^^ interesting. never done that one. Using theraband or even a light cable and doing PNF patterns is another awesome one for helping to restore proprioception. we use it a ton.
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! Ivonne's Blog on Health and Wellness! Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

04-04-2007, 07:05 AM	#10
Pirate! Gatekepper Moderator Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 5,757	Pushup plus/serratus pushups are rather new to me. Any specific things I need to watch for? Elbows in/out, pace? I'll try the retracted presses in a few weeks. What are YTWL and PNF patterns?

04-04-2007, 07:55 AM	#11
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,570	I'm drying to find a picture for you. It is tough to describe the PNF patterns. Like, if you had some theraband or light cable in your right hand. You would start down at your left side and make a diagonal pattern across your body until your arm is out overhead (at a slight angle) and externally rotated (like drawing a sword). This is a D2 pattern. A D1 pattern is the opposite. I will try and find a picture sometime today.
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! Ivonne's Blog on Health and Wellness! Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

04-04-2007, 08:30 AM	#12
IainDaniel My Role Model Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 15,850	YTWL â€œY-T-W-Lâ€ SHOULDER MATRIX Video: Triathlon training: YTWL from ExpertVillage
	Obstacles don't have to stop you. If you run into a wall, don't turn around and give up. Figure out how to climb it, go through it, or work around it. Michael Jordan

04-04-2007, 02:59 PM	#13
Pirate! Gatekepper Moderator Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 5,757	Ok, I got PNF down. I'll try that with a light band. I'll add the YTMLs too. Thanks!

04-16-2007, 10:04 AM	#15
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,570
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! Ivonne's Blog on Health and Wellness! Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

04-16-2007, 10:06 AM	#16
IainDaniel My Role Model Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 15,850	Ok that is what I thought. Thanks
	Obstacles don't have to stop you. If you run into a wall, don't turn around and give up. Figure out how to climb it, go through it, or work around it. Michael Jordan

04-16-2007, 01:11 PM	#17
IainDaniel My Role Model Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 15,850	Seemed like a decent powerpoint presentation especially for Throwers http://uconnsportsmed.uchc.edu/patie...otatorcuff.pdf
	Obstacles don't have to stop you. If you run into a wall, don't turn around and give up. Figure out how to climb it, go through it, or work around it. Michael Jordan

04-16-2007, 02:06 PM	#18
IainDaniel My Role Model Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 15,850	More I read about GIRD, the more I start to wonder. I just did a self check based on images shown on the internet. ROM in my throwing shoulder is completely off compared to my non-throwing shoulder.
	Obstacles don't have to stop you. If you run into a wall, don't turn around and give up. Figure out how to climb it, go through it, or work around it. Michael Jordan

04-16-2007, 02:37 PM	#19
iMan323 Preved Medved! Elite Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Brooklyn Posts: 947	I like this article: http://www.t-nation.com/portal_inclu...-training.html And if you're really looking for a radical departure ...http://www.egoscue.com Last edited by iMan323 : 04-16-2007 at 02:49 PM.

04-16-2007, 06:22 PM	#21
IainDaniel My Role Model Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 15,850	Yeah I know it is just finding someone I trust. I didn't think much of my first PT when I first started to treat this 10 years ago.
	Obstacles don't have to stop you. If you run into a wall, don't turn around and give up. Figure out how to climb it, go through it, or work around it. Michael Jordan

04-18-2007, 11:39 PM	#22
THE BEAST Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 22	my shoulder is a little messed up to i still work my shoulders im always looking for different workouts to try this is a good article thanks p im not sure what they called but you raise your arm straight out in front of you with dumbbells i know its a good shoulder workout but they are hard for me to do sometimes my shoulder pops also sometimes with the overhead lifts one thing i like to do is hold a light weight out and rotate it up and down if that makes any since
THE BEAST Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 22

04-23-2007, 01:04 PM	#23
IainDaniel My Role Model Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 15,850	Another good link for Throwers http://uconnsportsmed.uchc.edu/patie...5_scapular.pdf Fuck I wish I was smarter, it is pretty interesting reading this shit.
	Obstacles don't have to stop you. If you run into a wall, don't turn around and give up. Figure out how to climb it, go through it, or work around it. Michael Jordan

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