Thread: Tempo / TUT

T-Nation has this article.

Thats a very good article to post up there DOMS. I have been using alot of eccentric work for the past few weeks and can really notice a good size difference already!

Yeah, cheers, DOMS! Ive given it a good read, and it goes into quite a bit of detail.

I was looking at a 3/1/2/1, or 4/1/2/1 tempo but im not sure, lol. More reading needed.

good article

I am not into slowing down the concentric of a lift. slow eccentrics and isometrics at different positions can be effective though.

you have to try and it and see. Some coaches/trainers don't believe that accounting for rep tempo means anything. they throw it out the window.

I think it can be effective when used in different phases.

Originally Posted by P-funk

I am not into slowing down the concentric of a lift. slow eccentrics and isometrics at different positions can be effective though.

you have to try and it and see. Some coaches/trainers don't believe that accounting for rep tempo means anything. they throw it out the window.

I think it can be effective when used in different phases.

Yeah, thats what i was thinking. I put some ideas down in my journal, and id use the tempo'd lifts (slower eccentrics) in a hypertrophy phase.

So slowing down concentric portion isnt really beneficial?

I can see how pausing at an isometric would be a good idea, though.

I was dubious about the tempo doing anything at first, but Double D seems to be getting some good results with it, so at least i know it CAN work if used right, haha.

Cheers, P!

I dont slow the concentric either, for the most part anyways. Like P has suggested to me, work on slow concentrics with things like abs and calves.

Originally Posted by Double D

I dont slow the concentric either, for the most part anyways. Like P has suggested to me, work on slow concentrics with things like abs and calves.

Ahh, i see...

What are some of the tempos youve used?

I saw a few in your journal lately, but have there been others before?

Hum.....

For Dips I like to use alot of iso's, especially with heavy ass weight. I use 2 plates on dips pop out about 10 or so and the last one do a hold at the bottom.

For bench I like to use an iso hold there as well. But bench is where I will use tempos that range from controlled all the way to 30 second eccentric.

Just keep it simple dont think to much in it, but be creative, it makes it fun. I would work on tempo for 2-3 weeks then start working with a controlled tempo once again. remember sometimes to much of a good thing can turn out to be a bad thing.

I like anywhere from 3-5 count negatives.

Iso's can really vary depending on what you are doing.....iso-concentric could be 3-6 count holds (ie, pause at the bottom of a bench press before the concentric). You could do BW iso's and hold for time...iso squats, iso split squats, planks, etc....You could do isometrics where you are holding a specific position and pushing (or pulling) against a fixed object (ie pin pushes or pulling a deadlifting from the floor to knee level where you have pins set and contracting against that....using an empty bar). etc....lots of options with that.

Originally Posted by Double D

Hum.....

For Dips I like to use alot of iso's, especially with heavy ass weight. I use 2 plates on dips pop out about 10 or so and the last one do a hold at the bottom.

For bench I like to use an iso hold there as well. But bench is where I will use tempos that range from controlled all the way to 30 second eccentric.

30sec Eccentric!?!?!? Bloody hell! Thats gotta be tough...

Originally Posted by Double D

Just keep it simple dont think to much in it, but be creative, it makes it fun. I would work on tempo for 2-3 weeks then start working with a controlled tempo once again. remember sometimes to much of a good thing can turn out to be a bad thing.

Yeah, im guessing that with the increased TUT and especially exaggerated negative portions it would be quite a bit more taxing than just doing controlled reps.

Thanks for the tips

30sec eccentrics seems excessive to me. research shows that it takes approx. 6sec. to fully disipate the mytotatic stretch reflex.

I dont know because of course I have never researched it farther than doing it, but I like it.

slowing the concentric won't do shit for you

Originally Posted by P-funk

I like anywhere from 3-5 count negatives.

Iso's can really vary depending on what you are doing.....iso-concentric could be 3-6 count holds (ie, pause at the bottom of a bench press before the concentric). You could do BW iso's and hold for time...iso squats, iso split squats, planks, etc....You could do isometrics where you are holding a specific position and pushing (or pulling) against a fixed object (ie pin pushes or pulling a deadlifting from the floor to knee level where you have pins set and contracting against that....using an empty bar). etc....lots of options with that.

I'd really have to take the weight down to be able to handle 5 count negatives for reps, lol. That sounds tough!

What would be the benefits of pausing for any sort of time at iso? I know some of the reasoning behind it is to "dispel" elastic energy so you're actually moving the weight with just muscle power. Can that really take up to 6 seconds?

Cheers for that info, i never would have thought of pushing/pulling against a fixed object, lol.

Originally Posted by Duncans Donuts

slowing the concentric won't do shit for you

I believe it will for doing something like crunches.

Originally Posted by Double D

I believe it will for doing something like crunches.

I don't think so. Slowing down the concentric makes no sense at all. It just teaches you to move slowly when applying force.....not a trait a strive for.

What if your overall goal is hypertrophy (like a bodybuilder), and dont care about functional strength at all?

Originally Posted by Double D

What if your overall goal is hypertrophy (like a bodybuilder), and dont care about functional strength at all?

I still don't see how that would change it. To get bigger, you are going to need to get stronger. To lift at such slow tempos (basically super slow training) is not going to allow you to lift heavier weight.

that is why it needs to be applied properly and it should be in phases.

Originally Posted by Duncans Donuts

slowing the concentric won't do shit for you

I think the high school weight lifting class was the last time I did them.

Along with pyramid preacher curls. I got so good, I could pyramid back up to the full weighted set. Eh.

Meh... faster tempo with more weights, slower tempo with less? Right?

No not at all. You cycle tempo in and out of your training. The amount of weight means very little.

Concentric lifts are not as demanding as eccentrics, and I can pretty easily demonstrate this.

For one, you are far weaker during a concentric lift. Muscle friction (as presented by Arthur Jones) being the reasoning behind this. In effect when the actin and myosin filaments rub against each other, they are creating enough friction to limit your motion.

During an eccentric stretch, the filaments are also rubbing against each other. However, this friction benefits the motion. It allows you to use heavier weights and control the descent.

Do a curl with 30 pounds where you literally can't do any more concentric action. Then have someone lift it for you to the contracted position and you will easily be able to lower the weight. This means you haven't fully exhausted the muscle, doesn't it? You are literally still strong enough to perform the negative exercise. If you can continue to perform the exercise in the negative phase, then the concentric portion is limiting your muscle being entirely fatigued.

This is the theory behind negative only training. If you are doing negative only training, you are creating more fatigue, more friction (which it could be hypothesized causes more muscle microtrauma) and using more weight than you could use with a concentric lift.

Good post D. Thank you.