Thread: RDL's and hams

1. I don't feel my hams either really when doing deadlift variations, but they're becoming bigger and stronger so I don't care. Don't focus on your muscles, focus on the movement.

2. If your form is good, you should just continue doing what you're doing and you'll progress.

3. Pull-throughs, glute ham raises, reverse hypers, unilateral dumbell deadlift, 1-leg-RDL, leg curls (I don't like these), and glute bridge variations.

I really feel it in the hams when I do RDLs. But if I don't do them correctly, I don't feel 'em.

The only exercise that I makes me feel it more is Zercher Good-mornings.

Originally Posted by DOMS

I really feel it in the hams when I do RDLs. But if I don't do them correctly, I don't feel 'em.

The only exercise that I makes me feel it more is Zercher Good-mornings.

Any variation of Good Mornings really hits my hams and glutes hard.

The Zercher variety are tough as hell

theres no way you can isolate your hams from the lower back with a deadlift variation. You say that your lower back is weak though so thats a good thing. The function of the ham is to extend at the hips so saying that you don't feel it on the way up is fine. you should be feeling it in your lower back on the way up. Its a good thing to go lower to the ground (parallel). Just remember to fire in your glutes and hips as you come up. don't be afraid to get stronger in the RDL and stiff legged deads.

As far as Ham movements the hands down BEST hamstring movement, bar none, is the glute ham raise, don't even wastes your time on the hamstring curl, its a pathetic movement:

EliteFTS - Superior Products and Knowledge for Lifters, Athletes, Coaches, and Trainers

most likely you don't go to a gym that has a GHR machine, in fact I'd bet on it, so you might have to find a facsimile which isn't quite as good but its better than nothing. you can do this by securing your feet onto something and mimicking the movement. either that or you could have a partner hold your feet on a bench. In the long run though I HIGHLY suggest buying a GHR machine. you can find used ones around for cheap on ebay and what not and just take it to whatever gym you go. Its an incredible investement to make.

Also its important to not shy away from lower back movements, its extremely important to strengthen your core. use variety and get strong in the lower back. its not a bad thing to bend the lower back a little bit, its kindof inevitable if your goin to get stronger. Make sure to be safe but at the same time everyone treats the lower back like its a fragile muscle that needs to be avoided to stay injury free when infact its the opposite. The reason poeple injure it is b/c iof years of squatting and deadlifting with no direct lower back and core strength training. good luck

My gym doesnt have a glute-raise station. The lat pulldown's cushions arent big enough for both knees. And the lowest setting on the smith machine is about 1.5 feet from the ground.

Originally Posted by AKIRA

My gym doesnt have a glute-raise station. The lat pulldown's cushions arent big enough for both knees. And the lowest setting on the smith machine is about 1.5 feet from the ground.

shocking!!! I bet they have plenty of cardio stations and benches though. man its so frustrating. this is a relatively cheap piece of equipment and almost no gyms except Division 1 schools and serious strength training facilities have this or the reverse hyper. Its really sad. I have access to one by accident really. There was a clique of older powerlifters at the last gym I trained at who had bought one and kept it there and now I basically train wherever they go. I don't know what I would do without the GHR seriously, its kindof the single most important piece of equipment I use to be honest. you can find a way to secure your feet somewhere I bet though. it may not be great but its better than nothing hopefully

My gym is a 'fitness center' really. Tons of cardio equipment that is not needed, 2 benches, 1 incline, 1 squat cage, 2 smith machines, 2 pulley stations, and tons of machines.

DBs go up to 150 though...

My gym is brand new and the place theyre using used to be a Wal-Mart. So we thought at first, "hey, its gonna be huge, shiny, and ill never want to leave." Nope.

ditto man, I feel your pain. the place I used to train at was ok b/c we could do our powerlifting thing in peace until they suddenly closed so now I'm at a brand new Gold's which has 4 floors, only of which 1 has free weights. The rest of the gym is tanning beds and theater rooms full of ellipticals. its fuccin absurd, EVERY single cardio machine in the entire place has a HD TV on it, not to mention the two flat plasma screens in each room. my only solace is the GHR and reverse hyper in the corner that we brought with us.. lol.. well that and the beautiful dumb airheads that a health club like that attracts

Originally Posted by gr81

theres no way you can isolate your hams from the lower back with a deadlift variation. You say that your lower back is weak though so thats a good thing. The function of the ham is to extend at the hips so saying that you don't feel it on the way up is fine. you should be feeling it in your lower back on the way up. Its a good thing to go lower to the ground (parallel). Just remember to fire in your glutes and hips as you come up. don't be afraid to get stronger in the RDL and stiff legged deads.

As far as Ham movements the hands down BEST hamstring movement, bar none, is the glute ham raise, don't even wastes your time on the hamstring curl, its a pathetic movement:

EliteFTS - Superior Products and Knowledge for Lifters, Athletes, Coaches, and Trainers

most likely you don't go to a gym that has a GHR machine, in fact I'd bet on it, so you might have to find a facsimile which isn't quite as good but its better than nothing. you can do this by securing your feet onto something and mimicking the movement. either that or you could have a partner hold your feet on a bench. In the long run though I HIGHLY suggest buying a GHR machine. you can find used ones around for cheap on ebay and what not and just take it to whatever gym you go. Its an incredible investement to make.

Also its important to not shy away from lower back movements, its extremely important to strengthen your core. use variety and get strong in the lower back. its not a bad thing to bend the lower back a little bit, its kindof inevitable if your goin to get stronger. Make sure to be safe but at the same time everyone treats the lower back like its a fragile muscle that needs to be avoided to stay injury free when infact its the opposite. The reason poeple injure it is b/c iof years of squatting and deadlifting with no direct lower back and core strength training. good luck

Right on man! they dont have a glute ham raise... anyway to substitute that movement with something that they would have? they have hyper's... about 3000 machines to work abs and bis

I'm trying to get my lowerback stronger... i'm on a blinding focus to get it stronger so i can work out my legs more effectively.
Last week, I did RDL's and HyperExt's and my lower back was _TOASTED_

(light weight on the RDL's and no weight on the hypers, and i'm not tubby so i've come to the conclusion that my lower back has been injected with estrogen

So all that said, do you suggest that I continue with 2 movements that will effect my lower back too? Ya know what, screw it, next week, i'll just do RDL's and pullthroughs.

^^alot of gyms have those ab planks where you can fix your feet in and do sit ups. you can fix your feet in there and try it that way. if not then I'm sure theres is something you can find somewhere, perhaps a power rack, in your gym that you can fit your feet in between that and the floor and put your knees on a pad and do them that way. Its what I used to do before I had GHR access. lol
regarding how many movements to do, if your doin two movements that have similar function then that might be wasted effort perhaps. (not that RDL and pull throughs are) You might have to wade into the lower back training if you want to remain mobile the rest of the week, but you'll get there. Another huge thing to remember is to strength train the abs as well, very important! and I don't mean thousands of crunches either. I mean low rep heavy weight movements that require stabilization along with the lower back training. Go to that link I posted and peep that web site, its the mother of all strength training sites and there are so many different movements on there that are awesome. Goodmornings should be a staple of your routine imo.

Just look around and get creative. You can find a way to do a glute ham raise. I have yet to encounter a gym yet where I couldn't do it. At my current place of employment we have some free bench pads floating around. I place this on top of, and perpendicular to the pad on the lat pulldown machine to give my knees some room. Then I anchor my feet under the knee pads and touch my toes to the machine (Making a decent toe plate).

I also set the pin to the whole stack and run a band through the pulldown handle attachment area. I hold the band as I go down to give me assistance. A ghetto setup like this is harder than on a regular GHR machine because of the increased lever arm distance.

^^way to be creative cp

Initial question...My guess is that you arenot completely on your heels. Your knee angle can be good, and your posture can be great, but if you don't direct the force through the heels, yolu won;t feel it in your hammis.

As for GHR without a machine. I have done eccentrics hooking my heels under a leg press machine (About the only good use of the leg press, btw) with a towel under my knees. The other way I did it was on the 45 degree angle hyper machine with a band attached perpendicular to me by a weight. Decent ham work, but not ideal, obviously.

maybe you are flexing at your spine to much and not getting your butt back enough?

Make sure you are really contracting your glultes. The glutes are the number one hip flexor, followed by the hamstrings and then the adductors.

Don't sweat it if you don't have a glute ham machine. I don't have one and have never had one. I still survived and I have never done the exercise (maybe a few times when i was in a gym with a glute ham).

If I bend over parallel, weight on my heels, legs stff, and butt pushed back, I feel the pull in my hammies quite well. RDLs I do feel during my WO. I suspect it is your form that keeps you from feeling the hammies. To me it is kind of like when I do pull downs, I have to kind of find the groove and feel the muscle being acitvated before I start the exercise. I find that if I use the first rep to get my butt in position to feel the activation of the hammies the rest of the set is focused on the hammies. Spend some time with it. I only need to stick my butt out a few inches and I feel the transition from lower back to hammies.

Originally Posted by motiv8ed

Hey guys,
Past 2 weeks i've been doing a new routine. I just want to run a couple things by you guys for my leg day.

RDL's:
I've been doing very light weight (25 lb per side) when doing exercise.
Warming up with 2 10 lb plates per side.

heres my question about RDL's... I watched the instructional video thats been floating around where Dan John shows how to execute RDL's that really helped out alot... when i dont use any weight at all... i can feel my hams stretch but when i add weight it feels like i have to go lower(bring my chest closer to the ground, almost parallel with the ground) to really feel anything in my hams (it could be mental focus change) _ALSO_ I'm not sure how to go UP using my hams... I dont feel anything in my hams when going up. BUT I FEEL IT IN MY LOWER BACK REALLY GOOD!

Heres why I think it is:
I've been using really light wieght to get my lowerback up to scratch on the movement. It seems that my lower back is pathetically weak because after 1 warmup set and 3 RDL sets my lower back is toast. So much that i cant do a second compound movement like hyper ext. or goodmorning, i have to do a concentrated ham raise to get a second exercise in.

Today i had someone watch me execute the movement. He said that my form was fantastic, (though he wasnt a trainer or anything, i just wanted to make sure i wasnt even coming close to arching my back, rather that i was bending from the waist with a straight back)

Heres my questions:
1.) Where is focus at in going _up_ in the movement?
2.) How long did it take you guys to get your lower back and stabalizers to the point to where you could really start the exercise?
3.) Are there any other HAMSTRING exercises i can do besides the retarded 1 legged ham raise machine? I dont enjoy doing it at all. Anything I can do that wont also target my lower back?

Thanks guys.

Originally Posted by P-funk

maybe you are flexing at your spine to much and not getting your butt back enough?

Make sure you are really contracting your glultes. The glutes are the number one hip flexor, followed by the hamstrings and then the adductors.

Don't sweat it if you don't have a glute ham machine. I don't have one and have never had one. I still survived and I have never done the exercise (maybe a few times when i was in a gym with a glute ham).

Right on P, I wasnt conciously contracting my glutes... Coming up in the movment just didnt feel right and I bet thats exactly why. I was bummed that Scott persuaded me to post-pone our meeting cuz i was going to show you how I was doing RDL's! lol it was my alterior motive for the day !!

I'll also try driving through the heels too.

I'm gonna post up my routine.. (i've associated pain to doing this though, I get reminded how little i know every time I post my routine)

This is an interesting hammie exercise:

2. The Reverse Squat

This is a cool exercise that's basically the opposite of a squat. It's fairly easy, so it's best kept as the second exercise of a hamstrings superset or used with some special training techniques such as double contraction or super-slow reps.

Take a lat pulldown bar attached to a high pulley station and shoulder it like you would with a squat bar. Take a squatting stance and slowly pull yourself down. This is the same movement pattern as with a squat but the resistance is pulling upward instead of downward.


This exercise focuses primarily on the hamstrings; it's basically the closed-chain equivalent of a seated leg curl. It also works the lats, rear delts, forearms, and biceps, which must all contract isometrically to hold the bar in place.

The key point is to avoid using your own body weight to lower the weight. Some people will let themselves fall down, which decreases the need to rely on the muscles to do the job.

If the weight is too heavy and your feet tend to come off of the floor, put a pair of dumbbells over your feet or have partner hold you down. You can also vary the foot stance and even use a lunge/split squat stance if you want.

The best methods to use with this exercise are:

1) Low double contraction: Squat down completely, slowly bring yourself halfway up, pull yourself back down, and finally get back to the starting position. This is one repetition.

2) Super-slow movement: Pull yourself down in 5-10 seconds and bring yourself back up in 5-10 seconds.

Testosterone Nation - 7 Exercises From Thib's Toolbox

I would think you would be pulling more with your arms than anything on that.

for sure, is that just a tricep pulldown she's on?! I don't know about how great a ham movement that is

Reverse squats suck IMO. I've tried them.