bench targeting chest

AKIRA · 05-17-2007, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kinkery

ohwell, you have your beliefs and i have mine

beliefs? Is this really so hard to believe? Not to bring soreness into it, but ive never felt parts of my chest sore. Its either the whole chest or none of it at all.

I was a bodypart training junkie even AFTER I enlisted here. I finally gave movement training a try and some maxes have gone up (if youre worried about numbers) as far as how I look, look at the pics in my myspace. My 221lb pic is from bodypart training. The other two are from movement training. Which ones look healthiest? No changes in my cut and bulk diets, just exercise order and frequency.

kinkery · 05-17-2007, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKIRA

beliefs? Is this really so hard to believe? Not to bring soreness into it, but ive never felt parts of my chest sore. Its either the whole chest or none of it at all.

I was a bodypart training junkie even AFTER I enlisted here. I finally gave movement training a try and some maxes have gone up (if youre worried about numbers) as far as how I look, look at the pics in my myspace. My 221lb pic is from bodypart training. The other two are from movement training. Which ones look healthiest? No changes in my cut and bulk diets, just exercise order and frequency.

well its either my upper or mid/lower chest sore the next day. also ur myspace says "The user you're trying to view has set all their photos to private"

Malley · 05-17-2007, 01:28 PM

Its because Akira is cool like that. I didnt realize that, I guess we are so tight I got right in, pardon the pun.

AKIRA · 05-17-2007, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kinkery

well its either my upper or mid/lower chest sore the next day. also ur myspace says "The user you're trying to view has set all their photos to private"

It does? God dammit. This piece of shit whore pissed me off a few weeks ago and I messed with my settings, but I thought I changed it. Now I am at work so I cant change it for hours.

Youre serious that you definetly feel sections of your chest sore? I feel the bulk of my chest sore. If I feel the upper area of my chest has some soreness, you can bet your cabooce its my anterior deltoids and not my chest.

Whats the harm in just thinking about how physiology works?

Malley · 05-17-2007, 01:38 PM

Honestly if you are feeling one part or another sore it doesnt mean nothing. I dont know how many times we have said, "soreness means nothing"! Besdies that ask anyone who is familiar with teh human body and they will tell you there is no such thing as the upper part of the pectoralis major.

AKIRA · 05-17-2007, 01:42 PM

Yeha, I only brought soreness into this to help with kinkery to understand, but it doesnt seem to be working.

This topic sucks. The answer is pretty damn obvious.

There was another thread a long time ago about someone saying heavy DB Flies were better than Barbell benches for size. Now that was an interesting quarrel.

Malley · 05-17-2007, 01:51 PM

To many people read to many Wieder magazines, bottom line.

Hialeahchico · 05-17-2007, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duncans Donuts
i am a few credits away from a physiology degree and i can say without question you are fucking stupid as shit.

**CowPimp** · 05-17-2007, 08:13 PM

There are two heads to the pectoralis major: sternal and clavicular. EMG studies indicate that it is possible to shift the emphasis between these two heads to some degree, though the difference is not huge. Unfortunately, I have yet to see any definitive proof that emphasis of the inner fibers of the pectoralis major is possible.

AKIRA · 05-17-2007, 08:26 PM

How much stock do you put in EMGs in regard to overall muscle development?

Big G · 05-18-2007, 09:27 AM

Last night I'm reading Arnold's Bodybuilding Encyclopedia and he recommends Preacher Curls to develop the (often hollow/flat) area between the bicep and the inner elbow.

Now, I ask you, based on what we've been talking about here, how can that be?

Malley · 05-18-2007, 09:42 AM

It cant be. It is the old bb'ing lingo. Every bb'ing mag talks about it.

Witchblade · 05-18-2007, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big G

Last night I'm reading Arnold's Bodybuilding Encyclopedia

That's where it went wrong.

Phred · 05-18-2007, 02:03 PM

Back when I was in HS and started lifting at a local gym (mid 1970s) it was thought that if you wanted to work the inner chest, you used a wider grip and to work the outer chest you used a narrower grip (not as in a narrow grip BP). Basically you moved your hands in or out a few inches on the bar from shoulder width. It was also thought that using a Scott bench (preacher bench) that you would work the lower bicep. Now a lot of books have been written with these kinds of philosophies over the years with no real scientific support to targeting parts of the muscles. This was the guidance given and accepted at my gym. And while it may seem logical that you can work a part of a muscle, you simply cannot isolate a portion of a muscle. The other guidance was that when you take these blue vitamins, youhave to workout extra intensly or you will gain fat. No one talked about PCT or liver functions. My point is that a lot has been learned from those days and books/articles written "back in the day" need to be viewed as entertainment. I am not saying the exercises suggested in the books are not useful, it is just that the exercises may not have the effects as written (or believed at the time). Genetics, personal physical differences, etc. have more to do with how your muscles are shaped than a particular exercise.

Malley · 05-18-2007, 02:08 PM

Nice post Phred.

kinkery · 05-18-2007, 02:35 PM

yeah nice post Phred

. anyway. to build an impressive chest stick with incline and Flat

.

AKIRA · 05-18-2007, 03:06 PM

Incline or Flat?

Why not decline?

Speaking of EMGs, Muscle & Fitness (a mag thats been used as a reference here) did some EMG tests on the chest and discovered that a decline DB press got those most activity, with a decline BB press right behind it.

If you never want to do some exercises, thats fine. There are some I dont do, but when/if I hit a plateau, I might think about swallowing my pride and doing something different.

Malley · 05-18-2007, 03:08 PM

Bottom line is a variety is best. But there is no way to target a specific area. And if that is true then I think I am going to go do some crunches to spot reduce my stomach area. You see I got this slight pudge there.

Duncans Donuts · 05-18-2007, 03:12 PM

EMG studies mean less than nothing. Decline barbell presses have shortest range of motion and tension time. Give me a break.

Malley · 05-18-2007, 03:13 PM

Yeah I was thinking about that to. And thats why I hardly ever do them. I can handle alot of weight with it, but the ROM is so close to nothing.

AKIRA · 05-18-2007, 03:14 PM

I never put much faith in EMG studies. Just trying to attack this from all angles and on both sides of the fence.

AKIRA · 05-18-2007, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double D

Bottom line is a variety is best. But there is no way to target a specific area. And if that is true then I think I am going to go do some crunches to spot reduce my stomach area. You see I got this slight pudge there.

In the latest issue of Muscle & Fitness, there is an article that talks about less fat cells in an area that is being worked!!!!!!

Malley · 05-18-2007, 03:17 PM

I know I so gotta work on my stomach (but the lower part), with hanging leg raises, I gotta work on my peak with preacher curls, I want that barbell lookin chest so I will be doing flyes, And most of all I need to lose fat in my face so I wil be doing face suctions..........

Stewart20 · 05-18-2007, 07:38 PM

I'm surprised no one mentioned DB bench as far as "targeting the chest" goes, I think it builds the chest up better than any angle barbell bench.

**CowPimp** · 05-18-2007, 08:28 PM

I don't put much stock in EMG studies, but I think some people deem them a bit more worthless than they are. Nonetheless, the differences that I have seen with regard to the topic at hand are pretty small, and not something I would use EMGs to base my decisions on.

Also, to add a thought, even if it were true that certain variations were capable of stimulating contraction of specific portions of a muscle, we have no idea which exercises actually accomplish this anyway. Current suggestions are based on entirely faulty information, and that's if it's even possible.

Leatherface · 05-18-2007, 08:40 PM

I also find it interesting that these EMG studies are on exercises that most people are strongest in. The two I have seen (Decline Bench and reversegrip chins) allow the lifter to lift more weight than their counterparts (flat/incline bench and wide grip chins) so perhaps THAT accounts for the most activity?

mrmark · 05-19-2007, 04:49 AM

So based on what you guys have learnt, is it near impossible to place more emphasis on the clavicular head (upper pec)?

Hypothetically, if you could, would it be at such an incline the action would be approaching more of a military press?

05-17-2007, 01:28 PM	#63
Malley Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 10,021	Its because Akira is cool like that. I didnt realize that, I guess we are so tight I got right in, pardon the pun.
	www.crossfit.com

05-17-2007, 01:38 PM	#65
Malley Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 10,021	Honestly if you are feeling one part or another sore it doesnt mean nothing. I dont know how many times we have said, "soreness means nothing"! Besdies that ask anyone who is familiar with teh human body and they will tell you there is no such thing as the upper part of the pectoralis major.
	www.crossfit.com

05-17-2007, 01:42 PM	#66
AKIRA I am Rollo Tomassee.. Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Outside the box Posts: 7,918 Photos: 3	Yeha, I only brought soreness into this to help with kinkery to understand, but it doesnt seem to be working. This topic sucks. The answer is pretty damn obvious. There was another thread a long time ago about someone saying heavy DB Flies were better than Barbell benches for size. Now that was an interesting quarrel.
	6' 209lbs (8/16) Bench 360 (11/29) Weighted Pullups 80lbs 3x3 (3/19) Squat 370 Deadlift after herniation 385lbs 3x3 (3/17) NASM certified 2/06 Journal

05-17-2007, 01:51 PM	#67
Malley Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 10,021	To many people read to many Wieder magazines, bottom line.
	www.crossfit.com

05-17-2007, 08:13 PM	#69
CowPimp Fueled by Testosterone Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 15,428	There are two heads to the pectoralis major: sternal and clavicular. EMG studies indicate that it is possible to shift the emphasis between these two heads to some degree, though the difference is not huge. Unfortunately, I have yet to see any definitive proof that emphasis of the inner fibers of the pectoralis major is possible.
	The only time it's bad to feel the burn is when you're peeing... CowPimp Picks Up Heavy Shit MySpace YouTube Videos

05-17-2007, 08:26 PM	#70
AKIRA I am Rollo Tomassee.. Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Outside the box Posts: 7,918 Photos: 3	How much stock do you put in EMGs in regard to overall muscle development?
	6' 209lbs (8/16) Bench 360 (11/29) Weighted Pullups 80lbs 3x3 (3/19) Squat 370 Deadlift after herniation 385lbs 3x3 (3/17) NASM certified 2/06 Journal

05-18-2007, 09:27 AM	#71
Big G Gettin' Diesel. Elite Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Cols,OH. It sucks. Posts: 1,212 Photos: 1	Last night I'm reading Arnold's Bodybuilding Encyclopedia and he recommends Preacher Curls to develop the (often hollow/flat) area between the bicep and the inner elbow. Now, I ask you, based on what we've been talking about here, how can that be?
	Goal...... DL:500lb, Sqt:400lb, Bnch:300lb Current.. DL:375lb, Sqt:335lb, Bnch:260lb Weight: 185lb (up 25lb), bf=15%ish Age:35 Training since 11/06 journal

05-18-2007, 09:42 AM	#72
Malley Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 10,021	It cant be. It is the old bb'ing lingo. Every bb'ing mag talks about it.
	www.crossfit.com

05-18-2007, 02:03 PM	#74
Phred On a journey....... Elite Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Back in Sacramento, CA again Posts: 672 Photos: 4	Back when I was in HS and started lifting at a local gym (mid 1970s) it was thought that if you wanted to work the inner chest, you used a wider grip and to work the outer chest you used a narrower grip (not as in a narrow grip BP). Basically you moved your hands in or out a few inches on the bar from shoulder width. It was also thought that using a Scott bench (preacher bench) that you would work the lower bicep. Now a lot of books have been written with these kinds of philosophies over the years with no real scientific support to targeting parts of the muscles. This was the guidance given and accepted at my gym. And while it may seem logical that you can work a part of a muscle, you simply cannot isolate a portion of a muscle. The other guidance was that when you take these blue vitamins, youhave to workout extra intensly or you will gain fat. No one talked about PCT or liver functions. My point is that a lot has been learned from those days and books/articles written "back in the day" need to be viewed as entertainment. I am not saying the exercises suggested in the books are not useful, it is just that the exercises may not have the effects as written (or believed at the time). Genetics, personal physical differences, etc. have more to do with how your muscles are shaped than a particular exercise.
	If you always have a great day, you will always have a great life. "The gym offers force and pain and relief. It provides challenge and struggle and satisfaction." Dave Draper

05-18-2007, 02:08 PM	#75
Malley Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 10,021	Nice post Phred.
	www.crossfit.com

05-18-2007, 02:35 PM	#76
kinkery Make them want to be you! Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 998	yeah nice post Phred . anyway. to build an impressive chest stick with incline and Flat .

05-18-2007, 03:06 PM	#77
AKIRA I am Rollo Tomassee.. Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Outside the box Posts: 7,918 Photos: 3	Incline or Flat? Why not decline? Speaking of EMGs, Muscle & Fitness (a mag thats been used as a reference here) did some EMG tests on the chest and discovered that a decline DB press got those most activity, with a decline BB press right behind it. If you never want to do some exercises, thats fine. There are some I dont do, but when/if I hit a plateau, I might think about swallowing my pride and doing something different.
	6' 209lbs (8/16) Bench 360 (11/29) Weighted Pullups 80lbs 3x3 (3/19) Squat 370 Deadlift after herniation 385lbs 3x3 (3/17) NASM certified 2/06 Journal

05-18-2007, 03:08 PM	#78
Malley Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 10,021	Bottom line is a variety is best. But there is no way to target a specific area. And if that is true then I think I am going to go do some crunches to spot reduce my stomach area. You see I got this slight pudge there.
	www.crossfit.com

05-18-2007, 03:12 PM	#79
Duncans Donuts Stay puffed, baby. Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: CA Posts: 2,774 Photos: 2	EMG studies mean less than nothing. Decline barbell presses have shortest range of motion and tension time. Give me a break.
	"in the howling bleeding nights, the dogs plunge into the Volga and swim desperately to gain the other bank. The nights of Stalingrad are a terror for them. Animals flee this hell; the hardest stones cannot bear it for long; only men endure."

05-18-2007, 03:13 PM	#80
Malley Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 10,021	Yeah I was thinking about that to. And thats why I hardly ever do them. I can handle alot of weight with it, but the ROM is so close to nothing.
	www.crossfit.com

05-18-2007, 03:14 PM	#81
AKIRA I am Rollo Tomassee.. Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Outside the box Posts: 7,918 Photos: 3	I never put much faith in EMG studies. Just trying to attack this from all angles and on both sides of the fence.
	6' 209lbs (8/16) Bench 360 (11/29) Weighted Pullups 80lbs 3x3 (3/19) Squat 370 Deadlift after herniation 385lbs 3x3 (3/17) NASM certified 2/06 Journal

05-18-2007, 03:17 PM	#83
Malley Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 10,021	I know I so gotta work on my stomach (but the lower part), with hanging leg raises, I gotta work on my peak with preacher curls, I want that barbell lookin chest so I will be doing flyes, And most of all I need to lose fat in my face so I wil be doing face suctions..........
	www.crossfit.com

05-18-2007, 07:38 PM	#84
Stewart20 My little pain in the ass Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: in my home gym Posts: 2,962 Photos: 2	I'm surprised no one mentioned DB bench as far as "targeting the chest" goes, I think it builds the chest up better than any angle barbell bench.
	http://futuretrainer.blogspot.com/ --My new blog!!

05-18-2007, 08:28 PM	#85
CowPimp Fueled by Testosterone Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 15,428	I don't put much stock in EMG studies, but I think some people deem them a bit more worthless than they are. Nonetheless, the differences that I have seen with regard to the topic at hand are pretty small, and not something I would use EMGs to base my decisions on. Also, to add a thought, even if it were true that certain variations were capable of stimulating contraction of specific portions of a muscle, we have no idea which exercises actually accomplish this anyway. Current suggestions are based on entirely faulty information, and that's if it's even possible.
	The only time it's bad to feel the burn is when you're peeing... CowPimp Picks Up Heavy Shit MySpace YouTube Videos

05-18-2007, 08:40 PM	#86
Leatherface Registered User Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 109	I also find it interesting that these EMG studies are on exercises that most people are strongest in. The two I have seen (Decline Bench and reversegrip chins) allow the lifter to lift more weight than their counterparts (flat/incline bench and wide grip chins) so perhaps THAT accounts for the most activity?
	"Look what your brother did to the door!"

05-19-2007, 04:49 AM	#87
mrmark Londoner Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: London Posts: 999 Photos: 1	So based on what you guys have learnt, is it near impossible to place more emphasis on the clavicular head (upper pec)? Hypothetically, if you could, would it be at such an incline the action would be approaching more of a military press?
	I love it when a plan comes together.