To the trainers

Double D · 05-15-2007, 08:26 PM

To name a few:
P, Duncan, CP, Dale, Pony Boy, Akira (About left you out brother), etc.....

I am curious do you guys train any bodybuilders? If so do they do split routines (Meaning chest one day and back the next, etc....)? If so is there any run of the mill guidline you go by? Like X-amount of set for each bodypart? Of course the loading is always going to be different, but is there some type of guideline for it? Hope I am making sense.

**P-funk** · 05-15-2007, 10:34 PM

day 1- upper horizontal + triceps
off
day 2- lower
off
day 3- upper vertical + biceps
off
off
or

day 1- upper
day 2- lower
day 3- off
day 4- upper
day 5- lower
day 6+7= off

Double D · 05-15-2007, 10:40 PM

Never have any of your clients in bodypart splits? I am trying to make the most sense out of this as I can. I spoke with a good friend today who has been a trainer for about 5 years or so. I dont agree with alot of things he does, he brought up all of this to me today.

Duncans Donuts · 05-15-2007, 10:44 PM

I do something similar to funk, although I don't have any bodybuilder clients (except me and my brother, who use a similar split)

**P-funk** · 05-15-2007, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double D

Never have any of your clients in bodypart splits? I am trying to make the most sense out of this as I can. I spoke with a good friend today who has been a trainer for about 5 years or so. I dont agree with alot of things he does, he brought up all of this to me today.

Nope, for a few reasons:

1) Why waste an entire day to such small muscle groups as arms and shoulders?

2) Unless you are charging $20 a session, who has the money to train 5 days a week with you?

3) Unless the person is hitting the juice, do you really think that someone can optimally recover from 5 training days a week (all high intensity presumably) while in a caloric deficit?

Duncans Donuts · 05-15-2007, 10:56 PM

I started doing "movement" splits about 2 months ago and am very satisfied. The lack of overlap gives me more time to recover "specifically" and although I'm not stronger in some exercises because of fatigue (i.e. military press weakened because of triceps), my progress is just as good if not better.

I used to do body splits and found them much, much more draining. And my intensity level has gone up recently, so I am sold on them. I train my clients in a similar fashion.

Double D · 05-15-2007, 10:56 PM

Good points. Especially the first one!

Double D · 05-15-2007, 10:58 PM

Thanks a bunch. If anyone else does anything different I would like to know. IMO, I always thought just as long as the variables are geared torwards hypertrophy and your exercises were structured to get the most out of each muscle group you should still attain the same goal.

Besdies that I have noticed I am much weaker whenever I train bodyparts.

**P-funk** · 05-15-2007, 10:59 PM

I just don't believe in the body part split because I don't see the body as working in that fashion.

Regardless of what you are training for, the muscles still work in the same way! You have to use a wholistic approach.

I train my clients like I train myself. We use total body workouts or some sort of upper/lower derivation and things workout well.

BB'ers are trying to lose fat for a contest. Losing fat means you need to expend energy. What has more mechanical work.....3 sets of DB curls or 3 sets of chin ups? Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out.

**P-funk** · 05-15-2007, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double D

Thanks a bunch. If anyone else does anything different I would like to know. IMO, I always thought just as long as the variables are geared torwards hypertrophy and your exercises were structured to get the most out of each muscle group you should still attain the same goal.

Besdies that I have noticed I am much weaker whenever I train bodyparts.

get away from the idea of gearing things towards hypertrophy rep ranges. Work on developing both tension work and mechanical work. BB'ers need programming just like everyone else.

Double D · 05-15-2007, 11:02 PM

Yeah that does make more sense.

Double D · 05-15-2007, 11:07 PM

I want to be online whenever you 2 are online all the time. Atleast then I can feel educated from time to time.

Duncans Donuts · 05-15-2007, 11:13 PM

Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgment.

You have the right mind-set. You are doing your best to understand all of the unbelievably complicated variables involved in this and how to apply them specifically. As you get some experience with clients you will steadily come to a more thorough level of understanding. I wish you worked at my gym - as far as any reasonable basis of evaluating a quality trainer goes, you would be in the top 3 out of 30. I can say that because very, very many of the people I work with don't even track the progress of their clients, much less workout with them "progressively".

You are on the right path man.

Double D · 05-15-2007, 11:18 PM

Appreiciate it. I know the guys to listen to and I am chompin at the bit to learn. I was like alot of guys for 2 long who spent their time buying bb'ing mags and reading into the bs for to long! I came here and I got hit in the face with reality. In about a month I will take my NASM test and pass it easily. I took the practice test and got a 89. It was pretty easy, so I should be alright. But I know thats just soemthing to get my foot in the door. Theres some good info in there, but some not so good info as well. You are right on I just got to get some experience and then everything else will work itself out!

NordicNacho · 05-16-2007, 04:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

I just don't believe in the body part split because I don't see the body as working in that fashion.

Regardless of what you are training for, the muscles still work in the same way! You have to use a wholistic approach.

I train my clients like I train myself. We use total body workouts or some sort of upper/lower derivation and things workout well.

BB'ers are trying to lose fat for a contest. Losing fat means you need to expend energy. What has more mechanical work.....3 sets of DB curls or 3 sets of chin ups? Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out.

What about 3 sets of DB curls in the squat rack? Never thought of that? Thats what I thought

**P-funk** · 05-16-2007, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NordicNacho

What about 3 sets of DB curls in the squat rack? Never thought of that? Thats what I thought

that is a good question. I would say because the curls are being done in the squat rack, they probably are going to burn more calories than normal curls done out of the squat rack.

ponyboy · 05-16-2007, 03:01 PM

I don't really train bodybuilders anymore but when I did I followed generally the same principles as Patrick. What I tend to do now with people who work out seriously with weights is find out their lagging areas and I'll work on that with them to up the intensity. Mostly it tends to be legs because nobody likes training legs on their own.

However the majority of my time is spent with injury rehab, sports specific stuff and corrective exercise.

And really, if you want those bicep curls to burn the most calories, you have to do them in a POWER rack.

Duncans Donuts · 05-16-2007, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ponyboy

I don't really train bodybuilders anymore but when I did I followed generally the same principles as Patrick. What I tend to do now with people who work out seriously with weights is find out their lagging areas and I'll work on that with them to up the intensity. Mostly it tends to be legs because nobody likes training legs on their own.

However the majority of my time is spent with injury rehab, sports specific stuff and corrective exercise.

And really, if you want those bicep curls to burn the most calories, you have to do them in a POWER rack.

you guys are dumb. the best curl can only be performed on a smith machine. the fixed range of motion requires you to move the entire machine in an arc, and the weight of the machine is not evenly distributed so it requires the so called "super-balance ancillary muscles" to come into play.

Leatherface · 05-16-2007, 03:53 PM

Quote:

day 1- upper horizontal + triceps
off
day 2- lower
off
day 3- upper vertical + biceps
off
off
or

So does this mean lower body pull and lower body push is done in one workout, once a week P-Funk? Squats and Deadlifts same workout?

Thanks

Double D · 05-16-2007, 06:10 PM

Yes that is what is meant. I know personally I do SLDL's with my squats and have no problem doing so.

PB-Appreciate it buddy, that really helps out.

Fellas what kinds of guys do you have as trainers in your gyms? Alot of the trainers I have talked to dont seem to know jack shit. They got a cert, but it seems like me thats as far as it goes! They got their clients in and out in a matter of 20-30 minutes and they seem to do very little with them. I can see doing something like this with the older population, but this one guy in particular is about 23 years old. I saw him do strictly chest and he was out. The fuckin guy didnt have him warmup other than 1 light bench set and there was no stretch at the end. Of course some clients should be able to do this on their own after a while, but this guy was a fairly new client I was told. Why the fuck do lazy ass people get away with this for?

**P-funk** · 05-16-2007, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leatherface

So does this mean lower body pull and lower body push is done in one workout, once a week P-Funk? Squats and Deadlifts same workout?

Thanks

yes, but I wouldn't do heavy squats and heavy deadlifts in the same day. I also don't back squat and pull from the floor in the same workout. It might be focus on squatting and do some sort of DL derivative (rack pull, RDL, DB RDL, 1-leg RDL, 45 degree hyper bench, etc..).

**P-funk** · 05-16-2007, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double D

Yes that is what is meant. I know personally I do SLDL's with my squats and have no problem doing so.

PB-Appreciate it buddy, that really helps out.

Fellas what kinds of guys do you have as trainers in your gyms? Alot of the trainers I have talked to dont seem to know jack shit. They got a cert, but it seems like me thats as far as it goes! They got their clients in and out in a matter of 20-30 minutes and they seem to do very little with them. I can see doing something like this with the older population, but this one guy in particular is about 23 years old. I saw him do strictly chest and he was out. The fuckin guy didnt have him warmup other than 1 light bench set and there was no stretch at the end. Of course some clients should be able to do this on their own after a while, but this guy was a fairly new client I was told. Why the fuck do lazy ass people get away with this for?

Because most people aren't interested in being a trainer as a profession. It is just like any other day job to them. That and most people are just stupid and never learn past the shit they learn for their crappy certification (if they even really learned that at all)! It is the main reason why this industry is a joke and why I wont call myself a personal trainer.

30min. workouts are okay. I have people that do 30min. sessions. I don't mind it. They show up early to warm up, we train and then they stay after to do their energy system work that I have written out and stretch. It is affordable and it is a quick session. But, it sounds like that trainer is a moron.

Right now, at my facility I am the one in charge of traininer, the minimum qualifications to work here are a BS in an fitness related field (health science, sports med., exercise phys., exercise sci., nutrition, etc..) and CSCS. You also have to have some pretty extensive experience. The min. qualifications for the Physical Therapists here is a Doctorate in Physical therapy (DPT) and CSCS.

Double D · 05-16-2007, 06:36 PM

Nice P! Atleast the people that come there know they are in good hands. I want to know everything! I know its not possible, but I am so fuckin eager.

Ya that trainer is definitly a joke. I could tell just talking with him. Hell as much as I have learned simply studying one cert helps me to trump his knowlege out of the water. He has 3 certs: ACE, ISSA, and another I dont even remember. From what I know the ISSA one isnt completly horrible, but the ACE one is a joke at best.

Stewart14 · 05-16-2007, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double D

Nice P! Atleast the people that come there know they are in good hands. I want to know everything! I know its not possible, but I am so fuckin eager.

Ya that trainer is definitly a joke. I could tell just talking with him. Hell as much as I have learned simply studying one cert helps me to trump his knowlege out of the water. He has 3 certs: ACE, ISSA, and another I dont even remember. From what I know the ISSA one isnt completly horrible, but the ACE one is a joke at best.

I have no clue if this is the case, but I know as a computer guy, that the more certs you have, the more marketable you are regardless of your level of knowledge, which really sucks. I mean, there is the MCSE, then you can get MCPs on every Microsoft product, Network +, etc....and I am sure all things being equal, if I go for a job with less certs than someone else and similar experience, you know who gets the job.

I think if I choose to go the PT route, I would go for one of the big certs, NSCA or NASM, and then go for a couple of the lesser ones like ACE and ISSA, just to make myself more marketable to get my foot in the door

Double D · 05-16-2007, 08:29 PM

I know some places pay you more for the more certs you got. I was thinking Duncan works somewhere like that (or did), I cannot recall.

**P-funk** · 05-16-2007, 09:20 PM

why bother going for the lesser ones? they are a waste of time and money.

Double D · 05-16-2007, 09:22 PM

And to my knowldge ISSA is just as much as the NASM?

**P-funk** · 05-16-2007, 09:25 PM

ISSA is rubbish IMO.

There are three certs IMO:

NSCA
ACSM
NASM (which I still think is a little lame but seems to be pretty respected)

The top to are the most legit as far as I (and most) am concerned.

Double D · 05-16-2007, 09:26 PM

Dont one of those have to hold a degree before you can take it?

**P-funk** · 05-16-2007, 09:28 PM

NSCA-CPT you don't.

CSCS and everything from ACSM you have to have a degree for.

05-15-2007, 08:26 PM	#1
Double D Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 10,459 Photos: 1	To the trainers To name a few: P, Duncan, CP, Dale, Pony Boy, Akira (About left you out brother), etc..... I am curious do you guys train any bodybuilders? If so do they do split routines (Meaning chest one day and back the next, etc....)? If so is there any run of the mill guidline you go by? Like X-amount of set for each bodypart? Of course the loading is always going to be different, but is there some type of guideline for it? Hope I am making sense.

05-15-2007, 10:34 PM	#2
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 31,701	day 1- upper horizontal + triceps off day 2- lower off day 3- upper vertical + biceps off off or day 1- upper day 2- lower day 3- off day 4- upper day 5- lower day 6+7= off E-Book: Take Charge! Everything You Need To Know To Write Your Own Training Programs Online Consulting/Program Design Reality Based Fitness Podcast Check me out on Twitter! Subscribe to our free monthly newsletter! "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

05-15-2007, 10:44 PM	#4
Duncans Donuts Stay puffed, baby. Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: CA Posts: 2,776 Photos: 2	I do something similar to funk, although I don't have any bodybuilder clients (except me and my brother, who use a similar split) "in the howling bleeding nights, the dogs plunge into the Volga and swim desperately to gain the other bank. The nights of Stalingrad are a terror for them. Animals flee this hell; the hardest stones cannot bear it for long; only men endure."

05-15-2007, 10:56 PM	#6
Duncans Donuts Stay puffed, baby. Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: CA Posts: 2,776 Photos: 2	I started doing "movement" splits about 2 months ago and am very satisfied. The lack of overlap gives me more time to recover "specifically" and although I'm not stronger in some exercises because of fatigue (i.e. military press weakened because of triceps), my progress is just as good if not better. I used to do body splits and found them much, much more draining. And my intensity level has gone up recently, so I am sold on them. I train my clients in a similar fashion. "in the howling bleeding nights, the dogs plunge into the Volga and swim desperately to gain the other bank. The nights of Stalingrad are a terror for them. Animals flee this hell; the hardest stones cannot bear it for long; only men endure."

05-15-2007, 10:59 PM	#9
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 31,701	I just don't believe in the body part split because I don't see the body as working in that fashion. Regardless of what you are training for, the muscles still work in the same way! You have to use a wholistic approach. I train my clients like I train myself. We use total body workouts or some sort of upper/lower derivation and things workout well. BB'ers are trying to lose fat for a contest. Losing fat means you need to expend energy. What has more mechanical work.....3 sets of DB curls or 3 sets of chin ups? Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out. E-Book: Take Charge! Everything You Need To Know To Write Your Own Training Programs Online Consulting/Program Design Reality Based Fitness Podcast Check me out on Twitter! Subscribe to our free monthly newsletter! "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

05-15-2007, 10:40 PM	#3
Double D Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 10,459 Photos: 1	Never have any of your clients in bodypart splits? I am trying to make the most sense out of this as I can. I spoke with a good friend today who has been a trainer for about 5 years or so. I dont agree with alot of things he does, he brought up all of this to me today.

05-15-2007, 10:58 PM	#8
Double D Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 10,459 Photos: 1	Thanks a bunch. If anyone else does anything different I would like to know. IMO, I always thought just as long as the variables are geared torwards hypertrophy and your exercises were structured to get the most out of each muscle group you should still attain the same goal. Besdies that I have noticed I am much weaker whenever I train bodyparts.

05-15-2007, 11:02 PM	#11
Double D Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 10,459 Photos: 1	Yeah that does make more sense.

05-15-2007, 11:07 PM	#12
Double D Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 10,459 Photos: 1	I want to be online whenever you 2 are online all the time. Atleast then I can feel educated from time to time.

05-15-2007, 11:13 PM	#13
Duncans Donuts Stay puffed, baby. Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: CA Posts: 2,776 Photos: 2	Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgment. You have the right mind-set. You are doing your best to understand all of the unbelievably complicated variables involved in this and how to apply them specifically. As you get some experience with clients you will steadily come to a more thorough level of understanding. I wish you worked at my gym - as far as any reasonable basis of evaluating a quality trainer goes, you would be in the top 3 out of 30. I can say that because very, very many of the people I work with don't even track the progress of their clients, much less workout with them "progressively". You are on the right path man. "in the howling bleeding nights, the dogs plunge into the Volga and swim desperately to gain the other bank. The nights of Stalingrad are a terror for them. Animals flee this hell; the hardest stones cannot bear it for long; only men endure."

05-15-2007, 11:18 PM	#14
Double D Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 10,459 Photos: 1	Appreiciate it. I know the guys to listen to and I am chompin at the bit to learn. I was like alot of guys for 2 long who spent their time buying bb'ing mags and reading into the bs for to long! I came here and I got hit in the face with reality. In about a month I will take my NASM test and pass it easily. I took the practice test and got a 89. It was pretty easy, so I should be alright. But I know thats just soemthing to get my foot in the door. Theres some good info in there, but some not so good info as well. You are right on I just got to get some experience and then everything else will work itself out!

05-16-2007, 03:01 PM	#17
ponyboy Training Trainer Elite Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Running around somewhere Posts: 2,608 Photos: 1	I don't really train bodybuilders anymore but when I did I followed generally the same principles as Patrick. What I tend to do now with people who work out seriously with weights is find out their lagging areas and I'll work on that with them to up the intensity. Mostly it tends to be legs because nobody likes training legs on their own. However the majority of my time is spent with injury rehab, sports specific stuff and corrective exercise. And really, if you want those bicep curls to burn the most calories, you have to do them in a POWER rack. Today I can do what others will not so that tomorrow I will do what others cannot. The difference between winners and losers is that winners do things that losers don't want to do.

05-16-2007, 06:10 PM	#20
Double D Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 10,459 Photos: 1	Yes that is what is meant. I know personally I do SLDL's with my squats and have no problem doing so. PB-Appreciate it buddy, that really helps out. Fellas what kinds of guys do you have as trainers in your gyms? Alot of the trainers I have talked to dont seem to know jack shit. They got a cert, but it seems like me thats as far as it goes! They got their clients in and out in a matter of 20-30 minutes and they seem to do very little with them. I can see doing something like this with the older population, but this one guy in particular is about 23 years old. I saw him do strictly chest and he was out. The fuckin guy didnt have him warmup other than 1 light bench set and there was no stretch at the end. Of course some clients should be able to do this on their own after a while, but this guy was a fairly new client I was told. Why the fuck do lazy ass people get away with this for?

05-16-2007, 06:36 PM	#23
Double D Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 10,459 Photos: 1	Nice P! Atleast the people that come there know they are in good hands. I want to know everything! I know its not possible, but I am so fuckin eager. Ya that trainer is definitly a joke. I could tell just talking with him. Hell as much as I have learned simply studying one cert helps me to trump his knowlege out of the water. He has 3 certs: ACE, ISSA, and another I dont even remember. From what I know the ISSA one isnt completly horrible, but the ACE one is a joke at best.

05-16-2007, 08:29 PM	#25
Double D Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 10,459 Photos: 1	I know some places pay you more for the more certs you got. I was thinking Duncan works somewhere like that (or did), I cannot recall.

05-16-2007, 09:20 PM	#26
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 31,701	why bother going for the lesser ones? they are a waste of time and money. E-Book: Take Charge! Everything You Need To Know To Write Your Own Training Programs Online Consulting/Program Design Reality Based Fitness Podcast Check me out on Twitter! Subscribe to our free monthly newsletter! "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

05-16-2007, 09:22 PM	#27
Double D Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 10,459 Photos: 1	And to my knowldge ISSA is just as much as the NASM?

05-16-2007, 09:25 PM	#28
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 31,701	ISSA is rubbish IMO. There are three certs IMO: NSCA ACSM NASM (which I still think is a little lame but seems to be pretty respected) The top to are the most legit as far as I (and most) am concerned. E-Book: Take Charge! Everything You Need To Know To Write Your Own Training Programs Online Consulting/Program Design Reality Based Fitness Podcast Check me out on Twitter! Subscribe to our free monthly newsletter! "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

05-16-2007, 09:26 PM	#29
Double D Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 10,459 Photos: 1	Dont one of those have to hold a degree before you can take it?

05-16-2007, 09:28 PM	#30
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 31,701	NSCA-CPT you don't. CSCS and everything from ACSM you have to have a degree for. E-Book: Take Charge! Everything You Need To Know To Write Your Own Training Programs Online Consulting/Program Design Reality Based Fitness Podcast Check me out on Twitter! Subscribe to our free monthly newsletter! "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

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