Is Military Press really needed if chest is trained hard?

Leatherface · 05-20-2007, 07:11 PM

If you train your chest with sufficient intensity, the anterior delts would obviously receive a great deal of stimulation.

Would this then make military presses (from a bodybuilding perspective) somewhat redundant because of their heavy anterior delt involvement? Wouldn't the energy be best suited towards exercises that involve the medial delts like lateral raises or wide grip upright rows?

By the way, I am not on either side of this question, but just thought it would pose a relatively decent topic for discussion.

Double D · 05-20-2007, 07:20 PM

I would never say any exercise should be ruled out. Its all about variation.

TopAdams314 · 05-20-2007, 08:05 PM

Agreed, it's all about variation. If the exercise works, don't throw it out.

**Prince** · 05-20-2007, 08:11 PM

military presses put more stress on the medial head of the delts, not anterior.

Seanp156 · 05-20-2007, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prince

military presses put more stress on the medial head of the delts, not anterior.

That's what I was thinking.

KelJu · 05-20-2007, 08:51 PM

Military press works shoulders more than chest. Why would you throw military press out?

Seanp156 · 05-20-2007, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KelJu

Military press works shoulders more than chest. Why would you throw military press out?

That wasn't the question

.

**CowPimp** · 05-20-2007, 10:15 PM

I actually have a friend who doesn't really do any vertical pressing movements because his chest is average, but his anterior delts develop like mad. Therefore, he focuses more on horizontal pressing movements.

If your goals are purely for building muscle mass, then I think the average person should probably be doing some type of vertical pressing movement(s). However, you are going to have to judge based on the kind of results you get.

Witchblade · 05-21-2007, 10:03 AM

You should have vertical pressing movements for program balance. Overhead pressing is awesome. Saying it's just for the anterior delts is madness, overhead pressing is great for your entire shoulder girlde. The needed stability and the vast amount of muscles involved make the military press one of the best exercises for your shoulders, if not the best. And I'm not even talking about core development here.

Overhead pressing is underrated.

**Gazhole** · 05-21-2007, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Witchblade

You should have vertical pressing movements for program balance. Overhead pressing is awesome. Saying it's just for the anterior delts is madness, overhead pressing is great for your entire shoulder girlde. The needed stability and the vast amount of muscles involved make the military press one of the best exercises for your shoulders, if not the best. And I'm not even talking about core development here.

Overhead pressing is underrated.

Spot on.

Whatever the purpose or goal, the foundation of ANY program is balance.

mrmark · 05-21-2007, 11:02 AM

Not only do I think they are a useful exercise for shoulder development, but I also particularly enjoy doing them.

AKIRA · 05-21-2007, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

I actually have a friend who doesn't really do any vertical pressing movements because his chest is average, but his anterior delts develop like mad. Therefore, he focuses more on horizontal pressing movements.

If your goals are purely for building muscle mass, then I think the average person should probably be doing some type of vertical pressing movement(s). However, you are going to have to judge based on the kind of results you get.

Does he do anything else to compensate the rest of the shoulder?

NordicNacho · 05-21-2007, 11:13 AM

Standing Overhead pressing is underrated.

Brachiisaurus · 05-21-2007, 11:27 AM

I don't do any direct work for the anterior head, because I feel it gets more than enough from training chest.

**CowPimp** · 05-21-2007, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKIRA

Does he do anything else to compensate the rest of the shoulder?

He does a good amount of back work for the posterior delts. I think he may do the occasional overhead press, but he just doesn't need to too much.

Another thing I didn't think of is the advantage of challenging your ability to stabilize a load overhead with military pressing. If you are dealing with a significant amount of weight, then that becomes pretty tough. I remember doing a lockout from about eye level with 205, and having to focus very hard on stabilizing myself so that I didn't fall over, heh.

KelJu · 05-21-2007, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NordicNacho

Standing Overhead pressing is underrated.

Hell yeah it is. I love overhead pressing with a passion. I also get to do them in about an hour. Whoopy, I can't wait!

AKIRA · 05-21-2007, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

Another thing I didn't think of is the advantage of challenging your ability to stabilize a load overhead with military pressing. If you are dealing with a significant amount of weight, then that becomes pretty tough. I remember doing a lockout from about eye level with 205, and having to focus very hard on stabilizing myself so that I didn't fall over, heh.

Fuck yeah it is. Wobbling while trying to keep straight, moving the bar around your face, etc.

I honestly like doing overhead presses a LOT. Id say its a goal of mine to lift 225lbs over my head. I forgot what I maxed out at...195lbs? Prolly coulda done more, by when that shit is going overhead, why try? This is one exercise I dont want to do 1RM with.

In any case, I could never dismiss OH pressing with all the variations. Even for someone that dislikes it, are you going to tell me a fucking lateral raise is more fun? I HATE raises of any kind.

Double D · 05-21-2007, 05:16 PM

I like raises much more, but not for the reason they are good for me. But rather because they are easy.

OH Presses are a damn good exercise, and are fuckin brutal!

**P-funk** · 05-21-2007, 05:17 PM

I think OH pressing is good. Dropping it totally from a program would be only in certain situations. It is impossible to say that "everyone" needs to overhead press since a cookie cutter/one-size-fits all approach is never good.

AKIRA · 05-21-2007, 05:43 PM

P, do you suggest doing OH presses standing 80% of the time vs. seated?

Ive been doing them standing for the longest time, but the other time I did them seated with no pain and I can tell the strength is still there.

Ill still do both and I will do them mostly standing. Whats your opinion?

**P-funk** · 05-21-2007, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKIRA

P, do you suggest doing OH presses standing 80% of the time vs. seated?

Ive been doing them standing for the longest time, but the other time I did them seated with no pain and I can tell the strength is still there.

Ill still do both and I will do them mostly standing. Whats your opinion?

if we do seated it is with DBs only. The BB is to difficult to get in a good pressing motion in a seated position do to the arc you need to create around your head.

I use seated DB presses with people before moving to standing.

AKIRA · 05-21-2007, 05:50 PM

Yeah, I forgot about that arch that comes natural when youre sitting.

Last time Ive done a seated BB was with 185lbs and I HAD to get someone to hand it to me. The racks are behind me...they have to be, and thats a shitty motion to lift that weight from back there into position.

Seated DBs then into standing... for a first time client that CAN do OH presses or do you mean seated then standing as the workout is programmed in that day?

If you do seated DBs, do you switch to barbell when youre standing or do you stay with DBs?

JerseyDevil · 05-21-2007, 05:59 PM

If you talk to old weight lifters from the 50s, they will tell you very few people did bench press. In those days, the gold standard for upper body strength was the OH press.

**P-funk** · 05-21-2007, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKIRA

Yeah, I forgot about that arch that comes natural when youre sitting.

Last time Ive done a seated BB was with 185lbs and I HAD to get someone to hand it to me. The racks are behind me...they have to be, and thats a shitty motion to lift that weight from back there into position.

Seated DBs then into standing... for a first time client that CAN do OH presses or do you mean seated then standing as the workout is programmed in that day?

If you do seated DBs, do you switch to barbell when youre standing or do you stay with DBs?

what do you mean as the workout is programmed that day?

I usually progress in this order:

incline DBs
seatead DBs
standing DBs
alt. standing DBs
1-arm DB

for most people I don't go to the BB press (some people I do, but typically i stick with DBs for the overhead stuff).

Stewart14 · 05-22-2007, 06:19 PM

does anyone consider overhead pressing "functional"? How often in everyday life, or sports for that matter, do you need the ability to be strong over your head? At least in a bench press, or incline press at least, you can apply it to say, playing line in football, or shoving in hockey.

i am sure it is good to do for overall development, but i dont see it as being as functional as other movements.

AKIRA · 05-22-2007, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

what do you mean as the workout is programmed that day?

I usually progress in this order:

incline DBs
seatead DBs followed by
standing DBs
alt. standing DBs
1-arm DB

for most people I don't go to the BB press (some people I do, but typically i stick with DBs for the overhead stuff).

I knew I didnt write that without confusion. I wanted to know if you did 1 then the other in one workout.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stewart20

does anyone consider overhead pressing "functional"? How often in everyday life, or sports for that matter, do you need the ability to be strong over your head? At least in a bench press, or incline press at least, you can apply it to say, playing line in football, or shoving in hockey.

i am sure it is good to do for overall development, but i dont see it as being as functional as other movements.

This may sound like a stupid reason, but I used to love picking up my girlfriends over my head. Theyd lay across my arms and Id throw them around in the pool. I dated a heavier girl and I thought, oh shit, I need to either dump her or lift heavier.

I did both.

ReproMan · 05-22-2007, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKIRA

This may sound like a stupid reason, but I used to love picking up my girlfriends over my head. Theyd lay across my arms and Id throw them around in the pool. I dated a heavier girl and I thought, oh shit, I need to either dump her or lift heavier.

I did both.

Stewart14 · 05-22-2007, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKIRA

This may sound like a stupid reason, but I used to love picking up my girlfriends over my head. Theyd lay across my arms and Id throw them around in the pool. I dated a heavier girl and I thought, oh shit, I need to either dump her or lift heavier.

I did both.

Good shit Akira.....

very functional....

**P-funk** · 05-22-2007, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKIRA

I knew I didnt write that without confusion. I wanted to know if you did 1 then the other in one workout.

This may sound like a stupid reason, but I used to love picking up my girlfriends over my head. Theyd lay across my arms and Id throw them around in the pool. I dated a heavier girl and I thought, oh shit, I need to either dump her or lift heavier.

I did both.

why would I do one and then the other in the same workout? I use them as a progression. One for a few weeks and then the other.

NordicNacho · 05-22-2007, 10:57 PM

standing negatives kill it feels like your whole body is flexing which it probably is.

05-20-2007, 07:11 PM	#1
Leatherface Registered User Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 109	Is Military Press really needed if chest is trained hard? If you train your chest with sufficient intensity, the anterior delts would obviously receive a great deal of stimulation. Would this then make military presses (from a bodybuilding perspective) somewhat redundant because of their heavy anterior delt involvement? Wouldn't the energy be best suited towards exercises that involve the medial delts like lateral raises or wide grip upright rows? By the way, I am not on either side of this question, but just thought it would pose a relatively decent topic for discussion. "Look what your brother did to the door!"

05-20-2007, 08:11 PM	#4
Prince IronMagLabs Owner Administrator Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Colorado Posts: 37,404 Photos: 356	military presses put more stress on the medial head of the delts, not anterior. BOARD SPONSORS: MassNutrition.com - Discount Supplement Superstore IronMagLabs.com - Bodybuilding Nutrition AlltheWhey.com - Bulk Protein Powders & Supplements CEMProducts.com - Research Chemicals & Supplements MusclesProd.com - Steroids, Bodybuilding & Training Blog Maximizer.com - Maximum Strength for Maximum Performance MikeGetsRipped.com - The Original 'Get Ripped' Blog ProteinRoutine.com - Experiments in Healthy Living Follow on Twitter Join Facebook Group Befriend on Myspace

05-20-2007, 10:15 PM	#8
CowPimp Fueled by Testosterone Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 15,615	I actually have a friend who doesn't really do any vertical pressing movements because his chest is average, but his anterior delts develop like mad. Therefore, he focuses more on horizontal pressing movements. If your goals are purely for building muscle mass, then I think the average person should probably be doing some type of vertical pressing movement(s). However, you are going to have to judge based on the kind of results you get. The only time it's bad to feel the burn is when you're peeing... Belligerent Bovine badass YouTube Videos

05-21-2007, 10:03 AM	#9
Witchblade Succinct Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Holland Posts: 4,474 Photos: 2	You should have vertical pressing movements for program balance. Overhead pressing is awesome. Saying it's just for the anterior delts is madness, overhead pressing is great for your entire shoulder girlde. The needed stability and the vast amount of muscles involved make the military press one of the best exercises for your shoulders, if not the best. And I'm not even talking about core development here. Overhead pressing is underrated. My Linkdump [LSFW] IM Official FAQ [WORK IN PROGRESS]

05-21-2007, 11:02 AM	#11
mrmark Londoner Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: London Posts: 999 Photos: 1	Not only do I think they are a useful exercise for shoulder development, but I also particularly enjoy doing them. I love it when a plan comes together.

05-20-2007, 07:20 PM	#2
Double D Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 10,459 Photos: 1	I would never say any exercise should be ruled out. Its all about variation.

05-20-2007, 08:05 PM	#3
TopAdams314 ROFLCopter Trainee Pilot Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 88	Agreed, it's all about variation. If the exercise works, don't throw it out.

05-20-2007, 08:51 PM	#6
KelJu Thats Dr. Keke to you! Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: In my imagination. Posts: 10,160 Photos: 2	Military press works shoulders more than chest. Why would you throw military press out?

05-21-2007, 11:13 AM	#13
NordicNacho Registered User Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 2,425 Photos: 18	Standing Overhead pressing is underrated. http://www.roqofthe80s.com/#

05-21-2007, 11:27 AM	#14
Brachiisaurus Registered User Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 956	I don't do any direct work for the anterior head, because I feel it gets more than enough from training chest.

05-21-2007, 05:16 PM	#18
Double D Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 10,459 Photos: 1	I like raises much more, but not for the reason they are good for me. But rather because they are easy. OH Presses are a damn good exercise, and are fuckin brutal!

05-21-2007, 05:17 PM	#19
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 31,700	I think OH pressing is good. Dropping it totally from a program would be only in certain situations. It is impossible to say that "everyone" needs to overhead press since a cookie cutter/one-size-fits all approach is never good. E-Book: Take Charge! Everything You Need To Know To Write Your Own Training Programs Online Consulting/Program Design Reality Based Fitness Podcast Check me out on Twitter! Subscribe to our free monthly newsletter! "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

05-21-2007, 05:43 PM	#20
AKIRA I am Rollo Tomassee.. Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Outside the box Posts: 8,787 Photos: 3	P, do you suggest doing OH presses standing 80% of the time vs. seated? Ive been doing them standing for the longest time, but the other time I did them seated with no pain and I can tell the strength is still there. Ill still do both and I will do them mostly standing. Whats your opinion? 6' 209lbs (8/16) Bench 365 (12/3) Weighted Pullups 80lbs 3x3 (3/19) Squat 370 Deadlift after herniation 385lbs 3x3 (3/17) NASM certified 2/06 Journal

05-21-2007, 05:50 PM	#22
AKIRA I am Rollo Tomassee.. Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Outside the box Posts: 8,787 Photos: 3	Yeah, I forgot about that arch that comes natural when youre sitting. Last time Ive done a seated BB was with 185lbs and I HAD to get someone to hand it to me. The racks are behind me...they have to be, and thats a shitty motion to lift that weight from back there into position. Seated DBs then into standing... for a first time client that CAN do OH presses or do you mean seated then standing as the workout is programmed in that day? If you do seated DBs, do you switch to barbell when youre standing or do you stay with DBs? 6' 209lbs (8/16) Bench 365 (12/3) Weighted Pullups 80lbs 3x3 (3/19) Squat 370 Deadlift after herniation 385lbs 3x3 (3/17) NASM certified 2/06 Journal

05-21-2007, 05:59 PM	#23
JerseyDevil GO Buckeyes! Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Southern, NJ Posts: 5,586	If you talk to old weight lifters from the 50s, they will tell you very few people did bench press. In those days, the gold standard for upper body strength was the OH press.

05-22-2007, 06:19 PM	#25
Stewart14 Weapon of Choice Elite Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: in my home gym Posts: 3,608 Photos: 2	does anyone consider overhead pressing "functional"? How often in everyday life, or sports for that matter, do you need the ability to be strong over your head? At least in a bench press, or incline press at least, you can apply it to say, playing line in football, or shoving in hockey. i am sure it is good to do for overall development, but i dont see it as being as functional as other movements. http://futuretrainer.blogspot.com/ --My new blog!!

05-22-2007, 10:57 PM	#30
NordicNacho Registered User Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 2,425 Photos: 18	standing negatives kill it feels like your whole body is flexing which it probably is. http://www.roqofthe80s.com/#

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