basic cardio for cutting?

**atom** · 06-10-2007, 03:25 AM

I apologize in advance for the fact that I am a bit of a novice, so if i'm doing something wrong (or screwing up terminology), feel free to let me know. I am trying to be thorough in what I write, to give you background on how I got to where I am, and what my querstion is. The question itself is BOLDED below, in case you want to skim

I have never been athletic at all in my life. Ever. I've always had basically zero muscle mass. I've been vegetarian for 8 yrs, and up until about 1.5yrs ago I would float between high 140's and at most 165. I'm 6'2". (Like I said, NO muscle mass) My occupation involves a lot of sitting in front of a computer.

About a year ago, I tried rock climbing on a whim. I found that I *really* enjoyed it.. despite the fact that I was barely able to hang on to even the easiest (the proper term is "juggy") of holds (think "suitcase handle" or "doorknob"). I basically fell in love with climbing, and started climbing around 2-3x per week. After month or two, I stepped it up to 4-5x week. In the first six months or so, I basically exploded in size. I was around 165 when I started climbing, and I put on at least 20lbs really quickly. My weight held pretty steady at around 185.

Around the turn of the year, I joined a new rock gym that also had a decent selection of freeweights (most gyms if they have any weights at all, they are covered in cobwebs and sitting in a dusty corner) and a "guillotine" looking captive bench/incline/mil press. Since I had put on a ton of weight, and had started to look really disproportionate (at one point my forearms were bigger than my biceps), I decided to start working some muscle groups that climbing doesn't work at all (chest, biceps, etc). My bench started (doing reps of 8) around 130.. and quickly went to 165.. encouraged by this I joined a regular gym and started lifting after I would climb.

Then came the second explosion in weight. I'm now around 205.

I honestly never tried before to be in shape, or go to a gym and get strong because I didn't figure my genetics would allow for it. I am by no means "strong" but I feel friggin *HUGE* compared to how I used to look. It seems like I had all these muscle groups I never used, and within a few weeks of starting to excercise them, each would pack on a few lbs. For instance, my "flies" on the "fly machine" (the chest excercise that is sortof a clapping motion) went from repping 50-60lbs to start, to 3 sets of 140/160 currently.

I'm carrying around 50lbs of weight that I'm not really used to carrying. On one hand, I feel great, cause I am getting stronger every day (previously underworked muscle groups more quickly than the worked ones). On the other hand, my climbing is suffering because I'm not a friggin LOT heavier than is optimal for climbing. The same sized muscles that were hauling me up the wall at 170 or 180 now have to haul 200+lbs up the wall.

I had my BF tested (calipers), and it came out to 18%. I'd guessed it was a bit below 20, so even though calipers are inaccurate (or so I've heard), I believe this to be correct.

I'm carrying more weight than I'd like to, and now my quest to be nicely proportioned has begun to hurt my climbing in a bad way. In some ways I almost want to go back to skinny everything and huge forearms... almost.

I also figure that 18% BF means I'm carrying a total of 40lbs (give or take), at least 20-25 of which I could probably do without.

WORKOUTS:

I climb 4x days/week
I lift 6-7x days/week

For cardio, the gym is 1mi from my house (exactly), so I usually just walk to and from the gym rather than do a treadmill at the gym. This saves on gas, plus you can always get lazy and decide you don't need to do "however long on the treadmill tonight" but it's kindof hard to get lazy when you're a mile from home and there's no way to get back but by foot haha. I have timed myself, and I naturally walk basically 4.0mph. I dunno how much I can believe the calorie counter thingie on the treadmills at the gym (probably not much?) but they claim about 300 calories burned when walking 4.0mph for 15mins (to the gym = 15mins, workout, then walk home for 15 mins).

Do you guys think this cardio is sufficient for cutting? I am hoping to lose somewhere around 5-10lbs/month, although 10 may be unrealistic. I am in a "downtime" period (professionally) right now where I can find the time to workout daily. In about 2.5 months, I have to start travelling abroad again, and things will be very hectic, so I'm trying to use the next 10 weeks to cut as much as possible since I know I won't be able to walk 4mi a day then.

Lately I have been walking to the gym and back without working out (in the middle of the day) and then walking to the gym, working out, then back to my house (at the end of the day), bringing the total daily mileage up to 4mi/day (@4mph).

I know jogging would be more efficient, but honestly I feel like CRAP when I jog. My cardio condition isn't really that great.. mostly due to years of inactivity, plus I have a heart condition (nothing that keeps me from working out.. but essentially my heart doesn't work as efficiently as it should, which is probably part of why I feel like total ass even 30 seconds into jogging). I've been trying to jog the last couple 100yrds of the walk home, with the hope that eventually I will get used to it, and then be able to increase the distance over time.

I don't think you need to know much about my workouts to answer the cutting question, but here is a quick background..

6'2" / 205lbs / 18% BF
Bench: 3-4sets, 8 reps, 200lbs
Incline: 3 sets, 8 reps, 185lbs
Curls: 2-3 sets, 8 reps, 30lbs
Seated row: 8 sets (various grips), 8 reps, 170lbs
Lats: 3 sets, 8 reps, 150lbs
Dips: 3-4 sets, 10 dips (on the parallel bars)
If you need to know any other weights etc, just ask.. there are a bunch more excercises I do, but above probably gives you an idea of my strength levels (or lack thereof)

DIET:

I'm a strict vegetarian. I don't eat any junk (candy, soda, etc). I try to take in between 150 and 200grams a day of protein, this is directly from Soy, wheat gluten, egg whites, whey shakes, and protein bars. I am not a nazi with counting calories, mostly because I don't eat any junk, so I just try to eat the three meals a day, plus maybe a small snack or two (some nuts, a spoonful of peanut butter, whatever). Most days I would guess my intake to be around 2400-2500. I can plan out exact meals and do counting if you guys feel this would be very beneficial.

**Pianomahnn** · 06-10-2007, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by atom

I dunno how much I can believe the calorie counter thingie on the treadmills at the gym (probably not much?) but they claim about 300 calories burned when walking 4.0mph for 15mins (to the gym = 15mins, workout, then walk home for 15 mins).

I refuse to believe that as true. Check out this site for calories burned.

Calories Burned Estimator

**CowPimp** · 06-10-2007, 10:30 PM

First of all, congratulations on making some serious gains. Those are very respectable numbers you have there.

I wouldn't worry about the calorie calculators on the treadmill. They may or may not be accurate for you, and are definitely not accurate if you don't enter you information into the system. Either way, the only thing I would use those counters for is to gauge whether you are doing more work (Like trying to burn more calories in a given time period so that you know you are working harder).

Also, I think you are doing a gross injustice to your physique, and your weight loss efforts, by not doing leg work. Now it's a little tricky with you since you don't want to gain more weight, and your legs will most likely grow under almost any circumstances if you have never worked them out (No, running doesn't count). However, you may have the benefit of doing some recomposition if you closely monitor your caloric intake to insure you don't intake enough calories to grow. Either way, by skipping out on possibly the most metabolically demanding activities, you are probably stifling you ability to cut the fat.

Finally, counting calories is a PITA sometimes, but it's a good idea. If nothing else, you should count them for a few days or a week and average your daily intake so you know about what you are getting. Most people over or underestimate their intake quite a bit. I will warn you though, getting leaner becomes exponentially harder the less fat you have, and counting calories helps a lot. It is absolutely the only way I have ever achieved a lean and somewhat muscular physique.

So, the bottom line:

2-3 days of cardio is probably enough. Don't worry about interval training yet, build a conditioning base first. However, check out interval training once you have laid the foundation (If your heart condition allows for such intensity; consult your physician).

If you want to increase activity levels by just doing a bunch of walking, then that's helpful as well, but you should still try to push the intensity with your cardio.

Lift weights directed at improving your lower body! This will help SOOOO much in terms of improving your physique!

Count calories if you can. It is a tried and true method by countless people, and anything else is just guess work.

**SamEaston** · 06-11-2007, 01:59 AM

I have been using a Polar Heart Rate Monitor for about 6 months, and i was surprised at how inaccurate the gym machines are at predicting calories burned whilst exercising. On average, my monitor displays a quarter to a third less than the machine.

If you need to know exactly the calories you're burning, i would recommend a heart rate monitor. You can get them anywhere, and as far as im concerned, they're invaluable.

Good luck!

**atom** · 06-11-2007, 03:32 PM

Piano -- I'd suspected the treadmill was lying, and the link you provided confirms it. It says more like 115 calories per mile for me. So at 4 miles a day, that works out to ~1lb/week in fat burning (assuming I'm perfectly at maintenance)

CowPimp -- Thanks for the thoughts. You are correct in that I'm not really working my lower body (the exception to this is calves, I work my calves pretty hard, as those are useful for climbing). When I first joined the gym, I would do 2 days of lower body per week.. but I really don't want my legs to get much bigger.. just starting out I could do several sets of leg press at more than twice my weight, which made me feel like my legs were already too strong for my own needs.

I'm a bit confused.. how will lifting weights directed at lower body improve my physique? Do you mean I will just have a more balanced look, or does working those larger muscle groups somehow improve everywhere overall (by raising metabolism or something, i dunno haha)?

You're right, it's probably a good idea if I spend a few days counting my food to make sure I am where I think I am. Although I have no idea what "maintenance" for my weight is, it couldn't hurt to at least be sure if i'm eating 2500 calories or not.

The only thing that is frustrating is that most of my underworked muscle groups added a lot of proportion almost immediately.. for instance I started doing curls (don't laugh!) on 15 or 17.5lb dumbells, and within a few weeks I was doing all my sets on 30lb dumbells (followed by another several sets of various grips on a 60lb barbell). Seeing this kindof improvement.. I'd hoped that "a few weeks later" my biceps would double in strength again (doing curls at 60lbs per arm would make me pretty happy, haha)-- which I'm now realizing isn't going to be the case, haha. So, now that I've been stuck at certain weights for a while, I'm wondering how long it will take before I'm curling 40s, or 45s. Probably 6+ months?

Sam -- Someone mentioned to me the "Bodybugg" by Apex. Supposedly it measures heartrate, accelleration, temperature, and sweating to creating a fairly accurate guess as to calories burned. They aren't cheap ($500), but they seem to go for half that on Ebay. Maybe I'll look into one.

Thanks for the help guys.. I have been lurking these forums a few months, and the knowledge/support here is amazing. Even though my goals are different from many of you guys, I still feel like I've gained a lot by reading through the posts here.

**CowPimp** · 06-11-2007, 11:25 PM

What do you think burns more calories and creates a higher oxygen debt, bench pressing or squatting? Not to mention the higher recruitment of everything in your trunk and your back as a stabilizer.

As well, the metabolic demands of the tissue needed for repair once you finish a tough workout is going to keep your metabolism elevated through a separate mechanism.

**Hoglander** · 06-11-2007, 11:52 PM

Lower the reps and increase the sets on upper body, focus on high intensity on pulling. High reps on the upper legs.. drop to lower reps on the calves with as much weight as you can handle. Construct a peg board with large dowels like:

http://www.bodyweightbasics.com/products/peg_board.html

Keep the diet lean like you have it and run.

My two cents as a 3 year weekend climber.

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