Is 20 pound for the weight like 30 pounds if a guy lifts?

B40 · 07-02-2007, 06:29 PM

I am talking about lifting free weights vs. using a machine.

Guy lifts 30lbs freeweights, girl wants to lift 15 pounds but on a machine. What should the machine weight be so it's the equivolent of 15lbs in freeweights?

tallcall · 07-03-2007, 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B40

I am talking about lifting free weights vs. using a machine.

Guy lifts 30lbs freeweights, girl wants to lift 15 pounds but on a machine. What should the machine weight be so it's the equivolent of 15lbs in freeweights?

Oh, well why didn't you just say that?

If I remember correctly, the cable alleviates about 30% of the total weight (assuming it is a cable and pulley system, levers alleviate a different amount I think, and God help you if it is some combination - because I was never good at calculus). Some manufacturers take this into consideration and label the weights the for the net pound amount being lifted (for lifting15 pounds on the machine they might have used a 45 or 50 pound weight and labeled it 15 pounds - because it is about 30% heavier).

This is the reason that I a.) hate those machines in general, and b.) confuse myself and my trainer since all the machines in my gym use different weight amounts, non standard, so we can't always tell the exact amount of weight we are lifting (

).

I hope my rambling helped some.

FishOrCutBait · 07-03-2007, 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valias

English as a second language?

Plateau_Max · 07-03-2007, 05:54 AM

I was in the doctor's office waiting for my friend and I started reading "hop on pop" a Dr. Suess book.... the title just sounded dirty. Anyway this smokin' hot nurse sees me reading it and I can tell she's amused so I just made eye contact with her and gave one of those expressions towards the book that says "this is a good book" then I went back to reading it.

Next time I go in there I'll confuse her by reading a Quantum Physics book.

juggernaut · 07-03-2007, 08:40 AM

if a tree fell in the forest, and no one was around to hear it, would the toilet water spin the other way?

**P-funk** · 07-03-2007, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tallcall

Oh, well why didn't you just say that?

If I remember correctly, the cable alleviates about 30% of the total weight (assuming it is a cable and pulley system, levers alleviate a different amount I think, and God help you if it is some combination - because I was never good at calculus). Some manufacturers take this into consideration and label the weights the for the net pound amount being lifted (for lifting15 pounds on the machine they might have used a 45 or 50 pound weight and labeled it 15 pounds - because it is about 30% heavier).

This is the reason that I a.) hate those machines in general, and b.) confuse myself and my trainer since all the machines in my gym use different weight amounts, non standard, so we can't always tell the exact amount of weight we are lifting (

).

I hope my rambling helped some.

To hard to tell...every machine is different depending on the manufacture. The weight is going to be dependant on the number of pulley's inside the machine. Also, the age of the machine and the friction created by the cable itself will play a role.

just go in and lift the damn weight and stop worrying about stupid shit.

the nut · 07-03-2007, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B40

I am talking about lifting free weights vs. using a machine.

Guy lifts 30lbs freeweights, girl wants to lift 15 pounds but on a machine. What should the machine weight be so it's the equivolent of 15lbs in freeweights?

How is this relevant to the question?

How about this......
When using machines, what weight would be equivelant to lifting 30 lbs of freeweight?

juggernaut · 07-03-2007, 10:43 AM

hey funk, if you had to use any machine brand what would it be? Hammer Strength, Cybex, Matrix (hate em) or any other?

**P-funk** · 07-03-2007, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juggernaut

hey funk, if you had to use any machine brand what would it be? Hammer Strength, Cybex, Matrix (hate em) or any other?

I use cables.

Sometimes I use Hammer strength (occasionally if I am doing some hypertrophy work). I like most of their pieces.

DanK · 07-03-2007, 11:25 AM

I had a machine that the weight was actually more than the stack itself weighed, particularly at the low end but I'm sure the high end of the stack was significantly heavier (5 lbs = 20 at the low end... the high end was probably off to the tune of 200 lbs = 230 - 240 but I had no way to measure the high end difference).

Now that we know wtf the question is, I still say lynch him!

BTW, if a man wants to use a machine and a woman wants to do free weights, 30 pounds for the man equals pink dumbells for the girl! (bah, I wanted to find a picture of a girl bench pressing a barbell with about 300 lbs of pink weights on it)

tallcall · 07-03-2007, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

To hard to tell...every machine is different depending on the manufacture. The weight is going to be dependant on the number of pulley's inside the machine. Also, the age of the machine and the friction created by the cable itself will play a role.

just go in and lift the damn weight and stop worrying about stupid shit.

Yeah, I forgot about that, my trainer and I were going back and forth on that topic a lot (just for fun really) because we could never really be sure of the weight I was actually lifting and how much was being transferred through the pulleys or levers. Bottom line is that I hate machines in general, cable machines are fine to me, as well as the Smith (for now while I get better at doing free-weight squats)

vinceforheismen · 07-03-2007, 10:58 PM

we are all dumber for reading this..

**P-funk** · 07-03-2007, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tallcall

Yeah, I forgot about that, my trainer and I were going back and forth on that topic a lot (just for fun really) because we could never really be sure of the weight I was actually lifting and how much was being transferred through the pulleys or levers. Bottom line is that I hate machines in general, cable machines are fine to me, as well as the Smith (for now while I get better at doing free-weight squats)

i never met anyone who got better at free squats doing smith machine squats.

to different movements.

if you can't squat your body weight, or holding dumbells, then put a stability ball against the wall and your back against that and start to work on your hip strength in a less stable environment than a smith machine. Once you get strong, move to squatting body weight, then to holding med balls and then a DB (goblet squat). Use isometrics in the bottom position and slow eccentrics to develop strength and learn positioning.

You gotta earn the right to put a bar on your back, as i frequently say to my clients.

B40 · 07-04-2007, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

To hard to tell...every machine is different depending on the manufacture. The weight is going to be dependant on the number of pulley's inside the machine. Also, the age of the machine and the friction created by the cable itself will play a role.

just go in and lift the damn weight and stop worrying about stupid shit.

How about a machine without a pulley? Like a Smith machine? Just curious because I do squats on a Smith machine and squat over my body weight, but am I really accounting for the entire weight, or does the machine make it a bit lighter?

tallcall · 07-04-2007, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

i never met anyone who got better at free squats doing smith machine squats.

to different movements.

if you can't squat your body weight, or holding dumbells, then put a stability ball against the wall and your back against that and start to work on your hip strength in a less stable environment than a smith machine. Once you get strong, move to squatting body weight, then to holding med balls and then a DB (goblet squat). Use isometrics in the bottom position and slow eccentrics to develop strength and learn positioning.

You gotta earn the right to put a bar on your back, as i frequently say to my clients.

I've done all of that fine, with the medicine ball and dumbbells, but I've always had a major fear of falling. My balance is awful sometimes because of the Tourette Syndrome. During the free weight squats I jerked my neck (because of the Tourettes - happens hundreds of times every day) - it is almost always a forward and downward movement - and almost fell forward with the weight, I felt completely helpless. There isn't anything I can do (no medicine short of slowing my heart rate or putting me to sleep all the time - I had very bad reactions to all the popular medications out there so I stopped taking them and decided to live with the symptoms) to prevent that except maybe concentrate on staying balanced.

It really scared me, but sometimes I just need a few practice sets to get the movement down, so maybe by the time I do them again I'll be a little better off (I swear this has happened with almost every other standing exercise including lunges - still can't balance on those and think I'm going to fall over each time, but I keep doing them).

goob · 07-04-2007, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juggernaut

if a tree fell in the forest, and no one was around to hear it, would the toilet water spin the other way?

Yes, for the japanese tourist in Australia.

juggernaut · 07-04-2007, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goob

Yes, for the japanese tourist in Australia.

ah but what about the trash collector in Maine while falling over a cubicle?

07-03-2007, 05:54 AM	#124
Plateau_Max I enjoy SkyDiving Elite Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wichita, KS Posts: 865	I was in the doctor's office waiting for my friend and I started reading "hop on pop" a Dr. Suess book.... the title just sounded dirty. Anyway this smokin' hot nurse sees me reading it and I can tell she's amused so I just made eye contact with her and gave one of those expressions towards the book that says "this is a good book" then I went back to reading it. Next time I go in there I'll confuse her by reading a Quantum Physics book.
	"Years of hard work for only a single moment of perfection is a worthy trade." - Myself

07-03-2007, 08:40 AM	#125
juggernaut hybrid of machine & skin Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Mars Posts: 4,129 Photos: 2	if a tree fell in the forest, and no one was around to hear it, would the toilet water spin the other way?
	Eat well, train daily, die anyway.

07-03-2007, 10:43 AM	#128
juggernaut hybrid of machine & skin Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Mars Posts: 4,129 Photos: 2	hey funk, if you had to use any machine brand what would it be? Hammer Strength, Cybex, Matrix (hate em) or any other?
	Eat well, train daily, die anyway.

07-03-2007, 11:25 AM	#130
DanK Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Missouri Posts: 196	I had a machine that the weight was actually more than the stack itself weighed, particularly at the low end but I'm sure the high end of the stack was significantly heavier (5 lbs = 20 at the low end... the high end was probably off to the tune of 200 lbs = 230 - 240 but I had no way to measure the high end difference). Now that we know wtf the question is, I still say lynch him! BTW, if a man wants to use a machine and a woman wants to do free weights, 30 pounds for the man equals pink dumbells for the girl! (bah, I wanted to find a picture of a girl bench pressing a barbell with about 300 lbs of pink weights on it)
	Dandelion Games - Dandelion Games include Block Insanity, 3D Breakout, Firecracker... None of these games will make you faster, stronger, leaner, or help you in any way, what they will do is make you choke yourself with boredom. UPDATE Block Insanity may entertain you, and quite possibly if played rigorously for 20 minutes a day, may assist in weight loss, so try it damn it!

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07-02-2007, 06:29 PM	#121
B40 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 22 Photos: 1	I am talking about lifting free weights vs. using a machine. Guy lifts 30lbs freeweights, girl wants to lift 15 pounds but on a machine. What should the machine weight be so it's the equivolent of 15lbs in freeweights?

07-03-2007, 10:58 PM	#132
vinceforheismen Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 397	we are all dumber for reading this..