Thread: Machines only, when i first start woking out?

Yes, you're correct.

In fact, even when you're not a beginner you should spend most if not all your time on free weights. Ive used machines about a dozen times in my entire 4 years of training.

Free weights > machines 99% of the time.

If you have no idea about training and are an utter beginer or have no real significant muscle mass, listen to him, do what he sais.

Yet make it clear you'd like to try free weights - do it with someone there to help.

Honestly I only suggest people use machines first starting out if they have a weak core strength (and yes I gauge it through tests) and only if I'm not there to train them. I have set up program for people to follow that don't live near me and I just like them to start off with machines for the first few weeks just to get them used to lifting in general. Then I'll get them off the machines and on to the free weights to encourage better use of the stabilizing muscles and core. Also during the first weeks while on machines I have them doing core specific exercises. If I'm there to train them I'll usually start with free weights even still because I'm right there to make sure they're doing everything properly and safely.

Keep in mind for all of this, I am talking about training all out beginners with very little to no lifting experience at all and I could tell they needed some "intro" work. Any good trainer doesn't have a blanket guideline for everyone. Heck I had a guy who never lifted weights before in his life but he was a mason for 10 years and had the strongest core I'd seen for a guy who'd never gone to the gym. Everything needs to be 100% personalized.

Originally Posted by Plateau_Max

Honestly I only suggest people use machines first starting out if they have a weak core strength (and yes I gauge it through tests) and only if I'm not there to train them. I have set up program for people to follow that don't live near me and I just like them to start off with machines for the first few weeks just to get them used to lifting in general. Then I'll get them off the machines and on to the free weights to encourage better use of the stabilizing muscles and core. Also during the first weeks while on machines I have them doing core specific exercises. If I'm there to train them I'll usually start with free weights even still because I'm right there to make sure they're doing everything properly and safely.

Keep in mind for all of this, I am talking about training all out beginners with very little to no lifting experience at all and I could tell they needed some "intro" work. Any good trainer doesn't have a blanket guideline for everyone. Heck I had a guy who never lifted weights before in his life but he was a mason for 10 years and had the strongest core I'd seen for a guy who'd never gone to the gym. Everything needs to be 100% personalized.

I have not lifted weights in over a week (surgery), and am in need of a beginner core workout. Any way you could give me maybe just an example of what you would have a beginner do maybe with free weights or on the machines to build the core and work your way out.

I have lost considerable amounts of muscle (lack of lifting b/c of surgery) and body fat, for I have modified and cleaned my diet (not eating as much), but I do a shit load of activities during the day like basketball, HIIT, and swimming. I get at least 2 hours in of those activities.

I don't think starting on machines is a very good idea. It isn't going to help you a whole lot once you start moving to freeweights. However, I can see using machines if you are not comfortable with freeweight exercises without supervision.

Yeah the supervision thing is exactly what I mean. I have friends back home in california asking for advice, and a couple guys at various air force bases that want some basic programs so I just don't feel very confident giving them a lot of freeweight work to do right away 'cause I'm not there to make sure they're doing it right.

Freeweight work can be borderline dangerous at times if you're doing them wrong.

Zonaguy what kind of workouts did you do before your surgery? If you're looking for some core specific workouts remember the basics like planking, slow (weighted optional) situps, and then doing things like pullups in place of lat pulldowns which require you to stabilize your body through the movements. Even just doing things like curls while standing up will help your core. Also keep in mind there are many standard weight lifting exercises that work your core well, like squats for example.

Originally Posted by Plateau_Max

Yeah the supervision thing is exactly what I mean. I have friends back home in california asking for advice, and a couple guys at various air force bases that want some basic programs so I just don't feel very confident giving them a lot of freeweight work to do right away 'cause I'm not there to make sure they're doing it right.

Freeweight work can be borderline dangerous at times if you're doing them wrong.

Zonaguy what kind of workouts did you do before your surgery? If you're looking for some core specific workouts remember the basics like planking, slow (weighted optional) situps, and then doing things like pullups in place of lat pulldowns which require you to stabilize your body through the movements. Even just doing things like curls while standing up will help your core. Also keep in mind there are many standard weight lifting exercises that work your core well, like squats for example.

I intervaled between full body training at high intensity/low rest 4 x a week, and doing a back/bi's day(s), chest/tri's day(s), shoulders/leg day(s).

Core exercises include: planks, side planks, reverse crunch, squat, shoulder press (barbell). I don't do sit ups, apparently they are just a waste of energy, just need to cut some of that access fat to get the abdominal show.

I haven't attempted pull ups, and have been doing lat. pulldowns, DB rows/cable rows for back. What would be a good goal to reach on the reps of pull ups I need to get up to? Also if you have any other core workouts maybe with a stability ball that would be helpful and if not just say "DONT DO IT". Either way, your help is big time.


I start at the gym tomorrow morning bright and early at 6 A.M. and probably am going to do two-a-days (1 lift at 6 a.m, get a few meals in me, then head back and do some cardio, maybe some HIIT with some full ct. basketball shooting). I have been doing cardio throughout the week so I do not believe I will burn myself out. IM ready to get this done.

Machines first with fast gains, easy fast and nice. When things get stale move to free weights, more gains more motivation.....you're hooked. : ).

it's a terrible idea to start with machines. You could potentially have lots of problems when you move to freeweights because of the lack of core strength and stability. Planks and weighted situps can only prepare you so much for squats and deadlifts.

And machines suck ass anyways. I use em 0% of the time.

started my training yesterday...just went back to what I was doing which was full body training, four sets per body part, no rests in between sets. The only "machine" i used was the cable row machine.

cool thanks for all the replys guys.

Originally Posted by CowPimp

I don't think starting on machines is a very good idea. It isn't going to help you a whole lot once you start moving to freeweights. However, I can see using machines if you are not comfortable with freeweight exercises without supervision.

See, I was waiting for you or P to chime in on this one...

Another thread made me wonder about getting and keeping clients when it came to machine usage.

Have you ever encountered clients at the gym that are shopping for a good trainer.. They chose you first due to availability, recommended, whatever, and you get them into a compound freeweight session. Because the freeweight session is awkward, just cuz the whole exercise idea is new to them, they shop for another trainer. When they try out another trainer, this new trainer gets them on the machines. Because its not as demanding as freeweights, this new client is convinced that machines are better. Theyd even have more sore muscles to boot...

Normally, Id automatically say oh well for that client, but I wonder if this shit really sells....

In other words, you have 10 clients that are getting great workouts.
The latter has 20 clients but are having 'easier' workouts.

Bare in mind, I dont agree, but people are always looking for the easy way out..

Maybe I'm alone on this but I just don't get as enthusiastic when I'm using a machine. It's probably a mental thing, but I would so much rather pick up a hundred pounds of iron than set a pin on a machine for 100 and do the same motion. That and the stabilizer and core work is so beneficial.

yea i decided to drop this trainer, not because he put me on machines to start, but he didnt really show much interest and i just felt like he was in it for the money. The day i met him he was showing me exercises and talking to people while i was on the machines and just not looking like he was into it. Im not sure if this was because i didnt give him any money towards it yet or what. I wasnt to impressed and if you want train some one and get them under your belt before they pay shouldnt you show more interest, ask questions and watch their form when doing an exercise? He also didnt ask me about what my goals were or anythin. I talked to him for about 5 min. (about where im from, how old i am etc.) and then we went on the machines.

I have decided im going to train myself and just read up on what to do and what not to do to get good form on each exercise.

What does everyone think?

When I first started working out when I was about 15, My trainer had me doing free weights. She had me doing simple but effective exercises that she could add challenges too, like step ups, lunges, wall squats, and interval training. We trained in her basement and all she had was free weights and a couple pieces of cardio equipment. It was a good, fun introduction into fitness

Originally Posted by AKIRA

See, I was waiting for you or P to chime in on this one...

Another thread made me wonder about getting and keeping clients when it came to machine usage.

Have you ever encountered clients at the gym that are shopping for a good trainer.. They chose you first due to availability, recommended, whatever, and you get them into a compound freeweight session. Because the freeweight session is awkward, just cuz the whole exercise idea is new to them, they shop for another trainer. When they try out another trainer, this new trainer gets them on the machines. Because its not as demanding as freeweights, this new client is convinced that machines are better. Theyd even have more sore muscles to boot...

Normally, Id automatically say oh well for that client, but I wonder if this shit really sells....

In other words, you have 10 clients that are getting great workouts.
The latter has 20 clients but are having 'easier' workouts.

Bare in mind, I dont agree, but people are always looking for the easy way out..

Well, my gym has virtually no machines. We still manage to do quite well overall, though some trainers admittedly spend less time getting people to use proper form than others.

Anyway, if you take the time to explain the benefit of freeweights and spend the prerequisite time ensuring proper form, then people will be okay with it in general.

If someone is going to give up because it is too hard, then do you really want them as your client anyway? I wouldn't.

I've had clients complain in the past about me spending too much time on a certain exercise and it's proper form. Some people are just ignorant and don't give a shit. If you are in a position to drop clients and can afford to do so, and only want to work with the creme of the crop then by all means. Some of us just have to compromise a little and work on their form a little at a time.

Oh and my studio has 0 machines.

Originally Posted by PWGriffin

I've had clients complain in the past about me spending too much time on a certain exercise and it's proper form. Some people are just ignorant and don't give a shit. If you are in a position to drop clients and can afford to do so, and only want to work with the creme of the crop then by all means. Some of us just have to compromise a little and work on their form a little at a time.

Oh and my studio has 0 machines.

Well, I train them by having them do what they need, pretty much. Yes, I compromise too, but I'm not going to have someone do something that hurts them just because they lack patience.

Originally Posted by PWGriffin

it's a terrible idea to start with machines. You could potentially have lots of problems when you move to freeweights because of the lack of core strength and stability. Planks and weighted situps can only prepare you so much for squats and deadlifts.

And machines suck ass anyways. I use em 0% of the time.

Dead lifts, are they really important to people that want just to get in shape??

Originally Posted by Hoglander

Dead lifts, are they really important to people that want just to get in shape??

There is no exercise that is must have, but if there was, then this would be one of my top choices.

At 22 I can appreciate your enthusiasm. By the time you are 40 you will show signs of osteoarthritis in your joints. It's a fact of life for even people that don't work out. I too liked them at 22. At 43 I take great care with my lower back. I see your point I really do but.....

Originally Posted by Hoglander

At 22 I can appreciate your enthusiasm. By the time you are 40 you will show signs of osteoarthritis in your joints. It's a fact of life for even people that don't work out. I too liked them at 22. At 43 I take great care with my lower back. I see your point I really do but.....

If anything deadlifts can support a healthy lower back when done properly. putting an external load on any joint can promote healthy bone density and increase the strength of all the associated ligaments and tendons.

Worried about your back? Make it stronger...baby it, and it will get weak, and then come the problems.

And just because you started showing signs of arthritis doesn't mean that we all will, or even that it was caused by lifting weights.

Originally Posted by Hoglander

Oh and my studio has 0 machines.

Ok am I the only god damn person that has never even SEEN a gym with no machines?

Originally Posted by Hoglander

At 22 I can appreciate your enthusiasm. By the time you are 40 you will show signs of osteoarthritis in your joints. It's a fact of life for even people that don't work out. I too liked them at 22. At 43 I take great care with my lower back. I see your point I really do but.....

People that work out with proper form are less prone to injury than those that dont work out. Thats why an "Active lifestyle is a healthy lifestyle."

Also people will atest to the fact that when they find themselves sitting most of the day, their lower back will hurt more than a day of standing or lifting.

I can see where someone in their 40s if never having done strength training before can attest to the dangers of doing things like deadlifts... but it's a different kind of danger. It's not the deadlifts themselves that put your lower back in jepordy, it's the fact that at a higher age it's much easier to overdo it.

P-Dub I see where you're coming from on the whole core strength and stability issues with using machines. I totally agree. This is why I only let people use machines if I'm not there to train with them, but will emphasize core specific exercises. The thing with core specific exercises is there aren't just a couple, there are SEVERAL core specific exercises you have to do and I will have them do certain ones each day as well as dedicate an entire day to them.

As an Air Force fitness trainer (which isn't all that special really) I have some leeway with people doing things properly but the fact that I'm dedicated at budding into a NASM CPT and hopefully CSCS the idea of someone either hurting themselves or being too weak to do certain things like squats and deadlifts when the time comes to move on to them - then getting discouraged and quitting... is very important to me. Even with beginners that ARE starting in with free weights I always spend a great deal of time explaining core strength and the benefit of plyometric vs dynamic stabilization, etc.

hoglander a big thing about trainers training people instead of learning to train yourself, you'll find any good trainer is going to be very aware of the vulnerabilities associated with age. There was a thread recently where we all got into a discussion about strengthening your bones with weight training but I can't think of it right now, it's true though you'll actually be preventing back problems with things like deadlifts because of having both stronger bones and stronger muscles.

Originally Posted by CowPimp

There is no exercise that is must have, but if there was, then this would be one of my top choices.

Agreed. i remember Arnie once said that it was a cruel sadistic person who invented the deadlift but it seperates the men from the boys. I personally hate it but i do them cos he is right, there are great.

Originally Posted by Plateau_Max

P-Dub I see where you're coming from on the whole core strength and stability issues with using machines. I totally agree. This is why I only let people use machines if I'm not there to train with them, but will emphasize core specific exercises. The thing with core specific exercises is there aren't just a couple, there are SEVERAL core specific exercises you have to do and I will have them do certain ones each day as well as dedicate an entire day to them.

I totally understand. I hate telling girls, for instance, what exercises they should be doing without actually training them. I avoid it at all costs...

But in a perfect world...a person should start and stay with freeweights.

I don't care for machines because they only work on a two-dimensional plane which is unnatural for the human body. I would only use them if I were working around an injury.