Which is a better indication of raw strength? A big bench or big deadlift?

juggernaut2005 · 06-27-2007, 06:20 AM

Which?

Double D · 06-27-2007, 06:27 AM

A big squat!

Witchblade · 06-27-2007, 07:48 AM

Deadlift, then squat, then bench.

juggernaut2005 · 06-27-2007, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Witchblade

Deadlift, then squat, then bench.

Thats what I thought.. Just double checking

DOMS · 06-27-2007, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double D

A big squat!

I'll second this.

**P-funk** · 06-27-2007, 08:12 AM

which is better, an apple or a pear?

StanUk · 06-27-2007, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

which is better, an apple or a pear?

Definatly an apple.

Witchblade · 06-27-2007, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

which is better, an apple or a pear?

The deadlift uses more muscles so it's a better indicator of total body strength, no?

KelJu · 06-27-2007, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Witchblade

The deadlift uses more muscles so it's a better indicator of total body strength, no?

I think a guy that can squat 400lbs is just as impressive as a guy that can deadlift 400lbs.

I personally think squats are more important, but that is strictly opinion.

In all actuality, deadlifts and squats are probablly equal indicators of total strength.

**CowPimp** · 06-27-2007, 10:04 AM

I would say a deadlift, but I see P's point, they test the strength of totally different muscle groups using completely different motor programs.

**P-funk** · 06-27-2007, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

I would say a deadlift, but I see P's point, they test the strength of totally different muscle groups using completely different motor programs.

yea, not only that....but also, the exercise that is the best indicator of strength is going to be dependant on the person....different levers and biomechanics. Some may just be buit to squat (or deadlift). So, is their overal strength better than someone who has poor levers? Maybe that individual is better in a different exercise, etc.

There is to much going on to say "which is a better indicator of strength."

**Gazhole** · 06-27-2007, 10:10 AM

Logically, a big Deadlift only gives you an indication of how strong somebody is...at Deadlifting.

You could have a great Deadlift and a sucky Bench, or a great Bench and a sucky Deadlift. Who is stronger? Its not answerable.

Personally though, i agree that Deadlift is a much harder movement than bench, but even if somebody doesnt Deadlift you cant deny they are strong as hell if they can bench 500lbs or something.

Everything is relative.

DEADLIFTS FTW.

StanUk · 06-27-2007, 10:12 AM

Were talking about RAW strength here though, so I would have to go with deadlift. A good squat requires a lot more technique/flexibility/balance than a deadlift. A deadlift is just lifting a dead weight off the floor, and although it requires good form to prevent yourself from injuries it is pretty much the easiest compound lift someone can do.

DOMS · 06-27-2007, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

I would say a deadlift, but I see P's point, they test the strength of totally different muscle groups using completely different motor programs.

I just think it takes more moxy to put the weight on your back instead of just picking it up off the floor.

Yeah, I've wandered into the realm of opinion...

juggernaut2005 · 06-27-2007, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

which is better, an apple or a pear?

I know what you're saying that these are two diff exercises that utilize two different muscles etc; but surely one of them has to be a better indication of overall raw strength?

**P-funk** · 06-27-2007, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juggernaut2005

I know what you're saying that these are two diff exercises that utilize two different muscles etc; but surely one of them has to be a better indication of overall raw strength?

well then, how the heck can you compare the bench press to anything? It is a totally supported lift. You lie on a bench and press.

DOMS · 06-27-2007, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

well then, how the heck can you compare the bench press to anything? It is a totally supported lift. You lie on a bench and press.

Exactly. I don't think the Bench holds a candle to Deads or Squats.

juggernaut2005 · 06-27-2007, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

well then, how the heck can you compare the bench press to anything? It is a totally supported lift. You lie on a bench and press.

OK, if you walk into a gym and see 3 guys lifting 500lbs raw, one is benching the forementioned weight, the other is squating and the last is deadlifting.. Why would you say 'damn he is strong' to?

**P-funk** · 06-27-2007, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juggernaut2005

OK, if you walk into a gym and see 3 guys lifting 500lbs raw, one is benching the forementioned weight, the other is squating and the last is deadlifting.. Why would you say 'damn he is strong' to?

walk into any gym and you will find that 90% of the guys can bench more than they squat or deadlift....some can even bench in the 300s yet struggle with the mid 200s in the squat.

Why would I automactically guess that the person with the big bench press has the greatest overal strength?

juggernaut2005 · 06-27-2007, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

walk into any gym and you will find that 90% of the guys can bench more than they squat or deadlift....some can even bench in the 300s yet struggle with the mid 200s in the squat.

Why would I automactically guess that the person with the big bench press has the greatest overal strength?

That wasn't my question and I never said you should automatically assume?

**P-funk** · 06-27-2007, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juggernaut2005

That wasn't my question and I never said you should automatically assume?

Okay, then I would say:

"Damn, he is a strong presser."

juggernaut2005 · 06-27-2007, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

Okay, then I would say:

"Damn, he is a strong presser."

Aha.. So you think the bench presser is the stronger of the 3?? Thats all I was asking, thanks P-funk!

**P-funk** · 06-27-2007, 10:37 AM

I said he was a strong presser. I didn't say that I thought he was the strongest overal....or what I would call "cock strong"

I don't know where you are going with this.

shiznit2169 · 06-27-2007, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juggernaut2005

That wasn't my question and I never said you should automatically assume?

Look at it this way

Squat - Loading the bar on your back and squatting ATG and back up
Deadlift - Pulling raw from the floor with your hands only
Bench - Lying on a bench (which is supporting you) and pressing the bar

If i were to choose, i'd have to go with squats. With the bench and deadlift, people are prone to cheat such as arching their back or using sloppy form to complete the lift. Squats is basically the only true form of testing your overall strength without using gear of course but that is not to take anything away from someone who does bench/deadlift a lot of weight cus it's still impressive.

I'm just saying if i were to walk into a gym, i'd be more impressed with someone squatting 400 lbs ATG with flawless form as opposed to someone benching 450-500 lbs.

StanUk · 06-27-2007, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shiznit2169

Look at it this way

Squat - Loading the bar on your back and squatting ATG and back up
Deadlift - Pulling raw from the floor with your hands only
Bench - Lying on a bench (which is supporting you) and pressing the bar

If i were to choose, i'd have to go with squats. With the bench and deadlift, people are prone to cheat such as arching their back or using sloppy form to complete the lift. Squats is basically the only true form of testing your overall strength without using gear of course but that is not to take anything away from someone who does bench/deadlift a lot of weight cus it's still impressive.

I'm just saying if i were to walk into a gym, i'd be more impressed with someone squatting 400 lbs ATG with flawless form as opposed to someone benching 450-500 lbs.

Were talking RAW strength though, you've even said in your deadlift description that your pulling "RAW" from the floor.

shiznit2169 · 06-27-2007, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StanUk

Were talking RAW strength though, you've even said in your deadlift description that your pulling "RAW" from the floor.

I am talking about raw strength for every lift. I never mentioned any gear in my post. I am saying most people have the tendency to cheat such as use momentum or arch their back in the deadlift/bench whereas you can't really cheat doing squats assuming you go ATG.

StanUk · 06-27-2007, 10:47 AM

I guess it all depends on how you define "raw".

juggernaut2005 · 06-27-2007, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shiznit2169

Look at it this way

Squat - Loading the bar on your back and squatting ATG and back up
Deadlift - Pulling raw from the floor with your hands only
Bench - Lying on a bench (which is supporting you) and pressing the bar

If i were to choose, i'd have to go with squats. With the bench and deadlift, people are prone to cheat such as arching their back or using sloppy form to complete the lift. Squats is basically the only true form of testing your overall strength without using gear of course but that is not to take anything away from someone who does bench/deadlift a lot of weight cus it's still impressive.

I'm just saying if i were to walk into a gym, i'd be more impressed with someone squatting 400 lbs ATG with flawless form as opposed to someone benching 450-500 lbs.

Thank you for your input!! But I would say thought that sloppy form also exists in squats

Witchblade · 06-27-2007, 12:41 PM

I look at it this way. 'An indication of raw strength' means you should be able to guess a person's overall strength by the number they lift on that lift alone. A big bench obviously doesn't mean much, because a lot of people neglect their legs.
The squat means a lot more, but maybe they lack flexibility so they could actually move a lot more weight if they were more flexible. Also, you can't tell how deep they're going. Lastly, you don't know much about their back strength or their grip strength.
Ergo, deadlifts are king. Highest force output, most muscles involved, no way to cheat on ROM.

Anyway, the point really is moot.

AKIRA · 06-27-2007, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StanUk

Definatly an apple.

Oh of course. Reminds me of a fucking great tight ass. I saw the best body in my gym today...where the fuck did she come from.

Oh...deadlift.

06-27-2007, 06:20 AM	#1
juggernaut2005 The F.u.t.u.r.e Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: MA Posts: 617	Which is a better indication of raw strength? A big bench or big deadlift? Which?

06-27-2007, 07:48 AM	#3
Witchblade Succinct Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Holland Posts: 4,474 Photos: 2	Deadlift, then squat, then bench. My Linkdump [LSFW] IM Official FAQ [WORK IN PROGRESS]

06-27-2007, 08:12 AM	#6
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 31,700	which is better, an apple or a pear? E-Book: Take Charge! Everything You Need To Know To Write Your Own Training Programs Online Consulting/Program Design Reality Based Fitness Podcast Check me out on Twitter! Subscribe to our free monthly newsletter! "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

06-27-2007, 10:04 AM	#10
CowPimp Fueled by Testosterone Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 15,615	I would say a deadlift, but I see P's point, they test the strength of totally different muscle groups using completely different motor programs. The only time it's bad to feel the burn is when you're peeing... Belligerent Bovine badass YouTube Videos

06-27-2007, 10:10 AM	#12
Gazhole iwillmakeyousmelltheglove Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Wales, UK Posts: 7,999 Photos: 19	Logically, a big Deadlift only gives you an indication of how strong somebody is...at Deadlifting. You could have a great Deadlift and a sucky Bench, or a great Bench and a sucky Deadlift. Who is stronger? Its not answerable. Personally though, i agree that Deadlift is a much harder movement than bench, but even if somebody doesnt Deadlift you cant deny they are strong as hell if they can bench 500lbs or something. Everything is relative. DEADLIFTS FTW. http://sdatrainingprograms.blogspot.com - Updated 13/11/09 ***READ THIS FOR TRAINING INFO:*** http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/training/99879-articles-ironmagazineforums-members.html If you want to win the fight, say "I BELIEVE".

06-27-2007, 06:27 AM	#2
Double D Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 10,459 Photos: 1	A big squat!

06-27-2007, 10:12 AM	#13
StanUk Light weight! Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: In a galaxy far far away Posts: 683 Photos: 1	Were talking about RAW strength here though, so I would have to go with deadlift. A good squat requires a lot more technique/flexibility/balance than a deadlift. A deadlift is just lifting a dead weight off the floor, and although it requires good form to prevent yourself from injuries it is pretty much the easiest compound lift someone can do.

06-27-2007, 10:37 AM	#23
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 31,700	I said he was a strong presser. I didn't say that I thought he was the strongest overal....or what I would call "cock strong" I don't know where you are going with this. E-Book: Take Charge! Everything You Need To Know To Write Your Own Training Programs Online Consulting/Program Design Reality Based Fitness Podcast Check me out on Twitter! Subscribe to our free monthly newsletter! "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

06-27-2007, 10:47 AM	#27
StanUk Light weight! Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: In a galaxy far far away Posts: 683 Photos: 1	I guess it all depends on how you define "raw".

06-27-2007, 12:41 PM	#29
Witchblade Succinct Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Holland Posts: 4,474 Photos: 2	I look at it this way. 'An indication of raw strength' means you should be able to guess a person's overall strength by the number they lift on that lift alone. A big bench obviously doesn't mean much, because a lot of people neglect their legs. The squat means a lot more, but maybe they lack flexibility so they could actually move a lot more weight if they were more flexible. Also, you can't tell how deep they're going. Lastly, you don't know much about their back strength or their grip strength. Ergo, deadlifts are king. Highest force output, most muscles involved, no way to cheat on ROM. Anyway, the point really is moot. My Linkdump [LSFW] IM Official FAQ [WORK IN PROGRESS]

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